WHM Melee random crap

[Amele]

300+sushi is still very low, that's 345 accuracy. You actually need more like 378-387 total accuracy to get an 80% hit rate on something like Greater Colibri I believe. And 417 accuracy to hit the 95% cap.

So 345 accuracy would actually be more like a 59% hit rate which I'd say is pretty poor. To get that 80% hit rate, you'd need 337 accuracy and sushi. I'm bored and just been reading this today. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Maximizing ... mage_Guide

I might be misinterpreting some of the equations, but anecdotally the numbers I'm coming up with seem correct.

greater colibri total evasion: 334/339.

hit rate at Accuracy - Evasion = 75% hit rate
345-334/339 = 9/6 = 4%/3% = 79%-78% hit rate

so 1% lower than I stated *shrugs*

300+sushi is only low relative to other sushi users. you'll have accuracy similar to a good (but not elite) meat build... without the meat.

welcome to the world of being a non-A class weapon. (haste is still better than more accuracy because of how much haste a whitemage can build up. you're walking around with ~35% before you even talk about putting a bard in your party if you've actually bothered to build a haste setup)

First off I was under the assumption that Greater Colibri have 341Eva on average, I got that number off Naga's post awhile back posting how much AGI they had ect...

2nd I was also under the assumption that hit rate was this =

hit_rate = 0.75 + 0.005 * ((your_acc - mob_eva) - 4 * (mob_level - your_level))

Therefore,

hit_rate = 0.75 + 0.005 * ((345 - 341) - 4 * (82 - 75))
= 0.75 + 0.005 * ((4) - 4 * (7))
= 0.75 + 0.005 * (4 - 28)
= 0.75 + 0.005 * (-24)
= 0.75 + -0.12
= 63% Hit rate

good point, I neglected the level adjustment in my calculations; I was going of off valyana's numbers (which indicated total evasions a couple points lower, although it'd only be 1 or 2% hit rate total difference between naga and valyana.)

so at this point, using your numbers, to enjoy 80% with sushi you'd need to have.. 365 total accuracy, (really close to the 360 you suggested) you'll need about 318 accuracy before food, you can get 294 from whm/nin with full merits. (200+(56+16)*0.9skill + 60dex/2) so you'd need around 28 accuracy from gear. (so uh, 2x snipers, PCC, tiphia sting, perdu wand latent, swift belt)

[Carnusty]

I wouldn't feel too bad about eating sushi on WHM...I know the gap between B+ and A- is somewhat large, but on NIN with full Katana merits, I still eat sushi practically everywhere I go (Aside from the Mire, or Colibri, of course).

The only accuracy I equip is in PCC, Belt, pants, and rings, coming to somewhere around ACC+30 when I TP (Usually about +40 or so on colibri, +50 on Mamool THF). I could get alot more if I was made of money, of course, but so far that puts me around 90% on mamool, and I get full procs on Blade:Jin quite often.

[Amele]

so uh..

staff for lolwhm DD?

and uh.. did SE just make claustrum decent? haha

[Rena]

It's a lot more useful than it used to be... you'll even have more acc/att with staff than club now, which is kinda weird, don't like that part at all. Staff WS still are kinda crappy damage-wise (where's my multi-hit Spirit Takers? ; ;), but they do have a lot better DPS. Not sure I want to think too much about that. <_<

[Izzy]

It's a lot more useful than it used to be... you'll even have more acc/att with staff than club now, which is kinda weird, don't like that part at all. Staff WS still are kinda crappy damage-wise (where's my multi-hit Spirit Takers? ; , but they do have a lot better DPS. Not sure I want to think too much about that. <_<

WHM Staff Skill is C-. You will definitely not have more accuracy than club with it, maybe attack, but the DPS is 100% horrible.

[Amele]

It's a lot more useful than it used to be... you'll even have more acc/att with staff than club now, which is kinda weird, don't like that part at all. Staff WS still are kinda crappy damage-wise (where's my multi-hit Spirit Takers? ; , but they do have a lot better DPS. Not sure I want to think too much about that. <_<

WHM Staff Skill is C-. You will definitely not have more accuracy than club with it, maybe attack, but the DPS is 100% horrible.

well. let's play a little.

base skill, club: 256, base accuracy: 250
base skill, staff: 230, base accuracy: 227
base dex: 60

club 250+60/2 = 280
staff 227+60 = 287

so it comes down to what clubs you wield (since the rest of the gear can be identical) and which grip you use.

that's.. kinda scary really.

[Izzy]

It's a lot more useful than it used to be... you'll even have more acc/att with staff than club now, which is kinda weird, don't like that part at all. Staff WS still are kinda crappy damage-wise (where's my multi-hit Spirit Takers? ; , but they do have a lot better DPS. Not sure I want to think too much about that. <_<

WHM Staff Skill is C-. You will definitely not have more accuracy than club with it, maybe attack, but the DPS is 100% horrible.

well. let's play a little.

base skill, club: 256, base accuracy: 250
base skill, staff: 230, base accuracy: 227
base dex: 60

club 250+60/2 = 280
staff 227+60 = 287

so it comes down to what clubs you wield (since the rest of the gear can be identical) and which grip you use.

that's.. kinda scary really.

haha oh dear, this update is so weird

[Amele]

I'd still use a hammer just for style.

oh, and it gets -worse- for club if you go whm/sam (lawl)

[Kriz]

It makes a lot of weird items more useful.

I have a Kinkobo (well, for 10k, who can't). I'd like to try it now. Primate Staff +1 is too expensive and rare,

KS30 Thyrussstab, mayhap it would be good.

Perdu Staff? Haven't looked at it.

Only problem is the lack of a nice WS. Spirit Taker/Retribution are your choices I'd think. I'm excited that Spirit Taker will land better.

Oh...

[
well. let's play a little.

base skill, club: 256, base accuracy: 250
base skill, staff: 230, base accuracy: 227
base dex: 60

club 250+60/2 = 280
staff 227+60 = 287

so it comes down to what clubs you wield (since the rest of the gear can be identical) and which grip you use.

that's.. kinda scary really.

I don't think this is true. Isn't the 1 DEX = 1 ACC deal only on DEX added to base?

Tabin Jupon/Bastok Mantle/Thunder Rings... all have a renewed use.

Needless to say, I am now very interested in working on my Staff.

WHM/SAM with max haste and Hasso (they stack), with Primate Staff+1 and Critical Hit grip that's 10% without merits...

[Amele]

considering it was done on an IT aern by a blackmage who was almost naked with a staff, (and that str = 1 attack is true for all strength, not just gear strength) I don't see why it *wouldn't* include the base.

[Izzy]

wooooo another question to add to this thread.

I was playing with Gullintani/Kraken in Dynamis yesterday doing Randgrith. Obviously, after I do the WS, it's incredibly hard to miss my next couple swings because of the Shield Break effect that the WS does to the mob. (It's fun seeing the screen fill with 8 swings with no misses ^O^/)

Now, it's implied that the Shield Break effect is -40 evasion on the mob. The additional effect on the WS says: "Additional effect: Temporarily improves accuracy", so my accuracy goes up as well as the mob's going down. (Kinda like on Metatron Torment, when you use WS, mob DEF drops, but yours goes up.)

How can I figure out how much +accuracy the WS gives to me?

[Fng]

Monster A: High Evasion

Add ACC until you get it to check as normal evasion (Lets say that number is 30)


WS Monster B (so you dont get the - Evasion)

Check Monster A and see how much acc you need to change the message to normal. (Lets say now that number is 10)


Difference would be 20 ACC gained from using the WS.




If you dont need to add any ACC then you know the ACC is at least 30, but it could be 50, so you will need to find higher level monsters to verify exactly how much ACC it is.

[Izzy]

Monster A: High Evasion

Add ACC until you get it to check as normal evasion (Lets say that number is 30)


WS Monster B (so you dont get the - Evasion)

Check Monster A and see how much acc you need to change the message to normal. (Lets say now that number is 10)


Difference would be 20 ACC gained from using the WS.




If you dont need to add any ACC then you know the ACC is at least 30, but it could be 50, so you will need to find higher level monsters to verify exactly how much ACC it is.

Well I guess I'm fucked because in Dynamis, everything is itg Q_Q.

NEED MORE COINS!!

[Fng]

I wonder if that -evasion is as strong as feint.. what's the duration? (guess it will be easy to check in ballista when you are done...)

Do other people notice the lower evasion?


And get cracking on the coins already!

[Izzy]

I wonder if that -evasion is as strong as feint.. what's the duration? (guess it will be easy to check in ballista when you are done...)

Do other people notice the lower evasion?


And get cracking on the coins already!

Yea they do, I actually go WHM/NIN to DL/Anteaus/Crystalle in Dynamis because of the -evasion when I do WS. It's really neat to be fighting a THF mob, and hear all the misses, then I do WS and all you can hear is, "CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK" from all the people who start to hit it haha.

All this stuff will be a bit easier to test in the diorama once I get stage 5.

[Izzy]

Oh yea, also need to test if the Shield Break effect stacks with Feint too.

[Izzy]

Necrooooooooo!

Well...I finally finished!!

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2...btainedyl2.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7032/gearry3.jpg

What you're looking at is my TP gear. Besides the obvious additions of HQ Mitts, Slacks, and Rings, I'm not seeing anything else I could improve on. I'm going to start using prudence torque full time because of the accuracy bonus.

One thing that is bothering me is, with HQ Mitts and Slacks I end up with +26% haste once the stupid Golliard Body drops. If the haste cap is 25% should I just sell one of my HQ blessed pieces and replace it with NQ because it's just going to waste? I heard something about the haste cap not being 25%, but it was in a WAR/DRK/something thread where people were commenting about lack of haste gear. I don't know if that applies to me or not.

Now on to WS gear.

If I don't list it, it's because I'm almost positive I have the best piece for it.

Head
I'm currently using a heavy MND setup obviously, however I'm still torn on if I should use a Voyager Sallet (3STR 4DEX) or a Healer's Cap +1 (7MND). Mathematically the Healer's Cap +1 edges out the Sallet.

Body
Currently using a Tabin Jupon +1 (STR2 DEX2 ACC7). Should I be trying to get a Blessed Briault +1 (MND6) until I can get the Marduk's Jubbah (+12MND) finished?

Back
Currently using R.K. Mantle thingy (MND2 STR2). Bellicose Mantle (ATK6) is my only other option...which isn't that hot.

Waist
Currently using a Potent Belt (STR3 ACC8). I don't think there's anything else. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Feet
Currently using Creek M Clomps (STR4). Going to use Marduk Crackows (MND10) when I get them I think.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I think I've got it figured out...but this is the first time I've ever done damage calcs/gear setups for damage so I think I need some advice.

[Amele]

thanks to kirshy in advance for this information.

most haste is expressed as an increment of 5/512 (except for very large chunks of haste, which generally don't appear on gear.) 10% haste if it existed on one piece would be ~51/512 10% haste on two 5% pieces is 50/512 (25/512 + 25/512)

the haste cap from gear is 25% or 128/512.

"25%" printed in gear would be only 125/512 (24.4%) unless you happen to have a black belt (the only gear piece I'm aware of that was indicated as having a non-increment of 5/512 exact haste - Rune Chopper might be the other depending on whether SE was generous, but the discrepency doesn't get >=1/512 until 10% on one piece)

so for with few exceptions, you need 26% haste gear to reach the actual gear haste cap, but the final piece is 'only' worth about .6% over "25%" haste (which is really 24.4% haste).


as for gear questions:

head - I would probably wear the sallet because of accuracy concerns, 2% acc (4 dex) raises your expected full hit hexa's about 5.6% at 85% base accuracy. if your base accuracy is lower than that it will increase it more, if higher, less. tl;dr, I think 2% accuracy will outweigh .05 stat difference (which will generally disappear in truncation anyway).

body - again, you're using a six hit weaponskill: the phrasing from asuran is pretty accurate: the primary modifier for asuran(hexa) is accuracy, the secondary modifier is bard. I'd stick with the tabin but consider the jubbah if you were finishing it for other reasons. if you're already basically capped on accuracy (solo) then the blessed body will outperform the jupon but in exp it'd be a nuts pick, imo.

back - I'd need to know mob targets to get closer on this but I think you've made the right choice. (I don't feel like crunching the numbers on your stats and it's close enough that it doesn't really matter) push SE for a better melee back for mages, plz.

waist - your using the choice I would've recommended (see above comments about accuracy) if you feel confident about your acc, there's also buccaneer's belt from therion ichor purchases, but 1str and 15000 ampoules is probably not worth 8accuracy.

feet - those or Hydra gaiters (if you can get them) would be the best choices probably - again, hydra gaiters will improve hit counts in hexa noticeably.


hope that helps!

[Neosutra]

WS:
Keep Sallet.
Dont sacrifice your str peices for mnd.

Pray that SE releases some attack gear for you.

[Izzy]

thanks to kirshy in advance for this information.

most haste is expressed as an increment of 5/512 (except for very large chunks of haste, which generally don't appear on gear.) 10% haste if it existed on one piece would be ~51/512 10% haste on two 5% pieces is 50/512 (25/512 + 25/512)

the haste cap from gear is 25% or 128/512.

"25%" printed in gear would be only 125/512 (24.4%) unless you happen to have a black belt (the only gear piece I'm aware of that was indicated as having a non-increment of 5/512 exact haste - Rune Chopper might be the other depending on whether SE was generous, but the discrepency doesn't get >=1/512 until 10% on one piece)

so for with few exceptions, you need 26% haste gear to reach the actual gear haste cap, but the final piece is 'only' worth about .6% over "25%" haste (which is really 24.4% haste).


as for gear questions:

I have gear setups for Hexa Strike already. The WS gear I posted was for Randgrith, which is single hit. Do you have any suggestions for that? I'm guessing I won't need heavy accuracy for that.