WHM Melee random crap

[hypnotizd]

If Mystic Boon is affected by Dual Wield, does that mean it's affected by Double Attack too?

I know for sure Mystic Boon is affected by dual weild. In campaign I'll pull ~200-400 depending on the mob. Sometimes I'll only hit for ~100 and get 1 TP return. So that should be pretty obvious. The fact that I hit for an average of around 200 and then spike up to 400 would lead me to believe that my Brutal Earring kicked in and I'm actually hitting 3-4 times.

[Ultimagi]

I shouldn't have assumed it was a magic weapon skill, silly Square-Enix.

[TummieGaruda]

I almost don't believe some of the mod percentages that are on the wiki. For example, the Randgrith mods were on the wiki before anyone even completed a Mjollnir. Everyone assumes STR is a mod for Hexa/Randgrith/Mystic Boon, but I haven't seen any really good tests proving it is.

Would be easy to test now with the +25 STR campaign neckpiece. Get tags, go hunt some TW mobs do a WS naked, then do another WS loaded up on STR (+45 STR shouldn't be too hard with that necklace on WHM) and then compare the results with large sample sizes.

With Hexa Strike, the reason why it doesn't seem like STR raises damage by much is because it has a low mod on it. 20% STR means that for every 7 STR you raise your damage by 1 (Value is floored). As to why people suggest that you focus on STR, the reason is because it will raise your fstr value. Mjollnir has an fstr cap value of 14, so every 3 str over the mobs vit roughly adds 1 DMG. Once you have 52 more str than the mob has vit, Fstr value will be capped. So Adding say 7 STR will raise your fstr by 2 dmg and your WS mod dmg by 1 for a total of +3 dmg.

[RyaWHM]

Everyone assumes STR is a mod for Hexa/Randgrith/Mystic Boon, but I haven't seen any really good tests proving it is.

From what I saw, the initial assumption for Boon was actually MND/INT, but that doesn't really matter... anyway:

My testing: Mystic Boon STR test @ 02.10.2009

Those, with all the other testing (in this thread esp.@pg24,25), seemed to be accepted by everyone at the time ... if I need to re-test, I'd like to know about it.

I did not see any indication that it was not conclusive, but I don't care really, I just wanna know if it's right or wrong, and if it's wrong, test more and fix it.

====

@Tubbers: Thanks for clearing that up, I don't know any better ... I just asked in "What's Better" and was told it was very close to 1:1 assuming the "questionable" Str30% & Mnd50%.

So the ratio is actually about 5:6 then? (ignoring attack) That's far enough away from 1:1 that...I would not call it "almost 1:1" >.>

EDIT: changed the links slightly, hoping to avoid confusion

[Izzy]

Time to do this again!

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...untitled-1.jpg

What do you choose!?!?!

WS
I think maybe Attack +7/Accuracy +7. Right now Blessed is the best to WS in, and I would assume the +7 Attack is going to outdo the MND on Blessed. This is assuming you're using a Kraken Club. Maybe DA/Attack?

TP
3% Haste/Accuracy +7 or 3% Haste/DA +2% hands down. If you have Blessed +1, you already have 4% haste in that slot, you might wanna look into WS options.

What do you think!?

[Myrna]

I'm not sure at all, I love how my whm looks in melee gear currently so I'm hesitant to put dragon pants with haste/something especially since attack/da or acc sounds good as a ws option.

Still working on her gear but she'll eventually get a perdu wand, and boon... Eventually. (about 8000 pts to go!)

[Tsuko_Asura]

Time to do this again!

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...untitled-1.jpg

What do you choose!?!?!

WS
I think maybe Attack +7/Accuracy +7. Right now Blessed is the best to WS in, and I would assume the +7 Attack is going to outdo the MND on Blessed. This is assuming you're using a Kraken Club. Maybe DA/Attack?

TP
3% Haste/Accuracy +7 or 3% Haste/DA +2% hands down. If you have Blessed +1, you already have 4% haste in that slot, you might wanna look into WS options.

What do you think!?

inb4 get cure potency+

[RyaWHM]

@Izzy:

I hope you mean Blessed@WS just for Boon... because for Hexa, Volunteer/Hydra is way better.

==========

Anyway, for Hexa, I'd do Acc+Att or Acc+DA.

But for TP, I'd do Haste+Acc, no question. The DA isn't appealing, not only because you and I use Kraken, but also because it would represent at most a 2% increase in hits/time, whereas even right below ACC cap, going from 91.5% to 95% hitrate is still a 3.8% increase in hits/time.

(unless I have that allllllll wrong, if so, please lemme know)

Now, compared to TPing in Blessed+1, we're both at 26%, but it's really only 25.25% if I remember right. So moving from 25.25% to 25% should only be something like 0.5% (depending on total haste amount):

@40.25% -> 40.00% (spell+gear) = loss of ~0.4% hits/time
@50.25% -> 50.00% (+song?) = loss of ~0.5% hits/time
@60.25% -> 60.00% (+songs?) = loss of ~0.6% hits/time

I'm not sure that's 100% right, but it's pretty close.

So, after that you add Acc+7 and now you're gaining a minimum of ~3.8% hits/time
(or more like +4.3~4.5% hits/time, if you're in the 75~80% hitrate before this)

---> net gain of ~3.3% hits/time (or more!)

==========

Is that math even right?
I hope someone will confirm/correct all the stuff above!

But it seems pretty clear to me that for the pure meleeWHM, Haste+Acc is the best overall.

==========

My problem with making it melee this time is...

WSacc+15, Str+4, Att+5 ... vs ... 3% curepot (avg increase of ~2.3% from previous cures)
(compared to Optical Hat, and assuming 27% prior curepot)

...is way easier to decide than...

Acc+7 ... vs ... 5% curepot (avg increase of ~3.9% from previous cures)


I mean, you could even get the best of both worlds before (+3% curepot, and still room for WSacc+15 as an improvement over O.Hat) -- but this time, you need Haste+Acc together, there's not much point in combining Curepot+5 with either, since we have Volunteer's (acc+6) and Blessed (3%).

I'm still debating on this one ... and if I get the 5%, I'm gonna want the 3% on my hat ... so I can reach
50% CUREPOT OMGGGGG*

(*while /NIN with Asklepios and using JSE ring, but still...)

[Kriz]

I'm quite happy with Blessed+1 and Hydra Brais (10acc) for TP/WS.

But if you don't have Blessed+1 and want a good melee TP choice Haste+3 / Acc+7 imo. Acc/Att for Hexa is a good choice, but Volunteer's Brais is Acc+6 so is 1acc 7 attack worth the whole piece?

[Izzy]

Acc/Att for Hexa is a good choice, but Volunteer's Brais is Acc+6 so is 1acc 7 attack worth the whole piece?

That's probley what I'm going to end up doing. I'm already at the haste cap, so getting the legs as a TP piece is going to put me below the cap.

[Myrna]

Only thing I can think of is bellicose vs prism for a current test until those are released in a week.

Also, math betrays me and tells me my tp set must stop matching. Clearly, math must die.

[Kriz]

As a Relicless+Krakenless+Gaiterless WHM (but with a snazzy beard) I'm going to ignore my melee WHM yearnings and get moderately fast pants so I can run around willynilly. God it's gonna suck to idle in those Dragon things after all the years of Blessed/Aristo whiteness

[RyaWHM]

I'm already at the haste cap, so getting the legs as a TP piece is going to put me below the cap.

Umm...

@40.25% -> 40.00% (spell+gear) = loss of ~0.4% hits/time
@50.25% -> 50.00% (+song?) = loss of ~0.5% hits/time
@60.25% -> 60.00% (+songs?) = loss of ~0.6% hits/time[/COLOR]

---> net gain of ~3.3% hits/time (or more!)

... ummmmmm ... am I missing something here?

[Kriz]

... ummmmmm ... am I missing something here?

Pretty much that dropping from 26 to 25 drops him from the cap (which I believe is more like 25.5/6 than 25.25). That's all, I'd guess.

Haste+3/Acc+7 is a bigger boost when you aren't at that cap with Blessed Trousers +1, like you are only 2/3 Blessed+1, than if you are. For your average melee WHM who'd get this, now you can wait to get HQ trousers until last- if at all, really.

Also, with Randgrith's 20acc aftermath being spammed with Kraken, I'd presume the extra haste has a more potent effect.

[RyaWHM]

I still think it's unwise to use Randgrith over Hexa for pure damage, but I've only used the WS twice, so I dunno for sure. Very skeptical!

I would expect Rand to do ~half the damage of Hexa, at most.

So, I guess I really doubt the +20acc is gonna make up for that.

[Izzy]

The most important thing about a WHM with a Kraken is getting to 100 TP as fast as possible. I'm already parsing 90% in merits, so there is no reason to be adding more accuracy and dump something that is going to get me to 100 faster.

[RyaWHM]

The most important thing about a WHM with a Kraken is getting to 100 TP as fast as possible. I'm already parsing 90% in merits, so there is no reason to be adding more accuracy and dump something that is going to get me to 100 faster.

Problem #1:
90.0 -> 93.5% gets you 100TP faster than 25.0% -> 26% (I'm 99% sure of this)

Problem #2:
I assume you only have 90% if you're spamming Rand, which is much weaker than Hexa (99% sure of this too)

Even if it's a full 1% you're giving up (but it's not?), you still need to be at
74% total haste in order for them to even out:

Haste: 74% -> 75% = (1-25/26) = 3.846% increase

Acc: 90% -> 93.5% = (93.5/90-1) = 3.888% increase

...and even there, the acc technically is a tiny tiny bit better...

(I'm still waiting for someone to come in and say I'm wrong about these numbers...wait for it...is it gonna happen? no? really?)

EDIT: preeeetty sure my acc= 1-x/x was supposed to be acc= x/x-1

[whackwhackwhm]

Problem #1:
90.0 -> 93.5% gets you 100TP faster than 25.0% -> 26% (I'm 99% sure of this)

Problem #2:
I assume you only have 90% if you're spamming Rand, which is much weaker than Hexa (99% sure of this too)

Even if it's a full 1% you're giving up (but it's not?), you still need to be at
74% total haste in order for them to even out:

Haste: 74% -> 75% = (1-25/26) = 3.846% increase

Acc: 90% -> 93.5% = (1-93.5/90) = 3.888% increase

...and even there, the acc technically is a tiny tiny bit better...

(I'm still waiting for someone to come in and say I'm wrong about these numbers...wait for it...is it gonna happen? no? really?)

------

Hello,

To Izzy: Your parsing of 90% accuracy on merit party, is that with or without party support accuracy buff? Is that with full max haste gear setup? I am assuming your talking about greater colibri merit party. How much does your hexastrike does on them birds?


Here is a video on youtube.com (watch?v=eG31udoKWDs) of my whm trying to solo chain the imps. Even on this video I still miss considerably and certainly not getting 90% accuracy. this was my first and only try on these mobs and had max haste setup with sole sushi as food and almost max accuracy on other possible spots. I use rajas ring instead of toreador ring for the other ring spot, just in case you are curious.

I also tried solo chaining the skellies at KRT, tarantulas at Dragon Aery, and spongeflies at Caedarva Mire and accuracy was my biggest issue when trying to get to chain 4 and 5. Maybe with this new expansion, the accuracy/haste option on legs will resolve this issue. I think Izzy you can test this for us since you already have all the possible gears a WHM DD gear could wish for. Would like to see a chain 5 video of them mobs.

[Argettio]

Problem #1:
90.0 -> 93.5% gets you 100TP faster than 25.0% -> 26% (I'm 99% sure of this)

Problem #2:
I assume you only have 90% if you're spamming Rand, which is much weaker than Hexa (99% sure of this too)

Even if it's a full 1% you're giving up (but it's not?), you still need to be at
74% total haste in order for them to even out:

Haste: 74% -> 75% = (1-25/26) = 3.846% increase

Acc: 90% -> 93.5% = (1-93.5/90) = 3.888% increase

...and even there, the acc technically is a tiny tiny bit better...

(I'm still waiting for someone to come in and say I'm wrong about these numbers...wait for it...is it gonna happen? no? really?)

Your numbers are right bar the bit about moving from 74-75%. You aren't gaining a full 1%. Going to 26% gear haste you are gaining ~0.6% from rounding errors on descriptions.

[RyaWHM]

Your numbers are right bar the bit about moving from 74-75%. You aren't gaining a full 1%. Going to 26% gear haste you are gaining ~0.6% from rounding errors on descriptions.

Dingdingding! Finally we have a winner! Thanks, lol ...

Okay, so, revision time!

you need to be at
84.5% total haste in order for them to even out:

Haste: 84.50% -> 85.10% = (1-15.5/14.9) = 3.870% increase

Acc: 90% -> 93.5% = (93.5/90-1) = 3.888% increase

...and even there, the acc technically is a tiny tiny bit better...

...and it's impossible because that's above the haste cap?

==========

See I'm really not trying to be negative... I just want verification because my setup is VERY close to yours:
same setup except Gullintani instead of Mjollnir.
(for a little while longer, anyway)

So I'm trying to iron this out for my own benefit, just as much as hoping to help Izzy.