WHM Melee random crap

[Fredjan]

Grats! Yeah, the trials are much more bearable now... first trial wasn't -horrid- (at least you could get a few per mob, instead of 1 per mob) but 1.5k WS kills was pretty crazy if you ask me.

MjoKC Army +1 woohoo!!!!!

Yeah, I feel gimp without a KC I'd only have so much more fun with it.

[Martinius]

i suck at teh mathz, so had a little trouble following the previous discussion, but what i wanted to ask was:

barring a kclub, is the OAT2-4 better than the high dmg OAT club for offhand?

or, especially inside abyssea, does the double attack club pull ahead?

[Eldelphia]

i suck at teh mathz, so had a little trouble following the previous discussion, but what i wanted to ask was:

barring a kclub, is the OAT2-4 better than the high dmg OAT club for offhand?

or, especially inside abyssea, does the double attack club pull ahead?

I second this question... Essentially I'm looking at creating the club I want to offhand with gambanteinn (29/50 + 18/50) and don't know which to go for...

[RyaWHM]

By my estimation, with 75% crit and +30% crit damage (RR+GH/DD), the OA4 should be doing about 125 damage per hit on average*, and DA should be doing about 220. So adjusting hits/round, they should both be like ~250 damage per round. You should get TP faster, which makes OA4 win, but it does depend on which atmas you use ...

*These averages include both critical and non-critical hits!

Outside Abyssea they were saying OA4 is worse than DA, but then determined they were pretty close (if I read them right).

I would recommend the OA4 if for no other reason than the hope that it gets KC-like at 99! :)

EDIT: I forgot to specify, the damage-per-hit or damage-per-round values above, are based on me fighting a lesser mob like T/VT ops stuffs. I have no idea how OA4 vs DA damage would scale to NM's or whatever else you might melee >.>

[Martinius]

awesome rya, thanks for explaining. ^^

[nitsuj]

Damn now you have me doubting the OAT club... I'm almost done! I guess I could just do both >.>

I was doing OAT under the assumption that many times as WHM/NIN in "real" (read:non-solo) situations, I wouldn't want to feed tons of TP to the mob, so it should be good. And I can always buy a KC some day down the line to use when TP feed doesn't matter... Seems like sound logic to me, no?

[Nareyon]

So i was wondering if Pipilaka Belt with 6 str and 6 dex would be better than the Light belt outside abyssea for Hexa Strike? I'm guessing with the str stats inside, most would be over if they have a good set. But what about outside?

[Alkimi]

Got Mjollnir to 90 (Wasn't as bad as I thought) and Randgrith seems to be a lot better on mobs with high defence, better even than Hexa Strike. For instance we killed the voidwatch vampire NM in Meriphataud and Randgrith was doing ~700 whereas hexa was barely breaking 3 digits.

Could possibly his retarded evasion at work (was at ~40% accuracy with SV madrigal and Lv.3 Aftermath) but nice to know the buffed up WS has it's uses, the evasion down effect probably helped other melees aswell.

[Clave]

Yeah, Randgrith was outdoing Hexa Strike every time on Overlord Bakgodek a few years back when we killed him even before magian trials were implemented. It's probably at least in part due to the high evasion, but it may be worth looking into defense as well.

[Byrthnoth]

Got Mjollnir to 90 (Wasn't as bad as I thought) and Randgrith seems to be a lot better on mobs with high defence, better even than Hexa Strike. For instance we killed the voidwatch vampire NM in Meriphataud and Randgrith was doing ~700 whereas hexa was barely breaking 3 digits.

Could possibly his retarded evasion at work (was at ~40% accuracy with SV madrigal and Lv.3 Aftermath) but nice to know the buffed up WS has it's uses, the evasion down effect probably helped other melees aswell.

Here is how you would test that:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/680...-bonus-Testing

[Izzy]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with evasion. Everything I've ever used a WS on being hit capped has taken way more damage from Hexa.

[RyaWHM]

I'm trying to decide if /DNC can make up for lost DOT (lower dual wield) via Haste Samba + Reverse Flourish.

If Haste Samba is always on:
NIN is 3.9% faster DOT naturally
NIN is 4.8% faster DOT with Suppa
NIN is 5.3% faster DOT with Suppa + ACP

Basically any time I overflow from KC to 110% TP or more, I can Step > WS. (happens often!)
Then after 5 instances of that I can Reverse Flourish to reclaim the otherwise lost overflow TP (and prolly self-SC if I wanna).

It's fun, but I can't figure out how good/bad a deal Haste Samba is (solo) ...

Can anyone help me with this one, pweeeez?

[Rez]

Using /Dnc as a sub job has its advantages, however there are points you're going to have to bear in mind if it isn't offering something absolutely vital to your activity at the time(stun from violent flourish comes to mind, when DW meleeing):

With every use of a JA you're introducing a delay into your attack rounds. While you're getting self skill chains from using 5 steps followed by reverse flourish in the example you provided, you're adding 6xJADelay to that sequence, not including the added WS. Depending on timing it's roughly 2s per JA so that's around 12s.

You're obviously getting the benefit of whatever step you used (defence down is useful) and the Self SC, but from a pure Delay perspective as you have asked, compared to /Nin you've thrown in the towel at that stage.

There are other factors to consider such as the TP lost in using various Dancer abilities.

It's up to you if the pros outweigh the cons, and will depend on how judicious you are with the JA spam, it will be hard for someone to quantify for you.

[RyaWHM]

Thanks for the reply!

2 seconds seems awfully high though, Step>WS feels more like 1 second or less, esp. since I can do a normal macro:
Step > Wait 1 > Hexa
or
Waltz > Wait 1 > Hexa

It seems like the delay is longer if I were to just Step, Step, Step, etc (I would lose more attack rounds)
But when I do a WS immediately after, it seems much shorter (1s instead of 2s maybe?)

...anyway, there's not a whole lot of reason to /DNC, just fun for echo-drop-lazy and self-SC-fun and stuffs.
(not to mention all the oOo PRETTY BUBBLES oOo from KC sambas!!)

[Byrthnoth]

JA Ability delay is two seconds, divided into two phases:
Phase 1 (1 second): You can take no other actions
Phase 2 (1 second): You cannot autoattack, but you can use other JAs/spells and bump yourself back to Phase 1.

[Niiro]

Basically the effects of JA delay are reduced when you use them in quick succession, if they're spread out with attack rounds in between it's more significant.

Watching your TP so that you know you'll have enough to step and WS and for when flourish is involved so it all remains coordinated can help. ie. you have 50-60 TP, use reverse (+60) -> use step (-10) -> use WS. The quick succession results in only suffering the post-action auto-attack delay once rather than 3 times.

[Invader]

Using /Dnc as a sub job has its advantages, however there are points you're going to have to bear in mind if it isn't offering something absolutely vital to your activity at the time(stun from violent flourish comes to mind, when DW meleeing):

With every use of a JA you're introducing a delay into your attack rounds. While you're getting self skill chains from using 5 steps followed by reverse flourish in the example you provided, you're adding 6xJADelay to that sequence, not including the added WS. Depending on timing it's roughly 2s per JA so that's around 12s.

You're obviously getting the benefit of whatever step you used (defence down is useful) and the Self SC, but from a pure Delay perspective as you have asked, compared to /Nin you've thrown in the towel at that stage.

There are other factors to consider such as the TP lost in using various Dancer abilities.

It's up to you if the pros outweigh the cons, and will depend on how judicious you are with the JA spam, it will be hard for someone to quantify for you.

And you lose 5% more subtle blow from /nin D:

[RyaWHM]

Realmrazer to all, and to all a good night!

I hope it's worth losing crit because it even LOOKS and SOUNDS like Hexa+1!! :D

[Shenrien]

The animation is hexa strike with an extra hit, at least on mithra when I looked at the animations, I can't wait for testing to be done to see just how it holds up, the 3.6k ws shot that someone posted on an orc in jugner [s] is nice but I wanna see that thing used on something that has a bit more meat on it's bones.

[Alkimi]

Yeah I'd be more interested to see what a PLD, who has access to a lot better DD gear and 20 more skill in club can do against something hard.