Bleach

[Ragnus]

who aside from Urahara and Ishida's dad has seen Isshin?
Shinji not recognizing his rietsu is a problem, but it could be explained away.
No one in SS recognizing the "Kurosaki name is not a problem at all. as far as we know it's just a fake name he made up.
I'd say theyre at least related to the Shiba house.
Ichigo looks like Kiaen, Ganju sorta looks like Isshin, and they all act pretty similar.

The Shiba family was a noble house. did they ever mention why it fell? could have had something to do with Isshin.

so lets say the 10th Kenpachi (the newer current Kepachi during the pendulum arc) was Zaraki. 9th was Kurosaki Isshin aka Shiba Isshin aka Shiba Kenpachi
Isshin lost his fight and dishonored the Shiba house and caused it to fall.

Interesting theory. It would explain why Ichigo and Kaien look / act exactly alike except their hair colors are different. Not to mention provide tons of comedic gold showing Ichigo and Ganju coming to grips that their related.

It's a very unlikely theory but an entertaining one. I just kinda chaulked Ichigo looking like Kaien to a reincarnation thing. Up to this point I was under the impression that when people die in Soul Society they start their next life on earth and vice versa.

[kuronosan]

There's no doubt in my mind that Isshin is a Shiba. The story is setting everything up for that perfectly.

I doubt, however, that he was Kenpachi. Shinji and everyone else would recognize him and he only just gave up his powers 20 years ago.

[Abandon]

Someone wanna explain how his shinigami powers re-awakened, then?

[Souj]

Someone wanna explain how his shinigami powers re-awakened, then?

Pretty sure in the manga, it was stated that isshin used one of Urahara's gigai to take away his powers. probably same kind of gigai he gave rukia.
was never stated how he got his powers back, but he used the power of plotkai.
same way how Ishida go this powers back from the "YOU WILL LOSE YOUR POWERS FOREVER!" thing.

[TummieGaruda]

The Shiba family was a noble house. did they ever mention why it fell? could have had something to do with Isshin.

It was implied that the Shiba House fell from nobility due to the deaths of both Miyako and Kaien, though they really do not state exactly why their deaths would cause that to happen.

[Sho]

Ooooh I missed a hell of a debate.

Imo, the hardcore Kenpachi we know is the 12th Kenpachi. The 11th would be Isshin. Some point in time after that conversation with Love and Rose about the 10th, Isshin challenged him and defeated him. Then during all of that time he could have fought the incomplete Arancar with Ryuken and such (there's no where that says the 11th squad was a fight loving squad back then; might have had special missions). Then finally something happened and he felt he shouldn't be a shinigami anymore-- could have plotted with our Kenpachi in such a way that he was defeated in one blow and carted off "dead" (in reality he made his escape then to the real world and sealed off his powers).

That would explain why Shinji doesn't know Isshin, but Urahara does since he was in the real world earlier. I mean the conversation between Isshin and Urahara wasn't deep in a sense that they knew each other in Soul Society, just a talk amongst former shinigami. Would also explain why Isshin is seemingly lazy like Kenpachi-- would not be surprised if laziness was also common amongst the previous Kenpachis.

Either that or he was in Zeroth Squad.

[kuronosan]

It hasn't been explained yet. Kubo says there will be a brief arc about Isshin following this arc.

[Sho]

Of course I know that, just stating what I bet will happen. Turn Back the Pendulum arc helped alot with forming a hypothesis.

[Serra]

Lol, poor Ganju.. another character written off into oblivion..

I'm personally of the view that Isshin isn't the previous Kenpachi. Assuming that Zaraki is the captain who took over the 11th during Turn Back the Pendulum (and not that Kubo threw that in without thinking just to please fans...), how would Isshin have escaped? Urahara didn't develop his gigai till later, and I've always thought the whole "power you gave up 20 years ago" comment meant he stopped being a Shinigami after that. How he knew of Urahara though appears as a mystery.. I guess it could 've been the same as Rukia where Urahara just appeared before him and gave him the body.

Also, who was Miyako? Was that Kaien's wife? I honestly don't understand how the Kaien family fell either. It seems Kukaku is already living out in the boonies when Rukia brings Kaien's body back, or at least not in Seireitei, so it seems that had already happened.

[BadKarma]

The Shiba family fell because Kaien was "corrupted" by a Hollow. His wife, Miyako, got eaten by that same hollow. They fell because they appeared weak.

[Serra]

Does it actually say that somewhere, or is it speculation?

[BadKarma]

Does it actually say that somewhere, or is it speculation?

It's speculation. But that is what it appears to be. Common sense my friend.

[Kaylia]

Lol, poor Ganju.. another character written off into oblivion..

I'm personally of the view that Isshin isn't the previous Kenpachi. Assuming that Zaraki is the captain who took over the 11th during Turn Back the Pendulum (and not that Kubo threw that in without thinking just to please fans...), how would Isshin have escaped? Urahara didn't develop his gigai till later, and I've always thought the whole "power you gave up 20 years ago" comment meant he stopped being a Shinigami after that. How he knew of Urahara though appears as a mystery.. I guess it could 've been the same as Rukia where Urahara just appeared before him and gave him the body

If they thought Isshin was dead, why would they hunt him? He could just hide anywhere in the real world (like the vizard)


20 years correspond to the time where he met his wife. He probably wanted to live a "normal" life with his family, and gave up on his shinigami power completely.

[Serra]

It's speculation. But that is what it appears to be. Common sense my friend.

But if they were a noble house, why did Rukia have to drag his body out to Kukaku's place? Admittedly, my point also relies on speculation, but based on info presented early in the series, why would a noble family not be living in Seireitei?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/115/14/
This clearly is not seireitei, but the area similar to where they had to find Kukaku's house. Also, take into account Kukaku's missing arm -- something else that has never been explained.

In any case, I don't think saying it's common sense is enough of an explanation, or at the very least might be misleading to what actually was the cause.

If they thought Isshin was dead, why would they hunt him? He could just hide anywhere in the real world (like the vizard)


20 years correspond to the time where he met his wife. He probably wanted to live a "normal" life with his family, and gave up on his shinigami power completely.

Wasn't it said specifically in the Turn back the Pendulum arc that they were relying on Urahara's gigai to hide their reiatsu?

Edit - found it:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.12/17/

[Skotty]

who aside from Urahara and Ishida's dad has seen Isshin?

Rukia met him (ch 199, ep 116) at the beginning of the Arrancar arc when the SS crew came to Earth and did not seem to know him at all.

[Kaylia]

Wasn't it said specifically in the Turn back the Pendulum arc that they were relying on Urahara's gigai to hide their reiatsu?

Edit - found it:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.12/17/

To completely hide it, but I always assumed they could keep low profile without it. If they werent hunting him down, maybe he could hide normally.

I mean, Ichigo did hide in soul society while he was training for his bankai, and didn't have a gigai (did he?).

[Souj]

Rukia met him (ch 199, ep 116) at the beginning of the Arrancar arc when the SS crew came to Earth and did not seem to know him at all.

I meant who knows he's a shinigami.

and even if Isshin was 100% a shinigami awhile back, I doubt Rukia when still be able to recognize him, because she hasnt been with the Gotei 13 that long. She's not that old, and I'd say more than half her life was spent in the ghettos of SS with no personal knowledge of any shinigami.

[Cleverness]

could have plotted with our Kenpachi in such a way that he was defeated in one blow and carted off "dead" (in reality he made his escape then to the real world and sealed off his powers).

To be honest it's extremely out of character for Kenpachi to only half-kill someone, unless Isshin promised him he'd go train and become stronger and fight him again or something. Kenpachi doesn't do shit half-assed.

[kuronosan]

Also keep in mind that time passes slower in Shinigami worlds. 20 years ago in human years means Ichigo wasn't even born yet, but that could be thousands of years in shinigami years. Rukia mentioned she's lived ten times a human lifetime (1000 years).

I'm betting whoever Isshin really is, he for certain:

a) was around long before Shinji and the rest, since they do not recognize his reiatsu

b) was around long enough to know of Aizen's treachery and the arrancars, or at least long enough to know Urahara was the guy to see if you wanted to hide in the real world

c) was around long enough to interact with the quincy and become friends (sorta) with the last of the powerful ones

I'm speculating, but I really think Isshin comes from the King's Realm and was of squad zero. Perhaps he met with Hikifune and upon hearing of Aizen's treachery or whatever she sent him to the real world as a spy. Maybe he quit being a shinigami and went into hiding because he heard Aizen had gotten away with murder and disagreed with the central 46 and their governing of soul society. What we do know:

a) He's a captain-class or greater shinigami.
b) He must have a shikai, and possibly a bankai, since he possesses captain robes.
c) If he is truly a former squad 11 captain, then it's possible he has neither.
d) He's old. Possibly as old as Unohana, Shunsui, and Ukitake (who have yet to interact with him).

[Khajit]

uh... theres no time zone difference between the worlds. Also Rukia is 120 years old I think. She mentioned it once.