War Rampage vs. Blu Vorpal, I'm cereal

[Celeras]

Shut up.

Yes, we all know what will win. But I've been dicking around as blu, and have a newb question regarding WS mechanics that I cant figure out.

Warrior Axe Skill: A-
Rampage
5 Hits, Chance of critical varies with TP.
Str_30%
Damage Multiplier: 0.50

Blu Sword Skill: A-
Vorpal Blade
4 Hits, Chance of critical varies with TP.
Str_30%
Damage Multiplier: 1.00

The weapon skills are on paper, very similar. Vorpal has one less hit, but double the multiplier. Everything else is exactly the same.

Now, the War vs. Blu part (only weaponskill gear and so forth).

Base Str: Similar, dont laugh. Not talking about overall efficiency here, because it wouldnt be efficient to stack nothing but str+ spells on a blu. It'd be pretty stupid, in fact. But if you did, Blu would end up with a higher base strength when naked then warrior.

Geared Str: Only thing that matters when WSing, since youre not WSing naked. War gets lot of str gear, Blu doesnt. On Blu I end up with about +54, with room for improvement with HQs/kurrea pants and so forth. War may win out but it wouldn't be the landslide you might think.

Geared Attack: Not worth talking about base attack since blu doesnt get any attack+ spells. War wins by a decent amount, not much else to say. They get some nice str/attack gear, we dont.

However, as a Blu I am not trying to win this battle(duh?). I tested with a Sis Kebabi to raise my base attack at ~440. I am comparing this to a foodless/solo warriors rampage.

Axe vs. Sword

Maneater Rare
(Axe) All Races
DMG: 43 Delay: 276
Latent Effect: DMG: 49
Lv. 73 WAR / DRK / BST / RNG

Mighty Talwar
(Sword) All Races
DMG: 40 Delay: 240 DEX +2
On Windsdays: DMG: 48 Resist Vs. Wind +15
Lv. 72 WAR / RDM / PLD / DRK / BLU / COR

I used a borrowed Mighty Talwar on Windsday in Main hand, to try to keep the base weapon damage as close as possible. Shiva's Shotel, though it sucks for everything else due to its speed, would be the best all around Vorpal sword that blu can use at D45.

Now for the moment of truth, what i'm actually here to ask. What the fuck is wrong with Vorpal Blade? It sucks, really sucks. I'm talking about topping out at around 900~ on Lesser Colibri. The warrior barely cracked below that on his minimums. Why?

And for the record, I understand this holds no merit and has no real practical purpose. Especially since blus are most efficient when they save TP for CA. I'm just looking for an answer.

[Lordwafik]

Monster weapon DMG ratings are stupidly high, which is why they hit so hard, which is why vit and def are inneficient on high lvl mobs, because of SE's broken damage formulas.

How your shotel is Dmg 45, theirs is Dmg 150 or something.

[Celeras]

How is Monster DMG ratings related to this, i'm not comparing to Mamools >.>;

[XxSlusherxx]

Vorpral Blade isn't really all that weak, when used on WAR, so I dunno how to explain the massive descrepincy, but what I can tell you, is on weaker mobs your going to get a good attk vs. def dice roll on all5(6) hits so it's going to make rampage look as strong as possible. Kind of like how Ku on Easy Prey dosen't seem nearly as horrible.

[careswww]

vorpal on a WAR is pretty good, something like 1400 is my max without 2hr(pre warriors charge).
That's with ridill/joy(40/36) on a fly in the mire so the joy may've gotten the piercing bonus ( I'm not sure if joy WSs as slashing if it's in your offhand )

[Eaglestrike]

What were the actual STR and Attacks on the two jobs?

That 0.5 damage multiplier only effects the first hit. So Rampage is essentially 4.5 hits and Vorpal is 4 hits.

What were the offhands used, if any?

[VZX]

What were the actual STR and Attacks on the two jobs?

That 0.5 damage multiplier only effects the first hit. So Rampage is essentially 4.5 hits and Vorpal is 4 hits.

What were the offhands used, if any?

add another 1 for dual wield (were you using /NIN too, OP?)
and some 1~2 hits possibility during double attack

[spooky]

Monster weapon DMG ratings are stupidly high, which is why they hit so hard, which is why vit and def are inneficient on high lvl mobs, because of SE's broken damage formulas.
How your shotel is Dmg 45, theirs is Dmg 150 or something.

lol has someone hacked your BG account? >.> Sleep deprived much?

[Krandor]

Monster weapon DMG ratings are stupidly high, which is why they hit so hard, which is why vit and def are inneficient on high lvl mobs, because of SE's broken damage formulas.
How your shotel is Dmg 45, theirs is Dmg 150 or something.

lol has someone hacked your BG account? >.> Sleep deprived much?

What's that supposed to mean? There's nothing wrong with what he said.

[Eaglestrike]

Monster weapon DMG ratings are stupidly high, which is why they hit so hard, which is why vit and def are inneficient on high lvl mobs, because of SE's broken damage formulas.
How your shotel is Dmg 45, theirs is Dmg 150 or something.

lol has someone hacked your BG account? >.> Sleep deprived much?

What's that supposed to mean? There's nothing wrong with what he said.

Well the OP wasn't talking about a monster doing Vorpal Blade, he was comparing a BLU and a WAR doing Vorpal and Rampage respectively. Mob damage formula had nothing to do with things, just weapon skill damage from two PC's.

[Kaylia]

Berserk/aggressor/double attack is where it is at. A blu will never have those if he is subbing nin, and thats a ton of dmg. Rampage without zerk is rarely impressive, hell, I had a bunch of 250 at this camp when song were down.

[spooky]

Monster weapon DMG ratings are stupidly high, which is why they hit so hard, which is why vit and def are inneficient on high lvl mobs, because of SE's broken damage formulas.
How your shotel is Dmg 45, theirs is Dmg 150 or something.

lol has someone hacked your BG account? >.> Sleep deprived much?

What's that supposed to mean? There's nothing wrong with what he said.

Jesus it's spreading. Learn2read?

[Edgie]

What were the actual STR and Attacks on the two jobs?

That 0.5 damage multiplier only effects the first hit. So Rampage is essentially 4.5 hits and Vorpal is 4 hits.

What were the offhands used, if any?

add another 1 for dual wield (were you using /NIN too, OP?)
and some 1~2 hits possibility during double attack

This is where you find the huge difference, when dual wielding you get an extra attack, so rampage turns into 6 hits. Also the double attack rate, a rampage that hits for 17-18 tp return due to double attacks is gonna be HUGE damage wise.

[Celeras]

/nin, tulwar/ifrits using brutal

[Eaglestrike]

And what about war? And actual STR and Attack stats for each.

[yrpaine]

ya, i've seen war/nin with 8x merrited sword do well with vorpal. main difference is the gear that war can use over blu, along with the attack and accuracy abilities war has. war attack and accuracy will always be much higher than blu, i don't see what the point of this is unless you do gimpy war vs pro blu

[Celeras]

I didnt ask the war his specific stats, I just told him to come Rampage colibri a dozen times or so without food. Typical ridill-less hnm war, maneater/jugg/ebody/heca etc, fill in the blanks. He was just a base comparison so I could see what kind of numbers Rampage did on EPs.

As for me on Blu, I just did this again. My friend with the Tulwar was logged off, so I did Dissector/Ifrits. I figured the damage would be MUCH lower (D48 vs. D36). Asked a Brd to come along and give minuet x2 instead of just popping a meat.

Str 63+59
Dex 63+27
Attack 490

Actually faired slighty better then the Tulwar(??????????????). Maxed at 1004, lows in the 600. Still shittastic for EP Colibris.

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

Now for the moment of truth, what i'm actually here to ask. What the fuck is wrong with Vorpal Blade? It sucks, really sucks. I'm talking about topping out at around 900~ on Lesser Colibri. The warrior barely cracked below that on his minimums. Why?

Vorpal Blade doesn't suck but it's substantially weaker than Rampage, mainly because it has, er, 1 less hit.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/599/vorpalmb4.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5...mpagewrdl3.jpg

Those are my best ones on lolAura/Decos and that Rampage was pre-Warrior's Charge; I didn't post em to start up an e-peen contest though but rather because those two screenshots show very well the gap existent between the two weapon skills.

Moreover, getting extra hits due to Dual Wield and Double Attack and more (Accuracy, if we were talking about exp mobs but this isn't the case >) Attack > STR > DEX, in this order, are the reasons why Warrior Vorpals average higher damage than yours. As BLU you're either giving up on Zerk/(Warcry)/DA/Atk+ trait while subbing /Ninja or on the 5th hit granted by Dual Wielding, when subbing Warrior.

You're also overstimating the effects of weapons base DMG and understimating the role of Dexterity when it comes to trigger criticals in a multi-hit weapon skill; in fact large quantities of DEX in your WS macro may compensate for the lack of Attack, just by increasing the chances of criticals*.

If you're doubtful about the relevance of crits for Rampage and Vorpal just ask your Warrior friend to show you the difference between a NQ and a Mighty Strikes'ed weapon skill; scoring a critical on all the hits is possible (although rare) even without 2hr anyhow, most of the times, adding MS to one of the aforementioned WS equals a doubled damage output.


* edited for clarity: Dexterity does jack shit for your critical hit rate on regular melee hits though (in that case even a truckload of DEX doesn't accomplish much), I'm exclusively talking about how it affects multi-hit weapon skills critical chances.

[VZX]

yeah, don't underestimate the berserk
berserk effect is about the same of Dia II/Frightful Roar + Acid or Angon

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

My friend with the Tulwar was logged off, so I did Dissector/Ifrits. I figured the damage would be MUCH lower (D48 vs. D36).

(...)

Actually faired slighty better then the Tulwar(??????????????). Maxed at 1004, lows in the 600. Still shittastic for EP Colibris.

Doesn't Dissector have +something% Crits?

Ninja Edit: +6% Crits, there you go.