Salvage: Silver Sea Remnants

[Muze]

Just won with 9 members. Dropped Ea's Brais x2.

EDIT: Posted an entry about the run. The basics were we went with... MNK MNK NIN BRD RDM BLM RNG RNG RNG. The main source of damage on the boss were the 3 RNGs. The key difference in our attempt from others was that we had no intention of killing it in 1 rush. We simply did what we could, had 2 members sac it with bio2 and poison2 to prevent HP recovery, then went back 5 minutes later for another damage rush. Pretty brutally efficient with 3 RNG/WARs.

Also the reason you cannot sleep anyone charmed by Brainjack is it's also 4hp/tick DoT in addition to charm.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/4934.html

Nice info. Just a few questions:

I'm assuming that the RNGs went all out with their attack (slug > barrage > ees etc) in succession. I'm curious as to how they stayed alive in all of this especially while zerked and no shadows. HP cells were very limited (I think we only got 1).

Did you just have people cure bomb and have them die/rr along with the RNGs? Or I was thinking you could possibly setup a Shadowbind order of sorts.

Sorry just trying to get a more detail picture.
So basicly what you did was:
1. Everyone damage rush it.
2. Blms bio2 and poison 2 dot it.
3. Repeate while everyone RR up and out of weakness
4. Repeat Step 1?

[Kaeko]

I'll try to go into detail....

First Wave - BLM RDM RNG RNG RNG

RNGs do their combo using a shadowbind order. RDM opens with Dia II and Poison II. RDM and BLM then Cure bomb who they can until the wipe/charm fest occurs. On this occassion charm wipes us so we just wait for the charm then die 1 by one and start DoT. Bio II layers over Dia II so the DoTs stack ok.

Second Wave - MNK MNK NIN

MNKs blow their hundred fists while NIN just blows Spirits Within. We only did like 3-4% here... Died really fast because they never got HP cells or gear.

DoT holding - RDM and BLM

We situated ourselves on the right side of the battlefield. Alternate Bio II and Poison II to make sure they land about 30-45 seconds apart (so they don't wear at the same time). If they all wear, you have exactly 10 seconds before 10% regen starts.

RNGs should stand back and store TP using Sleeping Pots. After 5 minutes, weakness should wear as well as barrage timer. BRD ALWAYS stays in the back - the BRD should never even look at the boss or get close. Once all 3 RNGs have TP and are ok, they go again. BRD just basically cures/paeon then double minuet before going in. He didn't have Soul Voice/ Abilities.

Having 1 BLM is useful for tractor. Bring at least 20 reraises for BLM and RDM. Based on Aurik, the boss actually has 50k HP and a decent RNG Barrage/Slug is 1300-1500. With 3 RNGs shouldn't take that long. MNKs and NINs just kind of go in when nothing else is going on. Mijin Gakure did a nice chunk too.

Hate to say this but if you get shitty drops on the first 2 floors you're just out of luck. The RNGs HAVE TO have that SJ cell because the damage without /war is really bad (no zerk). When distributing cells, just keep in mind, the only people that really need everything are the RNGs. BLM, RDM, BRD need magic and a head/earring slot for RR - thats about it.


Another LS on Odin was able to win this with 13 members - a more balanced setup than ours. They had a Relic Shield and Relic Horn. Setup was...

PLD BLM BLM BLU WHM BRD // SAM SAM RNG WAR MNK BRD // MNK

http://alfetta.blog7.fc2.com/blog-date-200701.html

It's in JP and the information is a bit sparse. Look for the 1/8/2007 entry.

Good Luck

[Suiram]

I was told by someone today that a PLD using Fealty resists Brainjack, don't know where they heard it from, perhaps the JP attempt linked above. Worth trying though for the next group that brings a PLD.

[Sykes]

We tried to pop Citadel Chelonian on the 4th floor today. We didn't find out a whole lot that we didn't already know or guess; however, one thing to watch out for is that there are 6 Archaic Gear that patrol the north half of the map ...

http://www.tarupanic.com/sykes/misc/silversea4.jpg

All 6 of them wander in a straight line when they're moving. Occasionally they group in strange patterns in the room. I know for sure that they wander on the top half of the map (including the big room); however, I can't say one way or another that they patrol the bottom half (I did not observe them doing so).

There are a ton of chests that come pre-popped on this floor. Almost all of the small rooms have 2 or 4 chests. Each chest usually has 1 item in it, but there are quite a few really useful items (like the physical invulnerability one). Except for the 6 wandering Gear, the top half of the floor is devoid of monsters.

The door at the end of the map is sealed like a mysterious force like the doors from all of the NM rooms. There is 1 Archaic Rampart that is in the dats but is not already popped in the zone ... presumably this is the one that pops the NM. I suspect that killing the wandering Gear, the Chariot, the 4 Ramparts, or clearing the entire floor is the pre-requisite to pop it. Unfortunately, we weren't able to actually do anything on this floor because the 6 wandering Gear caught us by surprise and wiped us.

[Celeras]

I was told by someone today that a PLD using Fealty resists Brainjack, don't know where they heard it from, perhaps the JP attempt linked above. Worth trying though for the next group that brings a PLD.

I found the secret. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Merrow_No.17%27s_Locket

[Suiram]

I should clarify, it wasn't "Hey, I speculate that Fealty might resist Brainjack," but rather he had read or heard that it actually had for some group.

Anyhow, regarding the roaming set of gear on the 4th floor, they were in the southern part past the huge room with the chariot and a billion 3-gears when we tried to find Citadel Chelonian a few days ago, so it seems they can probably wander the entire east side.

[Sykes]

Anyhow, regarding the roaming set of gear on the 4th floor, they were in the southern part past the huge room with the chariot and a billion 3-gears when we tried to find Citadel Chelonian a few days ago, so it seems they can probably wander the entire east side.

k, I updated my map accordingly.

[Sady]

Ok, this might sound a little unorthodox, but has anyone considered pet tanking the mega boss? Yeah I know, WTF? Just please hear me out.

I'll be perfectly honest, I have zero experience with this boss. However, I do have alot of experience with other NMs that charm such as Xolotl and Lamia 13 and I know for a fact that pets (avatars/elementals, jug/charmed pets, wyvnavs, puppets and so on) cannot be charmed.

Now, I'm not totally aware of the mechanics of this boss's special move, however, from what I've read I'm going to assume that it is a single target charm+dot on the individual that currently has the most hate.

Would it be feasible to set up say a 4 SMN Garuda/Leviathan rotation? Assuming the bloodpacts do respectable damage, as long as people don't over agro it might be possible to have the avatars share hate. Others would simple use DOTs and light nukes to speed up the process. ~50k HP with 4 smns doing say 500 damage every 15 seconds works out of approximately 25 minutes to kill not couting any additional DOT from other jobs (or NM regen for that matter).

Recall that SMNs require very little equipment to be effective. In fact, they would only require magic and abilities to make this work (I suppose MP couldn't hurt either).

To me, the name Long Armed Chariot implies that everyone should remain "out of reach" so to speak. Just trying to think outside the box...

[Jeryhn]

The problem with avatar tanking is the perpetuation cost. If you want to wear gear that decreases the cost, you sacrifice gear that increases avatar attack or accuracy, which makes hate easier to pull. You also have to mind Bloodpact MP costs. On top of choosing between this, you'd need several sources of Refresh just to reduce the perpetuation to a bearable amount, and Astral Flow only works for 3 and a half minutes.

In a short fight like Fenrir Prime, avatar tanking works, but I'm pretty sure these are meant to be long endurance fights, where this sort of tanking won't work unless you have access to well over 18 people with jobs that utilize pets.

[Sci]

I would think similar to how people use Hi Potion to survive the start of salvage, people could use Hi Ethers at the end. Just a few people with waist/back unlocked could just sit there popping out Hi Ethers and bazaar them for the SMNs. Plus I think a lot of the chests in Silver Seas have temp items like Elixirs and Mana Powder, both of which would help that kind of strategy. I wouldn't be so worried about MP of the SMNs as much as HP of the avatars. But since the TP moves of the chariot are magic based, it might be possible to find an avatar likely to resist most of the damage and additional effect, and hopefully the chariot would waste a lot of TP moves on brainjack. Although it didn't seem to need TP to spam it, I'm not sure what would happen exactly.

[Keyln]

In theory, it would be possible for an avatar tank to work with only 3 Summoners, Bard, Corsair, and Red Mage, but it would take major coordination.

With a naked Summoner, avatars go for 13 MP/tick. Bard can knock off 3 MP with Ballad and II, Red Mage with Refresh knocks off another 3, and Corsair can knock off 2 - 5 MP, depending on roll, making for a total of 8 MP/tick off, which adds up to 5 MP/tick.

Now, add in Auto-Refresh, which marks it down to 4 MP/tick, and if Summoners can have their weapons unlocked, that'll knock it down to 2 MP/tick.

The best way to handle this is to stagger the Leviathan summons so that they all aren't summoned at once. This will allow Summoners some recovery time if one of the Leviathan are defeated, and to get MP back so that they all don't run out of MP at once. This is also provided that Leviathan can stand against the boss longer than 30 seconds. It might be helpful to use Spring Water so that Leviathan can last longer, but then that would put the Summoner in danger.

For this to work, it would require:

1) At least 3 Summoners.
A) Need Magic and Job Abilities at the very least.
B) Weapons would be very helpful.
C) Armor is a bonus.
D) Having MP unlock is a double bonus.
2) Bard
A) Need Magic of course for Ballad and II.
B) Ranged unlock a bonus.
3) Red Mage or Corsair or Both
A) Preferrably both. The more MP refresh, the better.
B) Obviously needs Magic and/or Job Ability unlocked.

One thing to keep in mind that this is in Theory. This is also assuming that the LBC doesn't have some sort of dangerous AoE and that Leviathan can last longer than 30 seconds against the LBC.

[Alathar]

Body might help too? Isn't the AF2 -3 perp cost (if the right day)?

[Muze]

isn't HQ staff -3mp?

Also Sanction refreh would help

[Sci]

One thing to keep in mind that this is in Theory. This is also assuming that the LBC doesn't have some sort of dangerous AoE and that Leviathan can last longer than 30 seconds against the LBC.

If LBC spawns in Silver Seas, you're in trouble. And the TP moves are already known.

[Jeryhn]

In theory, it would be possible for an avatar tank to work with only 3 Summoners, Bard, Corsair, and Red Mage, but it would take major coordination.

With a naked Summoner, avatars go for 13 MP/tick. Bard can knock off 3 MP with Ballad and II, Red Mage with Refresh knocks off another 3, and Corsair can knock off 2 - 5 MP, depending on roll, making for a total of 8 MP/tick off, which adds up to 5 MP/tick.

Now, add in Auto-Refresh, which marks it down to 4 MP/tick, and if Summoners can have their weapons unlocked, that'll knock it down to 2 MP/tick.

Good job in covering perpetuation. What about Bloodpact costs? Level 70 physical Bloodpacts are 164 MP each, and you still have that 2mp/tick draining away MP.

Also, Sanction Refresh works in Salvage.

The best way to handle this is to stagger the Leviathan summons so that they all aren't summoned at once. This will allow Summoners some recovery time if one of the Leviathan are defeated, and to get MP back so that they all don't run out of MP at once. This is also provided that Leviathan can stand against the boss longer than 30 seconds. It might be helpful to use Spring Water so that Leviathan can last longer, but then that would put the Summoner in danger.

1st problem. Staggering the summoned avatars means there's less sources of hate LAC will focused on, and with summoners summoning avatars and issuing Assault and Bloodpact commands, the summoners will generate hate. Since the summoners will be generating hate, the Bard, Red Mage and Corsair refreshing them will be generating hate as well (especially the Corsair, their rolls seem to generate quite a bit of hate).

If refreshers die, summoners run out of MP, you wipe.

For this to work, it would require:

1) At least 3 Summoners.
A) Need Magic and Job Abilities at the very least.
B) Weapons would be very helpful.
C) Armor is a bonus.
D) Having MP unlock is a double bonus.
2) Bard
A) Need Magic of course for Ballad and II.
B) Ranged unlock a bonus.
3) Red Mage or Corsair or Both
A) Preferrably both. The more MP refresh, the better.
B) Obviously needs Magic and/or Job Ability unlocked.

One thing to keep in mind that this is in Theory. This is also assuming that the LBC doesn't have some sort of dangerous AoE and that Leviathan can last longer than 30 seconds against the LBC.

Which brings us to problem 2. None of the above jobs have the H2H skill necessary to kill mobs at the beginning of Salvage, meaning none of the above is unlocked. So you bring additional people to kill mobs so this core team gets cells to unlock stuff... but are they gonna sit at LAC and do nothing or contribute? If they contribute, there's a strong chance that they'll get charmed and murderously charge the summoners eliminating this strat.

Problem 3. Avatar DoT for a mob that reportedly has approximately 50k HP (assuming it has a similar HP total to the other bosses)? Even if you could hold hate with avatars who have about 1400 HP max, you would need a ton more than 3 summoners given the amount of time available in Salvage.

Nice theorycrafting, but, well, it's just that. This method is neither practical nor realistic.

[aurik]

1400 max hp is the death sentence for this strategy, the aoe moves do 300-500 dmg each.

[Muze]

Don't forget Avatar also lost hate when they take damage.

Should change SMN to PUP!

I mean, hell automation hit pretty well, they can self cure, provoke, and do all that with just omg, job ability unlock.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Don't forget Avatar also lost hate when they take damage.

Should change SMN to PUP!

I mean, hell automation hit pretty well, they can self cure, provoke, and do all that with just omg, job ability unlock.

Won't they need ranged unlock, too? For animator, which allows for maneuvers. (Not sure... been ages since I've played PUP.) Then again, I'm not a great sarcasm detector.

[Muze]

even though you're not that great, but you still detected mine.

[Khamsin]

The problem with avatar tanking is the perpetuation cost. If you want to wear gear that decreases the cost, you sacrifice gear that increases avatar attack or accuracy, which makes hate easier to pull. You also have to mind Bloodpact MP costs. On top of choosing between this, you'd need several sources of Refresh just to reduce the perpetuation to a bearable amount, and Astral Flow only works for 3 and a half minutes.

In a short fight like Fenrir Prime, avatar tanking works, but I'm pretty sure these are meant to be long endurance fights, where this sort of tanking won't work unless you have access to well over 18 people with jobs that utilize pets.

A SMN with only weapon, body, hands, feet, and rings unlocked can reach -8 perpetuation (without relying on AF2 situational -perp). This brings perpetuation down to 4 MP/tick, which with a RDM, BRD, COR and Sanction Refresh, brings you up to 4 MP/tick back at minimum, 8 MP/tick back on a lucky roll. If the SMNs melee, they can even use Spirit Taker! If they melee using Claustrum, they'll get another 8 MP/tick refresh on top of that!

... ok, forget the last couple sentences.

Now, with 4-8 MP/tick back while avatars are out, a SMN will regain 164 MP every 1-2 minutes.

Alternatively, you could all use Fenrir and get 7-11 MP/tick back, and regain 109 MP every 30-50 seconds, in plenty of time for the next BP.

Or, in the middle ground is Diabolos... get 4-8 MP/tick back, and regain 109 MP every 40-80 seconds.

Or... go naked except for hands, body, feet+ring or weapon and use Carbuncle, spamming Meteorite and Healing Ruby II, while gaining 8-12 MP/tick.

Either way, if you rush straight to the boss as soon as you unlock weapon, body, hands, feet, rings, JA, magic, and max MP for each SMN, JA for each COR, and magic for each RDM and BRD, you could have the entire rest of the time to wear the boss down. I'd say bring 9 SMNs, 3 COR, 3 BRD, 3 RDM if I didn't already have enough experience in Silver Seas to know we'll never see that much magic.