Bleach

**DrClout** · 2014-01-15 15:26

Seeing as it was neither destroyed nor damage it's unlikely but then again. . . Kubo!

**Surealistic** · 2014-01-15 15:30

not necessarily that he is "stronger" (he is of course), but that he is more able to control his power

**DrClout** · 2014-01-15 17:08

Question though. . . SuperStar questioned whether Bankai can alter forms. Wouldn't that leave assumption that he's seen Renji's bankai to understand that it's changed then? Seeing as Byakuya told him not to take his out, how does he even know what it looks like for that question to even come up?

**Tajin** · 2014-01-15 17:58

Easily explained with: "Quincy have been keeping an eye on SS"

**Xno Kappa** · 2014-01-15 19:33

We're talking about a group that came up with a method to rob bankais. Easy to assume some research went into it and it's not like there's many in soul society overall to begin with.

**Uzor** · 2014-01-15 21:56

They did their research, it's not a leap to think they know about their bankais.

Although, if they did study them, they should know its possible. We already know Zanpakutos act different and have different abilities if you call them by the wrong name, and we've seen at least one Shikai with different forms depending on of you call it by its name, or the name it hates. If they did study them, they should know...

**kareface** · 2014-01-15 22:08

Maybe I'm crazy but didn't Star mention fighting him before?

**Lonewind** · 2014-01-15 22:34

Originally Posted by kareface

Maybe I'm crazy but didn't Star mention fighting him before?

yea in 563, don't think there's real fighting involved though...

**Fwahm** · 2014-01-15 22:58

I'm pretty sure the false name thing for bankais would be exclusive to Renji.

If you remember from the SS arc, we saw Zabimaru speak once, after Renji lost to Ichigo. He was a baboon, with a snake for a tail. The baboon was nice and congenial, sympathizing with Renji's loss and asking when he'd get to fight Zangetsu again, while the snake was rude and insulting, telling Renji that he was weak.

I think that "false bankai" is the result of the "nice" baboon half of Zabimaru consenting to full cooperation with Renji, and the "mean" snake half refusing to cooperate.

Thus, Renji's bankai was incomplete. As far as we've seen Renji has the only zanpaktou spirit with a literal split personality, so only he could call out a bankai with only partial cooperation from his zanpaktou. Thus, I think this powerup is exclusive to Renji, and Renji alone.

**Serra** · 2014-01-16 00:23

Originally Posted by Lonewind

yea in 563, don't think there's real fighting involved though...

Star was the one who knocked Renji out during the Byakuya fight before Renji could use his Bankai.

**Gredival** · 2014-01-16 01:04

Originally Posted by Fwahm

I'm pretty sure the false name thing for bankais would be exclusive to Renji..

We've seen that the name with which the Zanpaktou is released affects the form with Yuchimika, so I think the trick is repeatable.

**Xno Kappa** · 2014-01-16 01:16

Originally Posted by Fwahm

I'm pretty sure the false name thing for bankais would be exclusive to Renji.

Why would the false name thing be exclusive to bankais? There's already precedence for it in shikais.

**Lonewind** · 2014-01-16 01:18

Originally Posted by Xno Kappa

Why would the false name thing be exclusive to bankais? There's already precedence for it in shikais.

oh yea, with the Fujikujaku

**Fwahm** · 2014-01-16 08:28

Originally Posted by Xno Kappa

Why would the false name thing be exclusive to bankais? There's already precedence for it in shikais.

Because shikais and bankais are different; by definition, a bankai is full cooperation with your zanpaktou, while shikai is just a partial release of power, and can be done without even having your spirit's permission if you force it. Only someone with a zanpaktou with a split personality could have full cooperation with only a part of their spirit.

**kuronosan** · 2014-01-16 09:41

Only someone with a zanpaktou with a split personality could have full cooperation with only a part of their spirit.

How do you know this?

**Gredival** · 2014-01-16 09:53

Yuchimika explains that by calling his Zanpaktou different colors, it affects the sword's cooperation, thus producing different Shikai results. I imagine that a Zanpaktou not revealing its full name functions by the same principles.

Also, Bankai is described as the complete subjugation of the Zanpaktou. When Ichigo went through express Bankai training, the shortcut doll that Urahara used was a method to skip the ability to manifest the spirit but it meant that the Shinigami only had three days (the duration of the doll's materialization) to fight with the Zanpaktou's spirit to subjugate the Zanpaktou.

So Renji's false Bankai makes sense in the respect that it would represent that he didn't have total subjugation of Zabimaru if it wouldn't reveal it's full name.

**kuronosan** · 2014-01-16 12:47

No I want to know how he manages to proclaim that it has a split personality and that's why both had to be convinced? Nothing of the sort was ever said, ever. I can buy the "lol didn't give you my name" but now we're driving into zanpakutou psychology and that's just silly.

**Xno Kappa** · 2014-01-16 15:54

Not to mention Renji's old bankai blatantly represented the snake so his whole zanpaktou psychology lesson goes out the window.

**Fwahm** · 2014-01-16 17:05

I said it because it was explicitly stated that it takes the full cooperation of your zanpaktou spirit in order to use bankai at all.

The only way for it to even be possible to have "partial full cooperation" is if different parts of the spirit (or multiple spirits, like with Ichigo, possibly) can cooperate independently of other, like if it had a split personality. And hey, Zabimaru explicitly has a split personality in it's only canon speaking role.

I'm of course not saying it's definitely the truth, but I think it's very likely.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2014-01-16 17:53

Originally Posted by Fwahm

I said it because it was explicitly stated that it takes the full cooperation of your zanpaktou spirit in order to use bankai at all.

The only way for it to even be possible to have "partial full cooperation" is if different parts of the spirit (or multiple spirits, like with Ichigo, possibly) can cooperate independently of other, like if it had a split personality. And hey, Zabimaru explicitly has a split personality in it's only canon speaking role.

I'm of course not saying it's definitely the truth, but I think it's very likely.

the Zanpaktou Ark is actually classed as Canon (Kubo wanted it to happen just didn't want it in the manga so meh grain of salt)

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