Light Gorget and Shadow Gorget

[VZX]

Thanks for the retest Michaera. I'm not sure If I can explain those number in details though, since my computation shows that your max number w/o gorget suppose to be 669

  ((D +  fSTR  + WSC)*fTP +( DEX))*max_pDIF 
= ((27+ ( 3+8 )+ 33 )*2.0 +(79+2))*3.0 = 669

but yeah... I'm more inclined to older theory,
though test for shadow gorget on distortion would make it complete

[GSDragoon]

I'm sure there's plenty of DRGs with Shadow gorget for Penta Thrust.

If any of those said DRGs have DRK or WAR leveled, they can check Full Break, Steel Cyclone, Cross Reaper, Spiral Hell, or Ground Strike. Since there's no "reason" why they should be able to work (no Compression/Gravitation closer) it'll bring us much closer to a theory that "Shadow Gorget also works for WSs that can close level 3 Darkness"

75war/37thf
wearing nothing but byakko's axe
334 attack, 70 str, 63 vit
100% SA + steel cyclone to bunnies in Ronfaure


With shadow gorget
741
741
741
649 (ew)

Without
741
650? (with soil gorget) assuming SA missed or something weird
741 (again with soil)
659 (wtf)
678 (with berserk, if that matters, 417 attack)
741


Myth busted?

[VZX]

That'd be pretty much it.

gonna fukken bookmark this thread

[Kirschy]

If this has already been tried, I apologize, but I haven't seen anything about it.

From my own tests with gorgets, I have found that obviously the Primary elemental attribute gorget affects the WS damage by 10%. I know secondary is about 3%, and tetitary is about 1%. I'm pretti sure that is all tested/proven, although if I am wrong please correct me~

It's been tested and shown that if the primary attribute is a LV2 (Frag, Gravitation, Fusion, etc...) either elemental gorget will work for the full 10%, so both elements can be considered the primary.

Tests done by my friend /w a Mandau and Ruke's GKT show the Lv2 part of elemental attribute is secondary. Gravitation and Fragmentation in this case. It can be deduced for sure that the Lv3 attribute of the Relic WS (Darkness and Light) is the primary elemental attribute. But tests done by Ruke and others show the Lv3 Attribute doesn't work like a Lv2 attribute, and any element in the set of Darkness and Light does /not/ work as a primary element.

Which brings me to my theory on why Shadow and Light gorget require 2 Yorva organs. Is it possible that Shadow Gorget affects Dark(Lv1) and Darkness(Lv3) and Light Gorget affects Light(Lv1) and Light(Lv3)?

I have yet to see any tests on whether this is true or not. I'm trying my best to get Shadow + Soil gorget so I can run my own tests, but I haven't had that much time :/

This also brings me to my next question... When we run these tests our STR/Attack are capped on the Bunnies we fight. This would skew the results of Justice Torque vs Breeze Gorget on Kaiten. If I recall Breeze Gorget was raising damage by about 3% (Which of course would be more than the 5 STR from Justice in WS Modifier). On something like Wyrms, the STR and Attack from Justice (weighed in for the normal STR vs VIT and Attack vs Defense, not just WS Modifier) might outweigh the small increase from gorget. The other example would be Love Torque vs Mercy Stroke. In my friends tests he found that Love Torque > Soil Gorget for Mercy (I'm no THF expert but I imagine the Dagger Skill and DEX for SA were the factors). The question I pose is if the elemental gorgets are worth using on Relic WS if the slight increase from secondary attribute is the best we can get.

[Stolin]

From what I've seen, I think gorgets have an accuracy/attack relationship to the WS. So I don't think you would get very useful information off of level 1 bunnies.

And replying to Kirschy about his dagger info:
I think the love torque would be better than the soil gorget, because DEX is both a modifier for the WS, and also a modifier for Sneak attack. So you are getting higher yields from 1 attribute as a thief than other job's WSs.

Hope my info was mildy helpful/correct lol.

[Indalecia]

From what I've seen, I think gorgets have an accuracy/attack relationship to the WS. So I don't think you would get very useful information off of level 1 bunnies.

It's coming...can you here it?

[Michaera]

From what I've seen, I think gorgets have an accuracy/attack relationship to the WS. So I don't think you would get very useful information off of level 1 bunnies.

I was gonna check that too, was going to pop my Breeze Gorget on for some of those bites on the bunnies just to get a positive control, but alas, I got lazy and there was maintenance and yadda yadda. I did have one WS that I discarded because I thought I might have put Breeze on instead of Light for the test, but I couldn't tell from the result so I just threw it out.

As for why Light/Shadow take two Yovras each, I think it's just because SE hates us and wanted to be special for those two.

[kangel433]

SE seems to be having this "thing" for the light and dark elements >_>;

even in guild items, light and dark HQ crystals costs 500 guild point when other elements cost only 200GP >_> (yet we still use terra for majority of products we want to sign)

also, when you turn in crystals to gateguards for rank points when doing nation missions, dark and light crystals give you more rank points than normal elemental ones(just found out awhile ago when i switched nation to windurst >_>;; )

well those are the only things that i can think of right now besides barspells etc >_> but yea, i wouldn't be surprised to see light/dark gorgets not being any different from other elemental gorgets even if it uses 2 yovra organs.

[ringthree]

From my own tests with gorgets, I have found that obviously the Primary elemental attribute gorget affects the WS damage by 10%. I know secondary is about 3%, and tetitary is about 1%. I'm pretti sure that is all tested/proven, although if I am wrong please correct me~

Do you have proof of this? Because I have heard that this was not the case and that if the WS has any of the elemental property then it had the full effect.

Now I am going to have to go out and get more Yovra organs if it is true.

What about WS's that have primary and secondary aspects of the same elements?

[archibaldcrane]

From my own tests with gorgets, I have found that obviously the Primary elemental attribute gorget affects the WS damage by 10%. I know secondary is about 3%, and tetitary is about 1%. I'm pretti sure that is all tested/proven, although if I am wrong please correct me~

Going to have to ask for the source on this, I've never heard anything to that effect. What you are saying is that Soil Gorget - the primary attribute for Dancing Edge - will improve DE dmg by 10%(pDIF+.01), but Breeze Gorget - the secondary attribute for Dancing Edge - will only improve it by 3%(pDIF+.03). At endgame, these are the two gorgets most main thieves will get, and they seem to use them interchangably for Dancing Edge.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe you.

Because I have heard that ... if the WS has any of the elemental property then it had the full effect.

This is what I believe, and the effect, for in my example, using Soil or Breeze gorget for Dancing Edge will -all- have the same effect, and that effect will be to raise your pDIF # by .1 (and add a sizeable but extremely difficult to test amount of accuracy).

edited to clean up the stupid by me.

[ringthree]

This is what I believe, and the effect, for in my example, using Aqua, Snow, Soil, or Breeze gorget for Dancing Edge will -all- have the same effect, and that effect will be to raise your pDIF # by .1 (and add a sizeable but extremely difficult to test amount of accuracy).

To continue this reasoning it would seem that if what this person claims is true then the pDIF modifier would be .03 then .01. The later would be incredibly hard to even test for as the difference in damage could be attributed to random chance.

[archibaldcrane]

Naw, testing variations in pDIF isn't too hard. SA+WS on level 0 mob means your pDIF can only range between 2.6-3.0. Your highs will be 3.0, and there will be enough of a difference over time between 3.03 and 3.1 to be noticable. VZX could figure it out quickly

[VZX]

From what I've seen, I think gorgets have an accuracy/attack relationship to the WS. So I don't think you would get very useful information off of level 1 bunnies.

they might have direct accuracy modifier, but definitely not "attack" (the attribute "attack"). If it does, then the max WS damage won't increase on level 1 bunny. But the fact is, they do increase the max WS damage. So it doesn't directly affect attack

From my own tests with gorgets, I have found that obviously the Primary elemental attribute gorget affects the WS damage by 10%. I know secondary is about 3%, and tetitary is about 1%. I'm pretti sure that is all tested/proven, although if I am wrong please correct me~

Well... I've never really paid attention to primary/secondary/ternary SC properties, but it seems that they both increase fTP by 25/256(around that number... or in Ruke's Kaiten case... it's probably closer to 49/512).

If you remember where did you see it, could you please link it to me?

[divisortheory]

And replying to Kirschy about his dagger info:
I think the love torque would be better than the soil gorget, because DEX is both a modifier for the WS, and also a modifier for Sneak attack. So you are getting higher yields from 1 attribute as a thief than other job's WSs.

Hope my info was mildy helpful/correct lol.

DEX isn't a modifier for Mercy Stroke, unless I'm not understanding what you're saying.

[VZX]

dammit, double post.

[Kirschy]

Well I came up with 10% because on my Cross Reaper/Spiral Hell/Guillotine tests, the gorget added exactly 10%. I could go back and get those screen shots if people would like to see.

As for the 3rd Elemental Attribute... I've used Light Gorget on Slugshot(Light is 3rd on Slugshot) for drk/rng. And there was an increase each time the gorget used, but it was very minimal. (I compensated for distance by shooting pointblank and did 10 control tests, and 10 gorget tests) It was the same increase each time, and it was roughly 1% extra damage. Yet on Split Shot it was an exact 10%(Split shot is Light Primary).

Using Ruke's LJ, his gorget /w Kaiten was 1662, without was 1611. 1662-1611 = 51. 51 is roughly 3% of 1611. It would seem natural to assume that the gorget is not having the full effect. It was actualli his LJ that got me thinking about all of this. Anyway my major question out there is if anyone has a Relic Weapon and a Light/Shadow gorget and can confirm if it works better than using a gorget for the 2ndarys. Since Catastrophe is Darkness, Gravitation, I can compare damage using Shadow Gorget vs Soil. Maybe Ruke has Light Gorget and can compare /w Breeze. Or maybe someone with a Mandau has Shadow/Soil and can post some tests.

[Kirschy]

Just finished up Shadow Gorget and tested it out. Catastrophe /wout gorget was capping 1377. Catastrophe with Shadow Gorget was capping 1425. 1425-1377= 48... which is about 3% of 1377. With Shadow Gorget it is acting on Gravitation (The WS's secondary elemental attribute) and not Darkness. I am kinda disappointed :/. Also makes me wonder what is actualli better in merit/HNM situation when using the WS. I wouldn't be suprised if STR+5 Attack+7 will give me better results than the minor increase from gorget.

[LinktheDeme]

Well I came up with 10% because on my Cross Reaper/Spiral Hell/Guillotine tests, the gorget added exactly 10%. I could go back and get those screen shots if people would like to see.

As for the 3rd Elemental Attribute... I've used Light Gorget on Slugshot(Light is 3rd on Slugshot) for drk/rng. And there was an increase each time the gorget used, but it was very minimal. (I compensated for distance by shooting pointblank and did 10 control tests, and 10 gorget tests) It was the same increase each time, and it was roughly 1% extra damage. Yet on Split Shot it was an exact 10%(Split shot is Light Primary).

Using Ruke's LJ, his gorget /w Kaiten was 1662, without was 1611. 1662-1611 = 51. 51 is roughly 3% of 1611. It would seem natural to assume that the gorget is not having the full effect. It was actualli his LJ that got me thinking about all of this. Anyway my major question out there is if anyone has a Relic Weapon and a Light/Shadow gorget and can confirm if it works better than using a gorget for the 2ndarys. Since Catastrophe is Darkness, Gravitation, I can compare damage using Shadow Gorget vs Soil. Maybe Ruke has Light Gorget and can compare /w Breeze. Or maybe someone with a Mandau has Shadow/Soil and can post some tests.

Wait im not understanding how light isnt a primary for slug shot since it can close transifixion, which is a level 1 SC. Unless there is a different variable for being primary?

[VZX]

Just finished up Shadow Gorget and tested it out. Catastrophe /wout gorget was capping 1377. Catastrophe with Shadow Gorget was capping 1425. 1425-1377= 48... which is about 3% of 1377. With Shadow Gorget it is acting on Gravitation (The WS's secondary elemental attribute) and not Darkness. I am kinda disappointed :/. Also makes me wonder what is actualli better in merit/HNM situation when using the WS. I wouldn't be suprised if STR+5 Attack+7 will give me better results than the minor increase from gorget.

yeah... as I expected.. it's about fTP+0.1
1377/3.0 = 459
normal fTP for catastrophe is 2.75...
459/2.75 = 166.90909 -> 167 (your base damage)

if fTP is 2.85 (2.75+49/512, using 2 digit rounding), then before multiplying it with pDIF:
167*2.85 = 475.95 -> 475
475*3.0 = 1425 (exactly the same number you got)

Wait im not understanding how light isnt a primary for slug shot since it can close transifixion, which is a level 1 SC. Unless there is a different variable for being primary?

Reverberation should be Slugshot primary element. Transfixion is second and Detonation is third

[archibaldcrane]

Wait im not understanding how light isnt a primary for slug shot since it can close transifixion, which is a level 1 SC. Unless there is a different variable for being primary?

Primary/secondary/tertiary WS characteristics are about as esoteric as FFXI knowledge gets. Here is a chart, that is not really under any controvery, that spells out what they are:

http://venomweb.150m.com/ffxi/wse3small.png (it's old, hence the quested WSs being misnamed)

Oh, and I was an idiot before, it's +.1 fTP, not +.1 pDIF. Sorry if that confused anyone.