Bleach

[Sanoske]

I know Ukitake is strong, but why put him above Shunsui? I would definitely put Shunsui right after Yamamoto.

[BadKarma]

I know Ukitake is strong, but why put him above Shunsui? I would definitely put Shunsui right after Yamamoto.

I didnt really say what I meant. I mean we havent really seen em at full strength yet I should have said Ukitake and Shunsui were equal all things considering.

[Sunrider]

What I wanna know is how there have been these three apparently devastating shinigami just milling about in Soul Society for well over a century, and not a soul had a clue as to their power before "Turn Back the Pendulum." I wanna know where the fuck Aizen gets his hax, seriously. You'd swear he was an Uchiha crossover or something.

Hey at least we still have Yammy... amirite? >.>;;

THAT MUST BE IT!

YAMMY IS THE VASTO LORD!!!

[kuronosan]

It's a shame Kubo has already said we'll never get an Aizen flashback for his past. We'll only see other peoples' flashbacks (like we've seen from Urahara, Shinji, and the Espada) that involve him.

[Serif]

It's a shame Kubo has already said we'll never get an Aizen flashback for his past. We'll only see other peoples' flashbacks (like we've seen from Urahara, Shinji, and the Espada) that involve him.

He can easily explain a lot about Aizen through other people's flashbacks. :D

Hopefully through Isshin's flashback more is revealed about Aizen.

[Stilzkin]

It's a shame Kubo has already said we'll never get an Aizen flashback for his past. We'll only see other peoples' flashbacks (like we've seen from Urahara, Shinji, and the Espada) that involve him.

Don't worry Kubo will forget he said that

[orson]

Geh, all the espada were VLs. Kinda wish this would die. -.-

There's no solid prove of that at all. If there is show us oh wise mighty one.

[Souj]

I'd actually say its quite obvious that none of the espada were VLs.
only VL atm I'd say might be Wonderweisse. I'm not even gonna guess at wtf Yammi is.

[Insanecyclone]

I just want them to show Yammy again, he reminds me of nappa for some reason, and lolAizen.

Spoiler: show

Yeah she wasn't that powerful to you but you didn't have to go and kill the big breasted black woman in front of everyone.

[AoE]

Aizen doesn't care about black people!

[Furoris]

There's no solid prove of that at all. If there is show us oh wise mighty one.

Yep, and the proof is quite the opposite. It is blatantly indicated that Grimmjow was an Adjuchas-class Menos and he was #6 and #9 Aaroniero Arruruerie was the only Gillian. It is most likely that the rest of the espada were Adjuchas accept possibly 1-4

[arus2001]

Yep, and the proof is quite the opposite. It is blatantly indicated that Grimmjow was an Adjuchas-class Menos and he was #6 and #9 Aaroniero Arruruerie was the only Gillian. It is most likely that the rest of the espada were Adjuchas accept possibly 1-4

Note the wiki link showing his adjuchas form, then compare it to his actual release. I say they're VLs in the context that Aizen's whole little numbered espada/arrancar system added some unneeded confusion since one of the biggest descriptors of the VL status is a near-human appearance, which is true in both unreleased and non-Aaroniero rankeds. Aizen's process using the hyogyoku arguably just cut down on the needed time for evolution as people like Stark and Barragan (and Nel/Nnoitira?) were humanoid before his arrival. And whether or not people trust the dubs, the Espada have been referred to as VLs in at least 2 episodes.

Is it 100% conclusive? I can understand doubt, but on the other hand, anticipation on Wonderweiss being some kind of Espada+1 because he's a retard that managed to surprise Urahara even though 9 of 10 ranked are now dead/incapacitated strikes me as far too much grasping at this point. If one idiot that's seen very little page time turns around and proves to be the key to defeating the far-outnumbering shinigami, I would call that abysmal writing, and I'm usually pretty lenient on what Bleach churns out compared to some others here. No, his gimmick was super chunky and perhaps having a 'drunken fist' style of mind gaming those who did think him slow. For now, he got his butt kicked by Mashiro, who despite her Vizard status, was just a VC initially.

So, with Aizen offing Halibel, if these weren't VLs, why would he actually waste time using them when he could've just haxed the supposed ones already in HM? Was Barragan's king BS just him THINKING he ruled, or a legitimate lording over HM that had taken place? If none of these guys are VLs, what's there left to evolve to when you consider the whole chain of evolution that'd been explained before?

Where the series go from here in terms of villains and power creep is up in the air. The King's Dimension could have things neither Hollow nor Shinigami. Hell could make Hueco Mundo look like a beach resort. We're still a few pieces short on Aizen's ultimate goal with this, but if we're going to insist on arrancar still having something special about them, then Ulq's two form thing should be the focus as it's the closest correlation to shikai and bankai on their side, but in that context, it would also further imply Ulq is like one of the weaker captains or even Renji. The others just had a formidable 'shikai' with their release and had yet to realize their 'bankai' equivalent state.

[Guitarman]

No, his gimmick was super chunky and perhaps having a 'drunken fist' style of mind gaming those who did think him slow. For now, he got his butt kicked by Mashiro, who despite her Vizard status, was just a VC initially.

Only thing i want to point out is, mashiro is seemingly above or better than the other vaizard somehow, in how she can keep her mask on for hours, or indefinitely for all we know. She was somehow able to not only subdue her inner hollow but either befriend it or completely dominate past what the others can do, so that she can keep her mask on that long. I mean she was able to drop kick the fucker in the face and put him out cold without even drawing her weapon. So i wouldnt put too much on her VC status and assume her weak.

[orson]

A lot of text

Wiki doesn't mean anything that's mostly full of random people posting their theories and even stuff like interviews doesn't make it canon until it's actually in the story.

I did read everything you said but honestly it boils down to the fact never once has it been revealed that any Espada was a VL. Maybe some of them were VLs maybe none were but we do know that Aizen was after VL and never was it mentioned that he found any. I don't think that's coincidence. There's a distinct possibility that they are being saved for another conflict or arc.

Remember that the VLs are said to be numbered equal to or less than 10 in Hekumundo and have greater strength than Captains. I'm pretty sure the only "Vasto Lorde" level hollow we've seen was the fully hollified dead Ichigo. Even then that's only what kind of power I'd assume they'd have.

The only evidence that makes me think an Espada may have been a partially developed VL was Ulq. Given his appearance very closely matching the silhouette originally shown when the VL and his obvious incredibly high combat level over captain. Unless Wonderweiss shows some crazy ass stuff I'm thinking that these all were not VL. Aizen may even know he can't fully control VLs and might be waiting on the Hougyoku to fully awaken (it was only at 50% when Wonderweiss was created) otherwise he may end up with higher level hollows being brain damaged like Wonderweiss.

As for Barragan being a king I say he was just a self appointed king with many gillion and adjuchas.

[_chuchu]

Aizen doesn't care about black people!

it's what makes him and all of bleach so Hariber

[Siniroth]

I just want them to show Yammy again, he reminds me of nappa for some reason

For some reason?

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0107572/06.jpg

That entire scenario was definitely Vegeta/Nappa style

[arus2001]

Wiki doesn't mean anything that's mostly full of random people posting their theories and even stuff like interviews doesn't make it canon until it's actually in the story.

I did read everything you said but honestly it boils down to the fact never once has it been revealed that any Espada was a VL. Maybe some of them were VLs maybe none were but we do know that Aizen was after VL and never was it mentioned that he found any. I don't think that's coincidence. There's a distinct possibility that they are being saved for another conflict or arc.

Remember that the VLs are said to be numbered equal to or less than 10 in Hekumundo and have greater strength than Captains. I'm pretty sure the only "Vasto Lorde" level hollow we've seen was the fully hollified dead Ichigo. Even then that's only what kind of power I'd assume they'd have.

The only evidence that makes me think an Espada may have been a partially developed VL was Ulq. Given his appearance very closely matching the silhouette originally shown when the VL and his obvious incredibly high combat level over captain. Unless Wonderweiss shows some crazy ass stuff I'm thinking that these all were not VL. Aizen may even know he can't fully control VLs and might be waiting on the Hougyoku to fully awaken (it was only at 50% when Wonderweiss was created) otherwise he may end up with higher level hollows being brain damaged like Wonderweiss.

As for Barragan being a king I say he was just a self appointed king with many gillion and adjuchas.

For now, I just think there's more suggesting they are than they aren't and people are trying to anticipate an "OH SHIT!" moment that'll probably never come. I debated mentioning Ichigo, but the fact he's still a living human kind of throws a monkey wrench in the thought as I'd been comparing one type of dead soul to another at this point.

Hopefully the missing pieces of Aizen's plan will offer some finality. If just getting the Espada dead was a goal, why split up Ichigo and Soul Society? Why go for Orihime's own hax powers and just give her up so easily? Why even run away to HM to begin with? We can speculate they were fucking around with the Vizard powers to improve themselves, but what's the end game in that? I'm sure we'll get the diabolical villain monologue when the Just As Planned moment happens, but I do think things have been a bit too vague up until now.

[orson]

For now, I just think there's more suggesting they are than they aren't and people are trying to anticipate an "OH SHIT!" moment that'll probably never come. I debated mentioning Ichigo, but the fact he's still a living human kind of throws a monkey wrench in the thought as I'd been comparing one type of dead soul to another at this point.

Hopefully the missing pieces of Aizen's plan will offer some finality. If just getting the Espada dead was a goal, why split up Ichigo and Soul Society? Why go for Orihime's own hax powers and just give her up so easily? Why even run away to HM to begin with? We can speculate they were fucking around with the Vizard powers to improve themselves, but what's the end game in that? I'm sure we'll get the diabolical villain monologue when the Just As Planned moment happens, but I do think things have been a bit too vague up until now.

Well It may be that you personally think that VLs have been found and are among the espada but there's just no evidence to support it, at all. You keep saying that you think it points more to them being VLs but you're not really providing any supporting evidence. "The Absence Of Evidence Is Not The Evidence Of Absence"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVQZz8WDRdQ
That's pretty much what you're saying.

Ichigo was dead and his heart was destroyed (essentially instant hollow) I'm not sure you can possibly think otherwise. Sure he was able to revive but that's more likely either Orihime's power or just the strength of his soul was able to stave back the hollow from taking control (or really random theory that Ichigo's hollow side is in love/attached to Orihime.)

"Hopefully the missing pieces of Aizen's plan will offer some finality."

I definitely agree with this though hopefully he'll talk soon and clarify some stuff.

[arus2001]

By all means, then, tell me what a VL is and how the Espada aren't them.

[Insanecyclone]

For some reason?


That entire scenario was definitely Vegeta/Nappa style