Bleach

**TummieGaruda** · 2009-09-26 21:14

I don't think Aizen is killing the Arancar to form the key. If you remember, in order to form the key, you need 100,000 souls in a spirit enriched area the size of one half spirit mile. So Aizen would need to kill 100,000 souls in the spirit enriched area (The real K town) in order to do so. Aizen had said prior that he would head to soul society in order to accomplish this.

**orson** · 2009-09-26 21:52

Originally Posted by arus2001

By all means, then, tell me what a VL is and how the Espada aren't them.

I already told you the qualifications of a VL; first 10 or less in Hueco Mundo and secondly they are considered to be stronger than captains. Now the difference in strength isn't really quantified but to me that means that a VL likely should have no problem defeating a captain. Yama gii-san I'd say is unique among the gotei captains but I don't think that there's a massive difference between the others, except maybe Hitsugaya. It never really appeared that the majority of the Espada were stronger than captains.

The only Espadas that in my opinion that could have been VLs were Barragan, Starrk, Ulq, Yammi, and Wonderweiss. The main reason I don't think they were was the ones that were killed didn't seem powerful enough to be (except Ulq. and maybe Yammi/Wond.) but mainly if they were VLs I think it would be made mention of. I just don't think that they'd go through all the effort of talking about Vasto Lordes through the shinigami, Aizen, and Grimmjow's flashback if they weren't going to at least mention who was one.

Maybe Aizen will mention that later like, "Vasto Lordes' powers are overstated" but to me with him killing Halibel and the Hougyoku not being fully awakened it's seeming more and more like this was almost a test run to see how his Espada would fair. Aizen may have just wanted to see the true power of certain captains and draw out his hidden enemies (Vizards.) If he destroyed the town in the process he'd be like "bonus."

Overall there's no prove saying they aren't VLs but the I'm just trying to point out that there's no proof the other way either. This is still a topic of debate up until the point as which it's put into stone. It's plausible to think that some of the Espada were VLs but I'd think that if they were the only logical thing to me would be that the Hougyoku weakened them because of it not being fully awakened.

**Kaylia** · 2009-09-26 22:04

Originally Posted by TummieGaruda

I don't think Aizen is killing the Arancar to form the key. If you remember, in order to form the key, you need 100,000 souls in a spirit enriched area the size of one half spirit mile. So Aizen would need to kill 100,000 souls in the spirit enriched area (The real K town) in order to do so. Aizen had said prior that he would head to soul society in order to accomplish this.

What do you think hollow made off? Marshmallow?

It's obvious hollow are the same as a soul. Their origin, the way they eat other...all of this suggest they are a big condensate of the soul material Aizen need to create the key.

They though Aizen needed to be in Karawhatever town since there is a large quantity of soul gathered there, but the large quantity of soul could be gathered anywhere in theory.

**kuronosan** · 2009-09-26 23:38

Still, I really don't like the fact that Aizen said "We will win this battle without having to lift a finger" and then Tousen and Gin interfere against Shinji, and Aizen kills Halibel.

This whole "just as planned" thing just reeks of bad writing to me.

**Guitarman** · 2009-09-27 00:12

yeah i'm gonna groan pretty hard when aizen pulls his "you all played into my hands again" bullshit for the 50th time. He's been playing yamamoto like a puppet since forever and it's dumb. Yama has the tactical sense of a fucking potato.

**_chuchu** · 2009-09-27 00:15

Originally Posted by Guitarman

yeah i'm gonna groan pretty hard when aizen pulls his "you all played into my hands again" bullshit for the 50th time. He's been playing yamamoto like a puppet since forever and it's dumb. Yama has the tactical sense of a fucking potato.

He can't even count to potato

**Kaylia** · 2009-09-27 02:32

Originally Posted by kuronosan

Still, I really don't like the fact that Aizen said "We will win this battle without having to lift a finger" and then Tousen and Gin interfere against Shinji, and Aizen kills Halibel.

This whole "just as planned" thing just reeks of bad writing to me.

He said that before the Vizard appears. It wasnt much of an issue for him I guess, but that's probably why he had to lift a finger to end it.

Not saying its good writting, this arc has been terrible. Everyone do horrible one liner taunt, make no sense,and win the battle after the unsurprising power up from their bankai,

**Draggy** · 2009-09-27 07:22

Originally Posted by Guitarman

yeah i'm gonna groan pretty hard when aizen pulls his "you all played into my hands again" bullshit for the 50th time. He's been playing yamamoto like a puppet since forever and it's dumb. Yama has the tactical sense of a fucking potato.

Yama dies and the series will redeem itself in my eyes. Seriously I cannot stand the guy at all. I don't care if nobody else dies in Bleach ever, that one death would be worth it

**kuronosan** · 2009-09-27 08:27

I'm just feeling like Aizen isn't really any sort of substantially awesome villain. He doesn't do anything but run. I know he's awesome at planning things but really he just seems more like a manipulative coward who's shown to be amazingly strong. Well if he's so strong and so powerful and his sword can hypnotize anyone, then why doesn't he just hypnotize everyone and kill them outright?

His plan makes no sense. He wants to ascend to the throne and rule the King's Realm. Why? So he can do it? Because there's problems? If he was that determined what the hell is the point of manipulating the Espada when he can do it on his own?

His motives lack substance, his plans lack motive, and his execution lacks planning. I just don't get why Aizen is such a credible villain. This is from looking in retrospect, by the way, as he seemed like such an interesting villain at the end of the SS arc. Now that the "arrancar" arc is mopping up, he just seems so generic. All these powerful captains and not is attacking him directly. What the hell as Yamamoto been doing? As soon as I saw Fura killed by the Vizards and Wonderweiss taken apart, I would have just put the fire prison back around Aizen, Tousen, and Gin. Or, to hell with that, I would have just used Bankai and killed the three of them.

**BadKarma** · 2009-09-27 11:38

Which captains have we still not seen Bankai from? Ken, Grandpa, Shunsui and Ukitake?

**Elondir** · 2009-09-27 12:07

Originally Posted by Badkarma

Which captains have we still not seen Bankai from? Ken, Grandpa, Shunsui and Ukitake?

And Unohana, i'm beginning to think we might never see hers though, as she never even fights...

Edit: Guess you can count Gin, Vaizards and Aizen too, if you're being picky.

**Ragnus** · 2009-09-27 14:07

If the Manta Ray is Unohana's Shikai then I really want to know what her Bankai changes it into.

**kuronosan** · 2009-09-27 14:21

No bankai seen yet: Unohana, Ukitake, Shunsui, Yamamoto, Love, Rose, Shinji, Kensei, Aizen, Gin, Urahara, Yoruichi.

No shikai seen yet: Kenpachi, Shinji, Yoruichi, Hachi, Mashiro

Known shikai: Every seated soul reaper, and in recent chapters, Lisa, Hiyori, Love, and Rose.

**Epysian** · 2009-09-27 14:46

Originally Posted by kuronosan

I'm just feeling like Aizen isn't really any sort of substantially awesome villain. He doesn't do anything but run. I know he's awesome at planning things but really he just seems more like a manipulative coward who's shown to be amazingly strong. Well if he's so strong and so powerful and his sword can hypnotize anyone, then why doesn't he just hypnotize everyone and kill them outright?

His plan makes no sense. He wants to ascend to the throne and rule the King's Realm. Why? So he can do it? Because there's problems? If he was that determined what the hell is the point of manipulating the Espada when he can do it on his own?

His motives lack substance, his plans lack motive, and his execution lacks planning. I just don't get why Aizen is such a credible villain. This is from looking in retrospect, by the way, as he seemed like such an interesting villain at the end of the SS arc. Now that the "arrancar" arc is mopping up, he just seems so generic. All these powerful captains and not is attacking him directly. What the hell as Yamamoto been doing? As soon as I saw Fura killed by the Vizards and Wonderweiss taken apart, I would have just put the fire prison back around Aizen, Tousen, and Gin. Or, to hell with that, I would have just used Bankai and killed the three of them.

This is my problem with Aizen and Bleach as a whole. You put it much better than I could have.

Aizen one shot Hitsugaya. So why doesn't he destroy Hitsugaya and the Vice Captains? If he's able to wreck the (arguably) weakest captain without effort, he must be able to defeat most of the captains with very little effort. Also, his sword is complete hypnosis. Do what you did to Baragan, release your sword and kill off as many people as possible. He really makes no sense whatsoever.

Can someone just kill him and we can get a better villain? I would have been much happier to see an all out brawl at the end of the SS arc, killing Gin, Aizen and Tousen along with some good guys, and skipping this arrancar bullshit altogether.

**Kaylia** · 2009-09-27 14:51

Aizen was a better character when he was dead.

**Max™** · 2009-09-27 20:03

Kenny is in Shikai I thought, just like Ichgo's big butcher knife doohickey.

I wanna see Gin bust out a satellite laser and fox mask.

**kuronosan** · 2009-09-27 20:46

I mean a true release, like knowing the name.

Also, about Aizen - Kubo said he originally wanted him to be a good guy but that he seemed so much more appealing as the 'hidden' villain than Gin.

In my opinion, he ruined Aizen's character after he arrived in FKT. The whole "lol I knew this place was fake but I'm still gonna kill you all without lifting a finger" followed by the laughable deaths of the top 3 espada were just stupid. None of the shinigami lost (except Ikkaku, and one pillar was destroyed, which lead nowhere), which means the entire arc saw no further development than showing off the powers of shinigami we haven't seen before.

**Serra** · 2009-09-27 21:47

A couple people lost arms, that's gotta count for something, right? ...Right!?

**orson** · 2009-09-27 22:50

Originally Posted by Serra

A couple people lost arms, that's gotta count for something, right? ...Right!?

Don't worry Orihime can just unwill that stuff from happening.

**Drex** · 2009-09-28 09:29

lol so some of the more interesting characters in the manga end up being throw-aways? awesome plot twist.

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