Bush Speech

[Talus]

Let me preface this by saying I enjoy playing the devil's advocate.

I'm not defending the president. You need to provide better arguments for your ideas. When you posted the different ideas you had about amending the Constitution, you failed to provide solid arguments for your ideas. If you have such strong convictions about it, back it up.

[Bethany]

Let me preface this by saying I enjoy playing the devil's advocate.

I'm not defending the president. You need to provide better arguments for your ideas. When you posted the different ideas you had about amending the Constitution, you failed to provide solid arguments for your ideas. If you have such strong convictions about it, back it up.

Talus, I don't claim to have all the answers. I never did. The changes I listed if you re-read what I said: "Hmm seeing as how this is my opinion on what should happen, I'll go with wishful thinking since I doubt any of it ever comes to pass." So my opinions, not my strong convictions, I feel I gave adequate reasons for when I listed them or felt the change itself said all there needed to be said.

Just because I feel there needs to be changes doesn't mean I have a list of suggestions and rebuttals ready to go. My opinions were just that, my own personal opinions. Some will agree, some won't.

The only strong conviction I have is my disdain for Bush and his administration. Backing that up would be easy though since his presidency is flawed in so many ways it kinda takes the point of listing anything away.

Since you enjoy playing Devils Advocate Talus, do you like how things are? Would you change anything? Would you amend anything to the constitution?

[ozz]

Also, not every president came from an absurdly rich family, examples: Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton.

theres another pattern here, CAN ANYONE SEE IT?not that i thought through the revelance of the second editattern, but it was funny that those two were the ones you mentioned
oh and bethany, your first two changes were,as archialmostdidatransy put it, based on a short-term sentiment that will not be long lasting. your stop policing the world point is idiotic, the UN and it's programs, such as oil for food, were being exploited to buy preferential votes to help out human rights violators...the global community is just as corrupt as ours is, except their corrupt efforts help their economies rather than ours(you could point out that this is just as bad, but then i'd say that the whole point of your changes was to help the US, making their corruption less preferable than ours)

[Talus]

I was thinking no one would notice the two presidents I listed were impeached. Good job, gold star for you.

[Marsala]

K, just wanted to verify that you want to piss all over this country.

People who have rich parents can't run for office? Awesome. Gun hunting illegal? Superb. Challenger candidates who can't point out the flaws of the incumbents? Man, I wish I had thought of that.

Stupid shit like this is why the framers of the constitution made it difficult to change.

What you call pissing on the country I would call saving it. How can someone who is born into wealth ever going to know what it's like to deal with things the average American deals with? They can walk a day in that persons shoes. They can do community service blah blah, but it can't change their being out of touch. If someone works their ass off and pulls themselves out of poverty and becomes a politician, they've earned my vote. Not someone like snotty Bush Jr who only has the White House because of Daddy and Mommy's money and power.

Gun control is needed. There is a reason the US ranks so damn high in murder/violence and that reason is easy access to guns despite supposed tougher gun laws. Dick and Jane live in the suburbs and Dick has several guns because hey, he is a card carrying member of the NRA and it's his right to do so! He uses them to hunt for sport because hell, killing things is a national pastime and well, he may not need the gun to get food for his table but who cares. Enter into the picture Juan. He lives in the inner city and he wants to show he is a bad ass thug to all his homies. He takes a ride out into the burbs and breaks into a house looking for a piece and finds lovely Dick's horde of weapons. Juan is ecstatic because after all, everyone knows you need a full automatic to hunt/be fly~ Juan takes his new found bling back to the city where Juan proceeds to show what a man he is by being an all around original gangsta and he accidentally shoots you and kills you. Maybe it's me, but I would rather you be alive than let Dick have guns to get his kicks killing innocent wildlife.

You ask ANYONE what they hate the most about elections and they will say those annoying as hell advertisements on TV slinging mud at each other. In an equal setting with X amount to be spent and no special interest groups or committees paying for trash ads, the politicians would have no choice but to set out what they want to change/do & stand for. People can then make an informative choice not based on half truths and misrepresented facts.

Sorry you feel as though those are stupid points. I don't feel that way though. I don't want to change the Constitution entirely. I just don't want things to stagnate and people never realize they've been a lemming all their life. People need to wake up or Dysgenics wont be a hypothetical outcome, it will be our fate.

If they banned guns that wouldnt stop criminals form getting them. It would only stop the law abiding citizens from obtaining them.

[Raineer]

Maybe not the constitution, but the way it's interpreted/enforced by the judicial system (which is all that matters anyways)

Were I supreme leader of all that is judicial I would make 3 changes:

1) If you sue someone and you lose, you pay them the amount you tried to sue for.

2) Personal Bankruptcies are eliminated. They no longer exist. I am considering extending this to businesses to eliminate loopholes but for now we'll do a 5 year trial and see how this goes.

3) Credit Cards are now illegal. They are millions (literally) of times worse than good old Mary Jane for americans, yet the latter is illegal no matter where you go.

Personal responsibility need to be regrown. If it existed somewhere then the constitution would still work, but as it is now people take the constitution and "bill of rights" to excuse ANY behavior in the world and the legal system/ACLU backs them up.

[Duckroll]

The solution to all our problems.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9903/obama08sb9.jpg

[ozz]

Maybe not the constitution, but the way it's interpreted/enforced by the judicial system (which is all that matters anyways)

Were I supreme leader of all that is judicial I would make 3 changes:

1) If you sue someone and you lose, you pay them the amount you tried to sue for.

2) Personal Bankruptcies are eliminated. They no longer exist. I am considering extending this to businesses to eliminate loopholes but for now we'll do a 5 year trial and see how this goes.

3) Credit Cards are now illegal. They are millions (literally) of times worse than good old Mary Jane for americans, yet the latter is illegal no matter where you go.

Personal responsibility need to be regrown. If it existed somewhere then the constitution would still work, but as it is now people take the constitution and "bill of rights" to excuse ANY behavior in the world and the legal system/ACLU backs them up.

1. scoar, except add something about suing mcdonalds for making you fat or the person whose house you got locked in after attempting to rob it=instalose
plus the fact that most people who sue companies in such a manner dont have any worth to begin with, this effectively does nothing...leading to:
2. bankcruptcies, which do hurt credit and loan companies but help capitalism and growth
3. eliminating credit cards as a legal means would undercut your personal responsibility initiative, people only get in debt because they lack that responsibility.

your #2 and 3 are conflicting, 2 actively works against those in debt, while 3 actively helps people from getting into debt

2 works for your responsibility bit, 3 doesnt,and 1...wouldnt help the current situation much at all

oh and you nailed it with the ACLU point, lawyers are the real problem

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

The solution to all our problems.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9903/obama08sb9.jpg

HUSSEIN+OSAMA = NOT MY PRESIDENT

[ozz]

The solution to all our problems.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9903/obama08sb9.jpg

HUSSEIN+OSAMA = NOT MY PRESIDENT

http://news.stoo.com/news/image/000/...cnnbon0104.jpg

[Raineer]

Maybe not the constitution, but the way it's interpreted/enforced by the judicial system (which is all that matters anyways)

Were I supreme leader of all that is judicial I would make 3 changes:

1) If you sue someone and you lose, you pay them the amount you tried to sue for.

2) Personal Bankruptcies are eliminated. They no longer exist. I am considering extending this to businesses to eliminate loopholes but for now we'll do a 5 year trial and see how this goes.

3) Credit Cards are now illegal. They are millions (literally) of times worse than good old Mary Jane for americans, yet the latter is illegal no matter where you go.

Personal responsibility need to be regrown. If it existed somewhere then the constitution would still work, but as it is now people take the constitution and "bill of rights" to excuse ANY behavior in the world and the legal system/ACLU backs them up.

1. scoar, except add something about suing mcdonalds for making you fat or the person whose house you got locked in after attempting to rob it=instalose
plus the fact that most people who sue companies in such a manner dont have any worth to begin with, this effectively does nothing...leading to:
2. bankcruptcies, which do hurt credit and loan companies but help capitalism and growth
3. eliminating credit cards as a legal means would undercut your personal responsibility initiative, people only get in debt because they lack that responsibility.

your #2 and 3 are conflicting, 2 actively works against those in debt, while 3 actively helps people from getting into debt

2 works for your responsibility bit, 3 doesnt,and 1...wouldnt help the current situation much at all

oh and you nailed it with the ACLU point, lawyers are the real problem

Yeah I caught that before I posted it as well.... idk maybe you can leave bankruptcies and eliminate credit cards. It would be a transition period and not an overnight change, but might still work in the long run.

Credit cards are sort of a different beast, i would prefer to just find ways for people to grow their own confidence and responsibility...however credit is more addictive and harmful to more people than most (all?) drugs in america. People just can't put them down...imo something actually needs to be done proactively.

omg i'm a republican and i didn't mention gun control, abortion, or spreading freedom beyond our borders. I could never get elected...ever

[Kuya]

omg i'm a republican and i didn't mention gun control, abortion, or spreading freedom beyond our borders. I could never get elected...ever

Well not by the more conservative right.

[Duckroll]

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8467/obama4komain4.jpg

[Kuya]

hes too dark to order white people around

[archibaldcrane]

2) Personal Bankruptcies are eliminated. They no longer exist. I am considering extending this to businesses to eliminate loopholes but for now we'll do a 5 year trial and see how this goes.

The vast majority of personal bankruptcies are because of medical bills. If you want to implement this rule, you'd better provide some sort of national health care.

Just a thought.

[Raineer]

2) Personal Bankruptcies are eliminated. They no longer exist. I am considering extending this to businesses to eliminate loopholes but for now we'll do a 5 year trial and see how this goes.

The vast majority of personal bankruptcies are because of medical bills. If you want to implement this rule, you'd better provide some sort of national health care.

Just a thought.

I'd like to see a source on that, i don't think they are because of medical bills. Avg household CC bill is $25k (not bad, but that's average). 65% of those people make only the minimum payments.

[archibaldcrane]

2) Personal Bankruptcies are eliminated. They no longer exist. I am considering extending this to businesses to eliminate loopholes but for now we'll do a 5 year trial and see how this goes.

The vast majority of personal bankruptcies are because of medical bills. If you want to implement this rule, you'd better provide some sort of national health care.

Just a thought.

I'd like to see a source on that, i don't think they are because of medical bills. Avg household CC bill is $25k (not bad, but that's average). 65% of those people make only the minimum payments.

#s vary from report to report, but here's one that says 50%:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/bri ... 50202c.htm

"Illness and medical bills are big reasons behind fully half of all personal bankruptcies, affecting about 700,000 households per year, according to a new study."

Looks like most of the reports I can find say "about half" so my "vast majority" claim is a little off. However, the point still stands.

[Demosthenes11]

The solution to all our problems.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9903/obama08sb9.jpg

Hope that's a joke; the guy has as many qualifications as I do.

As for the rest of this thread, 90% of you are retarded. The whole "bush lied, is stoopid as a rock, and didnt win the election" shit automatically flags you for knowing nothing about politics. Make an intelligent argument, christ.

[archibaldcrane]

As for the rest of this thread, 90% of you are retarded. The whole "bush lied, is stoopid as a rock, and didnt win the election" shit automatically flags you for knowing nothing about politics. Make an intelligent argument, christ.

Would you prefer "Bush misled americans and Congress about the threat Iraq presented to American national security, leading America into a war where "victory" is looking less and less achievable, spending hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars, costing over 3,000 american lives and over 20,000 americans injured, and tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives in the process. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he refuses to admit that the war is a mistake, and instead is in the process of escalating the conflict, putting even more american lives at risk just to try to salvage some sort of success from the quagmire he created."

Is that an intelligent anti-Bush argument?

[Dragonking]

The solution to all our problems.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9903/obama08sb9.jpg

Hope that's a joke; the guy has as many qualifications as I do.

As for the rest of this thread, 90% of you are retarded. The whole "bush lied, is stoopid as a rock, and didnt win the election" shit automatically flags you for knowing nothing about politics. Make an intelligent argument, christ.

The pro Bush talked .. amen.
/sarcasm
Seriously stop saying 90% of us are stupid and try to make an intelligent argument ,when actually.. you can't make one yourself. Oh about politics , you don't know more things than us , so keep your "retarded" for yourself.

/edit: archibaldcrane's argument win ^^. Wait a sec bush send more soldiers in Irak? 21000? this guy is crazy.