How much does an abortion cost?

[Jeryhn]

Edit: Jeryhn, and i disagree with that. A rapist should not have any right in what the woman does with the baby.

But i dont see how you can say a man doesnt have the right in a consentual relationship where the woman is not in any danger. Its his offspring to.

Because proving consentuality is something extremely hard to do. Also bear in mind, relationships can deteriorate over time. A woman pregnant with a man's child, who originally conceived the baby willingly, yet no longer carries it that way for any number of reasons (adultery, crime, breakup, etc.) should not be forced to give birth to a man's child if she does not want to. Period.

[Devek]

Only a matter of time before this thread turns into a trainwreck.

I'm not saying that, but usually the male posture on abortion is abort the baby by any means possible, forgetting that a woman's body is in play also.

Actually, quite a few of us are in support of legislation that makes it illegal to get an aborting without the father's consent..

Lol, and I suppose if a woman is raped and gets pregnant, the rapist has to consent to an abortion as well?
I've got nothing nice to say about men that want to pass laws that govern the reproductive functions of women Fucking patriarchal bullshit.

I'm not a lawyer but there are torts that could be used to prevent a rapist from getting anywhere here such as Unclean Hands

Furthermore.. with education comes choices. Rape crisis centers offer day after pills to prevent a rape victim from getting pregnant.. there is no reason this should be an issue in an informed society.

[archibaldcrane]

But rapists can, and have sucessfully, pulled off legal battles preventing their victims from aborting children they have fathered.

Gotta ask for the sauce here Jeryhn.

In an unrelated note:

The thing that pisses me off about the abortion debate is just how people try to frame the argument.

I've got nothing nice to say about men that want to pass laws that govern the reproductive functions of women

You realize that pro-lifers care about the life of the human being growing inside of you, not your "reproductive functions". They feel that your right to control your "reproductive functions" stops at the point where it ends the life of a human.

And then the other side is just as annoying:

Abortion is Murder! A fetus is alive and has a heartbeat! Life begins at conception!

Yeah, we know that. It's alive, it lives, it has a heartbeat. It is an organism that is unique and distinct once conception occurs. And society has agreed that if a mother wants to kill it, that is acceptable, as long as it hasn't been born. All human lives aren't equal.

I understand why these stupid word-games have been going on for the past 40 years - if the pro-choice side acknowledges the clear fact that the fetus is alive and human, then they raise sympathy for the human they are killing. That's why they frame everything in the "reproductive rights" argument. It's just a pet peeve of mine, two sides who seem to be arguing about the same things, never are at all.

[archibaldcrane]

Rape crisis centers offer day after pills to prevent a rape victim from getting pregnant.. there is no reason this should be an issue in an informed society.

Yeah, you're right. Rape victims should be able, no expected, to be able to make clear decisions about the possibility of pregnancy within 48 hours of being victim to one of the worst crimes someone can suffer.

Seriously, why are these rape victims so fucking irresponsible? Honestly, rape victims are some of the least responsible, selfish, inconsiderate, and ultimately lazy people on this planet.

Fucking rape victims. I swear.

[Kuya]

Edit: Jeryhn, and i disagree with that. A rapist should not have any right in what the woman does with the baby.

But i dont see how you can say a man doesnt have the right in a consentual relationship where the woman is not in any danger. Its his offspring to.

Because proving consentuality is something extremely hard to do. Also bear in mind, relationships can deteriorate over time. A woman pregnant with a man's child, who originally conceived the baby willingly, yet no longer carries it that way for any number of reasons (adultery, crime, breakup, etc.) should not be forced to give birth to a man's child if she does not want to. Period.

I can agree that she does not need to carry it in the case of a breakup(but then comes the problem that the man is the one who wants it and not the woman, so he would raise it not her, but she doesnt want to birth it). If the guy commits adultery of course he no longer has a say, he fucking cheated. Im not too sure about crime.

Edit: Not to mention that if they both disagree about the abortion, the woman would most likely opt to break up because of this reason and screw over the man.

[Navia]

I've got nothing nice to say about men that want to pass laws that govern the reproductive functions of women

You realize that pro-lifers care about the life of the human being growing inside of you, not your "reproductive functions". They feel that your right to control your "reproductive functions" stops at the point where it ends the life of a human.

Fair enough, I probably should have said "Reproductive choices" then? - im too busy being a hormonal bitch over this issue, k? 8)
What it boils down to is that I believe a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason.
If a man has an issue with a woman's right to choose, then maybe he should be a bit more choosy and stick to having sex with women that don't believe in abortions.

[archibaldcrane]

The problems with "a man should have a say" are -way- too varied. That's why he doesn't have a say.

"Consentuality"
"Knowing who the father is"
"Bills/Child Support"
"Medical Risks"

[Kuya]

then maybe he should be a bit more choosy and stick to having sex with women that don't believe in abortions.

PS: I think you meant have casual sex with the ones that like abortion, and marry the ones who dont bealive in it.

[archibaldcrane]

If a man has an issue with a woman's right to choose, then maybe he should be a bit more choosy and stick to having sex with women that don't believe in abortions.

See, you keep doing it though - what you mean is "If a man has an issue with someone killing another human before it's born" then....

and your solution doesn't solve his problem.

[Ohemgee]

I saw Rape in this topic.

Kind of reminds me of my old servers rapist aka Byrn.

[Eaglestrike]

Everyone going on about "Womens rights, you haven't gone through childbirth" just screams "we don't want our children to have daddies". You're going to not let me have any decision over my future son/daughter's potential life? I hope none of the people using that argument want us to then feel sorry that other women have to raise kids solo. You're trying to make the men that want to take responsibility feel shitty about what other people in their gender did, then make them have no rights/power over the responsibility we should be taking? What the hell. The main problem with the hardcore feminist thoughts is how largely hypocritical it is.

On another note, if you get raped, that man should get prosecuted just for trying to take rights over the child and 100% decision should be given to the mother. I'm a Christian and all but that situation is too fucked up for me want to get involved. I'll let God himself deal with that, I'm not. Rape is a crime worse than murder IMO.

[Raineh]

All this, if you dont have a vagina GTFO is pathetic

It takes two to tango, the second you put yourself in the position to conceive, abortion should be a joint decision.

It maybe true that a lot of guys might be the first to see it as an option, but not all guys are like that....

When my ex fell pregnant i was over the moon, and after being around kids all my life being a father was something I wanted to be.
But she didn't feel the same way, she wanted to abort "it" for the sake of her career, I said id look after the child and begged her not to abort.

Two months after the birth she left me, and our daughter.

The point is shes now 6, and looks at my girlfriend as her mum and the thought of her real mum aborting my little princess sickens me.

Im not saying most guys would do this, and probably few guys are pro life but it should be boths decision, noone should have there child taken away from them without being part of that decision, male or female.

[Bwelch]

Furthermore.. with education comes choices. Rape crisis centers offer day after pills to prevent a rape victim from getting pregnant.. there is no reason this should be an issue in an informed society.

You might want to reword that. You make it sounds as if it's the victims fault for getting pregnant. There are many different possibilities of someone being raped that you can't generalize a couple situations as: "There is no reason this should be an issue in a informed society". Not to mention rape crisis centers or hot lines don't offer services if you can't get to them (being raped by a one of your own family member and/or being held against your will).

I see abortion in the near future as an situation that will one day be a matter of personal choice instead of governmental regulations with rules and lacking of offensive harassment from idiotic religious intrusion. It's only a mater of time.

[Eaglestrike]

Furthermore.. with education comes choices. Rape crisis centers offer day after pills to prevent a rape victim from getting pregnant.. there is no reason this should be an issue in an informed society.

You might want to reword that. You make it sounds as if it's the victims fault for getting pregnant. There are many different possibilities of someone being raped that you can't generalize a couple situations as: "There is no reason this should be an issue in a informed society". Not to mention rape crisis centers or hot lines don't offer services if you can't get to them (being raped by a one of your own family member and/or being held against your will).

I see abortion in the near future as an situation that will one day be a matter of personal choice instead of governmental regulations with rules and lacking of offensive harassment from idiotic religious intrusion. It's only a mater of time.

I'm not quite sure how I'd reword it. No, it's certainly not the rape victims fault they got pregnant, but if they aren't able to get to a rape crisis center in a couple days it's their fault for not doing such. I don't see how there would be anything more important than trying to get the rapist in trouble and make sure you don't have more long term issues from the ordeal than emotional trauma. Even if it's a family member and such, you should at least be able to get out of the house for a little bit of time, right? Except maybe really young girls who couldn't get an abortion without parents consent in most states anyway.

I hope to see abortion used less and less as we move on. The more educated we are as a nation, the less need there is for the practice. I'd hope more people would want us to become more educated as we move on...

[finale23]

I've got nothing nice to say about men that want to pass laws that govern the reproductive functions of women

i think this makes us even.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ ... 1-14-03-10





/not a prolifer

[Axil]

I dont know about you guys but $500 to cure the worlds worst disease seems like a good price

[Bethany]

I've got nothing nice to say about men that want to pass laws that govern the reproductive functions of women

i think this makes us even.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ ... 1-14-03-10





/not a prolifer

If you think that child support payment is unfair.... check out this one.

A doctor who carried out a failed contraceptive operation has been ordered by a German court to pay financial support for the child.

The gynaecologist had inserted a patch into the patient's arm, but it failed to prevent pregnancy six months later.

The woman, who had recently qualified as a teacher, had to give up her new job to care for her child.

The highest judicial court has ruled the doctor must pay 600 euros (£400) a month until the child reaches 18.

German gynaecologists now fear a flood of lawsuits, says the BBC's Steve Rosenberg in Berlin.

The decision in Karlsruhe, made on Tuesday, has met with disapproval in the German press.

The conservative Die Welt said the whole idea of damages being paid for the birth of a child was "perverse": "In addition to the highly private inkling that he was not wanted by his parents, he now has official confirmation that he was born by mistake," it said.

The device is meant to protect against pregnancy for up to three years, but six months after the operation, the implant could no longer be found in the woman's body, the court said.

The parents, who had known each other six months at the time of the conception, were no longer together, the court said.

The father will also be compensated for the maintenance he is paying for the child.

[finale23]

I dont know about you guys but $500 to cure the worlds worst disease seems like a good price

until of course, prolifers added their hypocritical sense of morals/ethics into the equation, even though knowing those stem cells would be discarded by fertility clinics anyways.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm not quite sure how I'd reword it. No, it's certainly not the rape victims fault they got pregnant, but if they aren't able to get to a rape crisis center in a couple days it's their fault for not doing such.

This shows a severe lack of understanding of the shame, humiliation and fear that many rape victims feel, especially in the days following a rape. Many rape victims don't feel comfortable at all telling their closest friends or family members, much less complete strangers what happened to them for a long time following such a traumatic event. Expecting most rape victims to be able to "just snap out of it and do what needs to be done" in that time frame is exceptionally naive and foolish.

[Navia]

I'm not quite sure how I'd reword it. No, it's certainly not the rape victims fault they got pregnant, but if they aren't able to get to a rape crisis center in a couple days it's their fault for not doing such.

This shows a severe lack of understanding of the shame, humiliation and fear that many rape victims feel, especially in the days following a rape. Many rape victims don't feel comfortable at all telling their closest friends or family members, much less complete strangers what happened to them for a long time following such a traumatic event. Expecting most rape victims to be able to "just snap out of it and do what needs to be done" in that time frame is exceptionally naive and foolish.

well said