Bleach

[kuronosan]

To be fair, Kubo retconned that entire thing. When Kenpachi was first introduced, he called himself Kenpachi from the beginning (before joining the court guard squads) because he was the greatest swordsman, and he named himself Zaraki because he was from the Zaraki district.

Kubo's just an idiot who forgets his own lore sometimes.

Also, information on the next Bleach movie (picslol) being released a year from now:

Spoiler: show

Ichigo goes berserk.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4...kxc5kddkqe.jpg

[Chelly]

oh shiz that was for a movie? lol i need to learn kanji =(
i thought it was just some fancy artwork

edit: ahh rereading the first 180 chapters <3

[Xno Kappa]

To be fair, Kubo retconned that entire thing. When Kenpachi was first introduced, he called himself Kenpachi from the beginning (before joining the court guard squads) because he was the greatest swordsman, and he named himself Zaraki because he was from the Zaraki district.

Kubo's just an idiot who forgets his own lore sometimes.

Also, information on the next Bleach movie (picslol) being released a year from now:

Spoiler: show

Ichigo goes berserk.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4...kxc5kddkqe.jpg

Pretty much this.

[Ragnus]

Well, despite calling himself Kenpachi already there could also be the possibility that the captain of 11th is also referred to as Kenpachi. If that's the case, naturally Zaraki would go right after him.

[Souj]

To be fair, Kubo retconned that entire thing. When Kenpachi was first introduced, he called himself Kenpachi from the beginning (before joining the court guard squads) because he was the greatest swordsman, and he named himself Zaraki because he was from the Zaraki district.

Kubo's just an idiot who forgets his own lore sometimes.


http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4...kxc5kddkqe.jpg
[/spoiler]

yeah... Just because Zaraki called himself Kenpachi before he becamea captain doesnt mean shit. If the "Kenpachi" title means "the strongest", he named himself Kenpachi for that reason. and since of course there can't be 2 people who are the strongest, obviously he'd fight this other "strongest" person.
I see no retcon, and definitely nothing being forgotten.

[Xno Kappa]

I think you guys are just stretching make sense.

- Ikkaku never mentions anything about the title upon hearing the name after his defeat. Someone who would most definitely be after it.
- The Kenpachi "title" is never brought up despite numerous/countless explanations on how Squad 11 works.
- The "title" itself is never even mentioned until the Pendulum arc.
- Plenty of evidence is present throughout the series that Kubo forgets his own stuff.

Just seems like a retcon on Kubo's part to add to the whole "killed the previous captain/squad 11 loves fighting" mystique about the division.

[rahman1937]

I don't remember what episode it was, but I was rewatching the soul society arc and the Kenpachi being a title thing was mentioned. It was mentioned when they went into his past with Yachiru. He was the strongest swordsman in district 80.

[Souj]

I think you guys are just stretching make sense.

- Ikkaku never mentions anything about the title upon hearing the name after his defeat. Someone who would most definitely be after it.
- The Kenpachi "title" is never brought up despite numerous/countless explanations on how Squad 11 works.
- The "title" itself is never even mentioned until the Pendulum arc.
- Plenty of evidence is present throughout the series that Kubo forgets his own stuff.

Just seems like a retcon on Kubo's part to add to the whole "killed the previous captain/squad 11 loves fighting" mystique about the division.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!

[Xno Kappa]

lol

[kuronosan]

Right - the debate here isn't that Kenpachi received his title and whether it was known or not. The Kenpachi title is bestowed to the strongest swordsman ever.

You'd think, seeing as how Rukongai knows all about the shinigami, that they wouldn't dare bestow Zaraki the title of Kenpachi if the squad 11 captain was Kenpachi.

That's why it's a retcon. It would have made sense if Kubo foreshadowed by saying "And I fought hard to be the strongest... the people refused to recognize me as the strongest and wouldn't call me Kenpachi because one already existed in Soul Society. I travelled everywhere to find him so that I could be the strongest swordsman... I defeated him... I became Kenpachi Zaraki."

But he didn't do that. By the time Zaraki went to the shinigami to become captain he was already Kenpachi Zaraki. That's why it makes no sense, Souj.

In this case, it's bullshit retcon and not just wishful thinking. In the arc, they say that Kenpachi is the name given to the leader of squad 11 by tradition. Yes, it does make sense that knowing this would make Zaraki want to prove that he was the strongest... but it also mentions in the arc that in squad 11 they always fight to replace the previous captain. This is just a retcon. If it were true, Tousen would have said "There is another way to become a captain... it is only considered honorable within Squad 11 - you must defeat and kill the previous captain in battle and earn the name Kenpachi. This is how you became captain, Zaraki. You, who do not even possess bankai."

Kubo made the previous captain seem honorable and great and that Squad 11 was an honorable fighting squad of warriors until Zaraki came around... not this bullshit retcon he gives us in TBTP. To be honest, it cheapens the reason Zaraki is even Kenpachi or captain at all and just makes it seem like anyone can be a Kenpachi. It's like giving everyone bankai. What's the point? It doesn't add any depth to the story. If anything, it takes it away.

[CrimsonAngel]

When he gave yachiru her name didn't he flat out say "i will claim the fierce name of zaraki the name given to the mightiest soul reaper" or something around those lines? if so it's just a self title

[kuronosan]

Okay, I just re-read the chapter. Yea, he does name himself that.

Seeing that, it's totally plausible for it to have happened that way. Sorry Souj, you may very well be right.

[Souj]

either way, I still say Isshin was the Kenpachi during the pendulum arc.
He faked his death at the hands of zaraki and used that chance to escape to the real world.

[Maguspk]

either way, I still say Isshin was the Kenpachi during the pendulum arc.
He faked his death at the hands of zaraki and used that chance to escape to the real world.

That would mean Isshin is potentially stronger than Zaraki and not a blood thirsty demon, that'd be too epic. Although it would explain Ichigo's strength (heredity), wait it might be right.

[Epysian]

either way, I still say Isshin was the Kenpachi during the pendulum arc.
He faked his death at the hands of zaraki and used that chance to escape to the real world.

Don't think that makes much sense considering this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/187/03/

Shinji doesn't recognize his spiritual pressure.

[Hyriu]

Then maybe it's not during the Pendulum arc but there's a 80 years gap between the Vaizards being exiled to the real world and Kenpachi defeating the old 11th squad captain.

Actually, it's only Urahara saying that Isshin abandoned his Shinigami form 20 years ago.

[kuronosan]

Well that's the problem. Nobody from SS recognizes him. Nobody from Shinji's group recognizes him. Ryuuken recognizes him. Urahara recognizes him.

Who the fuck is he?

[BadKarma]

Would anybody at this point doubt that Urahara is a Vaizard to?

[Souj]

Well that's the problem. Nobody from SS recognizes him. Nobody from Shinji's group recognizes him. Ryuuken recognizes him. Urahara recognizes him.

Who the fuck is he?

who aside from Urahara and Ishida's dad has seen Isshin?
Shinji not recognizing his rietsu is a problem, but it could be explained away.
No one in SS recognizing the "Kurosaki name is not a problem at all. as far as we know it's just a fake name he made up.
I'd say theyre at least related to the Shiba house.
Ichigo looks like Kiaen, Ganju sorta looks like Isshin, and they all act pretty similar.

The Shiba family was a noble house. did they ever mention why it fell? could have had something to do with Isshin.

so lets say the 10th Kenpachi (the newer current Kepachi during the pendulum arc) was Zaraki. 9th was Kurosaki Isshin aka Shiba Isshin aka Shiba Kenpachi
Isshin lost his fight and dishonored the Shiba house and caused it to fall.

[Abandon]

wut