WHM Melee random crap

[nitsuj]

Cool thanks... Yeah, it's goading/mars. I saw a mars the other day for 3m and passed it... wish I had bought it. Now I'm looking to try to find one again :/

[RyaWHM]

Q#1: RR+GH+SQ for MjollyKC = good?
I've been wondering how RR/GH/SQ would do wearing +20 STP (+40 total). Supposedly this would take me from 20-hit to 14-hit. In other words, an average of ~3 rounds instead of ~4 rounds (33% increase in WS frequency).

((308+264 delays)*.67 dual wield)/2 [each hand] = ~191 (5.2tp/hit)

Sidenote: WHM can get up to +25 STP from gear (by my count) with capped haste! Not too bad for lame little mage gears!

Q#2: RR+GH = critcap?
Wiki says AtmaCrit caps at 50%, is this true? If so, would Sanguine Scythe (+20% crit dmg) be better than Scorpion Queen (STP+20)? Or perhaps Stout Arm is better than either of those, since WHM has low STR/att?
Note: Sanguine gives +30% but again is supposedly similarly capped at 50%, so you lose 10% of it due to that.

Keep in mind that, due to Kraken, I don't want DA/TA atmas like Apocalypse/VV etc. I'm looking at you Tsuko...! >.>

Triple Attack version:

Spoiler: show

Assumptions (to make it easier):
• KC = 4 swings avg (it's actually 3.82 single or 3.80 dw)
• Main = 100 damage/swing avg
• KC = 20 damage/swing avg
• Only 1% TA, no other gear/buffs to worry about
• 100% accuracy

-- For 1%TA, in 100 rounds (100main,100off) you'll get 1 mainhand TA and 1 offhand TA. You'll also get 99 non-TA rounds (each hand).

So starting with the 99 main and 99 off:
99x100=9900 damage from Main
99x20x4=7920 damage from KC
Total = 17820 damage and 495 units of TP

-- Now for TA (1 each):

Let's do the Mainhand first:
100 @ 1 unit of TP
turns to
100+100+100 @ 3 units of TP
17920 damage -> 18120 damage (+200)
496 tp units -> 498 tp units (+2)


Now for the offhand KC:
20+20+20+20 @ 4 units of TP
turns to
20+20+20 @ 3 units of TP
18200 damage -> 18180 damage (-20)
502 tp units -> 501 tp units (-1)

Net changes:
Total damage: +180 (+0.99%)
Total TP units: +1 (+0.2%)

...so, as a percentage of total, each 1%TA is giving:
~0.99% more melee damage
~0.2% more TP

Q#3: AA for MjollyKC = notgood?
This suggests AA would give me ~15% more melee damage, and maybe ~2.5% more WS damage (3000 -> 3450 damage 15% of the time; 0.15*0.15=0.0225).
Note: The other 15% figure is a coincidental estimation of hexa's ~7 hits, where you have 6 mainhand hits and 1 small KC hit, turning into 8 mainhand hits; this is not exactly an 8/7 boost, but that's roughly +15% so I went with it.

So ... not a good atma for me right?

[Julian]

Wiki is wrong. (/shocked)

Critical hit damage caps at +50%, and is not an "atma cap."

Critical hit rate can go to 95% or 100%, there were a few tests a while back saying that 100% was possible with thief roll or something, or maybe without, but either way, it caps at 95 or 100, and has no sorts of "atma cap" either.

So RR+GH gives +50% critical hit rate and +30% critical hit damage. If you used sanguine scythe as your 3rd, you would reach the +50% critical hit damage cap. Or using Scorpion Queen will give +60% critical hit rate.

[RyaWHM]

Critical hit rate can go to 95% or 100%, there were a few tests a while back saying that 100% was possible with thief roll or something, or maybe without, but either way, it caps at 95 or 100, and has no sorts of "atma cap" either.

I found this:

From alla

Also of note: Synthetic Atma of the Dark Depths (no idea what it's from, but I had it available). Minor agi, minor evasion, Major Crit Rate. GH is Minor crit rate with ~20%; RR is Major crit rate with ~30%. While DD isn't as good defensively as GH, it could very well trump the rest for offense when paired with RR.

Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Tigerwoods           117480   95.07 %     578/36   94.14 %    50/172   105.20    427   121/322  237.93   73.88 %

Results from testing it is the came crit rate I get from GH + RR


So either crits from atma cap at +50, or it's mislabeled (I know total crit rate isn't capped because Kirschy did testing on that).

Suggesting atma-specific cap of 50% as I saw on wiki.

Although I have to believe having ~200 dex will cap my DEXvsAGI part of it most of the time, so with merits, even if there is a 50% cap from atma, I should have 74%.

Any thoughts on the STP stuff?

[Mercilessturtle]

No, it suggests DD is 20% crit rate, which it is.

[RyaWHM]

I thought Cream Soda was one of the smarter mathy guys, I guess I assumed his quote included a capped rate (24%) before the atmas -- even though the alla part didn't have a link. But ... you're saying the quoted thing is 70% atma, 3.88% dex, and that the player had zero crit merits? That seems ... not quite right.

Can you please elaborate?

EDIT: plus nobody corrected him, that I saw, in the original post. If it was that simple, seems like people would have jumped all over him (?)

[Pendulum]

20+4+30+20=74

?

Edit: Misread the parse: 'minor', 'major' and 'superior' are not absolute values. Cosmos gives major dark attack (+40); Claw gives major earth attack (+30). Hero gives minor str (+10) and Sellsword is also minor (+20).

[Clash Perez]

What they're talking about is the inconsistency in labeling when it comes to atma. Both Dark Depths and Gnarled Horn give +20% critical hit rate, but they're labeled Major and Minor respectively.

There is no artifical cap to total critical hit rate. RR+GH+DD+ capped dDEX will give ~94% critical hit rate, which can be further improved with +rate gear.

[Martinius]

ok, i've read every post since november and didn't find an answer -

assuming that either Dagan club or a kclub isn't an option, what are my two best clubs (mainhand/offhand) for whm DD? i've gotten strangely addicted to magian trials. >.>

[nitsuj]

I'm gonna go with the OAT club (naboot +2) as a strong contender.

[Julian]

As stated, RR+GH+DD+ddex gives 95% crit.

I wouldn't state this if I hadn't tested it myself.

[Martinius]

That's what I figured for offhand, but not sure about mainhand bc otherwiki hasn't updated their charts to show +2 base dmg for ws dmg, tp bonus, double attack and store tp. I figure it's not gonna be tp bonus bc it doesn't do much for hexa but wasn't sure about the other three options.

[RyaWHM]

20+4+30+20=74

?

Okay, I must be really stupid, so let's label these to make it easy to follow:
20 (dex)
4 (merit)
30 (rr)
20 (gh)
=74%
...where is Dark Depths? Missing another 20, it should be 94% in that parse...

-or-

20 (dark depths)
4 (merit)
30 (rr)
20 (gh)
=74%
...so where is the [at least] 5% from DEX? It should be 79%~94% based on that...

That's why earlier I said:

70% atma, 3.88% dex, and that the player had zero crit merits? That seems ... not quite right.

In other words, you said GH+DD+RR should give 94%, so why does he have 74%? 4% dex & zero merits seriously?

As stated, RR+GH+DD+ddex gives 95% crit.

I wouldn't state this if I hadn't tested it myself.

Okay, I'm content to write off that confusing Cream Soda quote (and the math earlier in this post) as bad info/misunderstanding/typo/whatever.

Thank you for the first-hand info, and I'm glad they all work together!

EDIT: I have also since found this thread, in which Kinematics addresses this combination of atmas specifically (that they all stack just fine).

[Mercilessturtle]

Because he wasn't using GH, just RR and DD.

[Niiro]

That's what I figured for offhand, but not sure about mainhand bc otherwiki hasn't updated their charts to show +2 base dmg for ws dmg, tp bonus, double attack and store tp. I figure it's not gonna be tp bonus bc it doesn't do much for hexa but wasn't sure about the other three options.

Some of them are there, just not linked on the main page.

WSDMG/STP(+15) is 61/288
TP bonus 56/288

OA2 is most likely 57-58/340
DA is probably 68-69/340

WSDMG/OA2 is a solid combo, seems high in the delay department but it's only 265 after /NIN+suppa+capped gear+haste spell but I'd think it's real weakness would be lack of ATK to back up all that base damage.

Replacing OA2 with an STR/ATK (~45/210) might be a good alternative, actual melees need to be concerned about their ATK, a WHM is already playing catchup.

DA/ATK might also make a decent combo, lots of main hand base damage and essentially a DA trait on a weapon (goes nicely with a 6+1 hit WS).

WSDMG/OA2 and WSDMG/ATK are probably the more well rounded combos.

[Julian]

Because he wasn't using GH, just RR and DD.

^^ this, lol

[Alkimi]

Had a look at the trials myself with the moogle. The 3 clubs you mention end up as:

DMG:58 Delay:340
Occ. atk. twice

DMG:70 Delay:340
Double Attack+10

DMG:61 Delay:288
WS Damage+10%

The double attack one looks pretty nice, although looking at the trial it's a ridiculously long one and would probably be quicker doing full empyrean:

3x Stray Mary
3x Hawkeyed Dnatbat
3x Dune Widow
400x Plantoids
300x Ladybugs
500x Beasts
600x Aquans
400x Gnats
600x Demons
30x Piasa (NM in Abyssea-LaTheine)
20x Twilight Soul
50x Decrescent Shade

[Niiro]

Yea the WSDMG is much easier and a more well-rounded weapon overall I think, if you have a friend with a Kclub you could borrow the trials go from easy to laughable.

The WSDMG club has the better DPS for TPing and you're not relying on chance to boost your WSs, just need to find the right off-hand to compliment it in the given situation (OA2 and ATK being the most likely candidates imo).

[dannyl]

ok, i've read every post since november and didn't find an answer -

assuming that either Dagan club or a kclub isn't an option, what are my two best clubs (mainhand/offhand) for whm DD? i've gotten strangely addicted to magian trials. >.>

I'm going after the WS DMG club as my main and off-hand club being the Double Attack+10. May be a good start

[nitsuj]

I'm going after the WS DMG club as my main and off-hand club being the Double Attack+10. May be a good start

Double Attack club has 70 base damage right? That isn't a bad main hand club