Criminalizing RMT.

[Devek]

I have some copied CD that you guys can have for free, I will only charge for my time to deliver them to you.

[Ushallbeasgods]

What if the MMORPG companies just claim that all aspects of their games are their intellectual property and claim people who participate in RMT activities are stealing?

[Credos]

What if the MMORPG companies just claim that all aspects of their games are their intellectual property and claim people who participate in RMT activities are stealing?

Pretty sure that was already done in a lawsuit and the company lost because the Judge ruled that the time spent acquiring the items was the property of the person.

[Hyjynx]

From what I understand, no gil farmers actually work for IGE directly. IGE is a "broker" that sellers sell currency to in bulk quantities (for very little money, actually) and IGE then distributes it to their affiliates and directly to the players.

That means, if an actual farmer gets in trouble for something... it means nothing to companies like IGE because they actually have no real affiliation.

The advantage to actually being in the states would be the ability to use sites like playerauctions.com to sell virtual items without going through a broker.

I'm sure IGE pays large amounts of taxes for their income in the USA, I doubt the govt will go after them and make this an actual law unless someone can kick up some dust and blame them for something like Columbine.

"ZOMG MORTAL COMBAT IS BLOODY! ITS RUINING OUR KIDS!" -govt: "TIEM TO REGULATE LOL"

"ZOMG GTA CAUSED COLUMBINE!" -govt: "YER GOIN DOWNZ!"

"ZOMG GOLD FARMERS RAPED MY SISTER AND RAN OVER DUBUYA'S CAT!" -govt: /Accuses China of being a terrorist state and invades.


This story really had nothing to do with gold farming, outside of the minor detail that he made the money farming gold. You could replace gold farming with any other job/financial venture and the outcome would be the same. An immigrant "working" while in the USA on a student visa, is against the law.

[Janice]

I dunno the legality of it but it seems like what the one person said, about charging people for your time rather than for the items should be acceptable by law?

If I go to a pottery barn like place and purchase the right to paint using their supplies in their store, and then turn around and sell my awesome cup, pottery barn can't sue me.

I know the ToS you agree to can specifically prohib RMT-like activites, but it seems like charging for your time is the loopwhole.

Seems the real problem is that gil isn't real. Lets say someone makes a video of FFXI and people want to buy that video? SE could sue you over that because a video is a physical (or electronic) thing. Someone used their 'time' to make a video, but you can't sell your time because there is a physical thing you are selling instead.

Gil doesn't exist and therefore you can't sell it. If someone logs on your character, takes all your gil and items, can you take them to court? No, cause they didn't take anything real.

The only way to you would be able to make gil selling illegal is to convince the court system to make game money a real thing.

[Hyjynx]

Seems the real problem is that gil isn't real. Lets say someone makes a video of FFXI and people want to buy that video? SE could sue you over that because a video is a physical (or electronic) thing. Someone used their 'time' to make a video, but you can't sell your time because there is a physical thing you are selling instead.

Gil doesn't exist and therefore you can't sell it. If someone logs on your character, takes all your gil and items, can you take them to court? No, cause they didn't take anything real.

The only way to you would be able to make gil selling illegal is to convince the court system to make game money a real thing.

Yea but there are loopholes on both sides of the fence. If someone gets your information illegally, logs into your account, and steals your virtual items. You might not be able to prosecute for the stolen virtual goods, but you could probably prosecute for stealing personal information that allowed access to your personal and credit info, which I assume would be a crime.

[Sadler]

I am pretty sure China and America now have Virtual Goods laws.

we need more Lawyers on these forums!

Ninja Edit : Who ever mentioned killing a player ingame as murder... what would that mean if you paid people too kill others...? *Going deeper*

Wouldnt that be classed as Organised Virtual Crime?... So many fun things!

[Sidanoir]

International law is always kind of interesting....

As IGE operates in many countries its subject to all their laws probably...

As a gilseller operates in some damp basement in china with 8 PS2s and 8 PCs multiplexed to a single keyboard, probably only subject to chinas laws...

I think the Chinese government would rather have them making some money to buy rice rather than stealing it..

Or worse, terrorizing american terrorists by killing their dogs and eating them (or cats too), ya they really do that in china..eat dogs and cats

[Dank]

I think I remember over in the general forums a thread talking about how some Government was thinking about implementing a tax on MMO currency or some shit. Given that, wouldn't it be safe to say governments are starting to think that online currency is becoming an actual item? An item that can be stolen, sold, bought. That's what makes me think this article Kanodin dug up has some merit to it, and could possibly be on the books soon.

[Intense]

I am pretty sure China and America now have Virtual Goods laws.

we need more Lawyers on these forums!

Ninja Edit : Who ever mentioned killing a player ingame as murder... what would that mean if you paid people too kill others...? *Going deeper*

Wouldnt that be classed as Organised Virtual Crime?... So many fun things!

Im only a paralegal, so I cant give out legal advice

[Kaiseran]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5292/dingo1lb8.jpg

Adaman Haub is blue, good sir.

[Jeryhn]

Adaman Haub is blue, good sir.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...o/pinkberk.jpg

LOOKS PINK TO ME.

[wow]

question, if you give someone the account info to your account, and then they change the credit card info and all that and then take everything, can they do anything about it?

[Eddie]

They need a seperate gil seller server.

Also, if you are caught buying/selling gil, you're automatically sent to that server.

Fixed.

[Xavier]

question, if you give someone the account info to your account, and then they change the credit card info and all that and then take everything, can they do anything about it?

You can get the actual account back, yes. Getting any items removed from the character is much more difficult.

[Sidanoir]

question, if you give someone the account info to your account, and then they change the credit card info and all that and then take everything, can they do anything about it?

You can get the actual account back, yes. Getting any items removed from the character is much more difficult.

You sure about this? I believe someone spoke with a live GM support thing, got screenshto somewhere..and you need current billing info to reset the password + a bunch of other shit...so yeah if someone changes billing info your fucked I think

[Rescue]

question, if you give someone the account info to your account, and then they change the credit card info and all that and then take everything, can they do anything about it?

You can get the actual account back, yes. Getting any items removed from the character is much more difficult.

You sure about this? I believe someone spoke with a live GM support thing, got screenshto somewhere..and you need current billing info to reset the password + a bunch of other shit...so yeah if someone changes billing info your fucked I think

This just happened with someone I know. SE can get the account back for you as long as the billing info has not been changed. As for the items well you're shit out of luck on that part. Once the billing info has been changed you sir are fucked. For whatever reason SE has they use the billing info to verify who the account belongs to.

[Xavier]

question, if you give someone the account info to your account, and then they change the credit card info and all that and then take everything, can they do anything about it?

You can get the actual account back, yes. Getting any items removed from the character is much more difficult.

You sure about this? I believe someone spoke with a live GM support thing, got screenshto somewhere..and you need current billing info to reset the password + a bunch of other shit...so yeah if someone changes billing info your fucked I think

A guy in our linkshell sold his account, realized it was a mistake, called Square and said it was stolen, had the previous credit card info, the original account creation code, and was able to convince them it was taken from him. He got the account back, and later sold it again.

[Kooldac]

question, if you give someone the account info to your account, and then they change the credit card info and all that and then take everything, can they do anything about it?

You can get the actual account back, yes. Getting any items removed from the character is much more difficult.

You sure about this? I believe someone spoke with a live GM support thing, got screenshto somewhere..and you need current billing info to reset the password + a bunch of other shit...so yeah if someone changes billing info your fucked I think

A guy in our linkshell sold his account, realized it was a mistake, called Square and said it was stolen, had the previous credit card info, the original account creation code, and was able to convince them it was taken from him. He got the account back, and later sold it again.

The 1st buyer gets the shaft?

[Sidanoir]

Once again to me sounds like a case of SE being inconsistent in policy.
As evidenced by peoples different dealings with GMs for the same situation.
Basically it sounds like it depends who you you get on the other end of the telephone and what you say to them.