Bleach

**Guitarman** · 2009-12-31 22:27

Originally Posted by Cleverness

To be honest it's extremely out of character for Kenpachi to only half-kill someone, unless Isshin promised him he'd go train and become stronger and fight him again or something. Kenpachi doesn't do shit half-assed.

you're right for the most part, however yachiru could be the answer to this. Kenpachi named her for someone he once admired, which very well could have been Isshin. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone else named yachiru. I don't know if yachiru has a special meaning in japanese so pure speculation. Isshin and zaraki kind of dress alike, both torn up captains robes.

on ichigo/ishin being nobles: If you remember, when ichigo was first using his bankai against byakuya, byakuya mentioned something along the lines of "why him? how is he able to use bankai like it's second nature? It's as if he's...". He could very well have been saying that "it's as if he's a noble".

**avelle** · 2009-12-31 22:54

Originally Posted by Guitarman

you're right for the most part, however yachiru could be the answer to this. Kenpachi named her for someone he once admired, which very well could have been Isshin. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone else named yachiru. I don't know if yachiru has a special meaning in japanese so pure speculation. Isshin and zaraki kind of dress alike, both torn up captains robes.

on ichigo/ishin being nobles: If you remember, when ichigo was first using his bankai against byakuya, byakuya mentioned something along the lines of "why him? how is he able to use bankai like it's second nature? It's as if he's...". He could very well have been saying that "it's as if he's a noble".

I always wondered about that line and 200 episodes later they still haven't explained it. :/

**Serif** · 2009-12-31 23:17

How long ago was the Quincy/Shinigami War?

**Kaylia** · 2009-12-31 23:32

Originally Posted by Serif

How long ago was the Quincy/Shinigami War?

Considering mayuri wasn't a captain 100 years ago, and that Ishida's family probably age normally...I think it's safe to assume it happened within the last 100 years.

It would make more sense if the new captain in pendulum arc was Ichigo's father, and was later "killed" by Zaraki (aka, fake death) to escape with his wife.

**Souj** · 2009-12-31 23:35

Originally Posted by Serif

How long ago was the Quincy/Shinigami War?

never been said.
Dont think anything's even been said to insinuate any kind of crackpot theory.
I'd say it was at least 50 years ago.

**Cleverness** · 2010-01-01 00:38

Unless they retconned it later on in the manga, first time Quincy background is explained by Urahara he says it happened over 200 years again

Spoiler: show

**Kaylia** · 2010-01-01 00:47

So, Mayuri's didnt kill Ishida's grandfather during the war? I guess it was just a part of the extermination that followed up. I thought both happened at the same time

200 years old = quincy war
100 years old = pendulum arc
20-80 years old = ishida/Ichigo's father stuff?

**Khajit** · 2010-01-01 01:00

Well while Kubo appears to have fucked up in theory it makes sense.
Let's assume the quincy lost the war 200 years ago with the leftovers capitulating to the shinigami and agreeing to not hunt hollows. This doesn't mean we should assume they didn't teach their traditions to their kids. Ishida's father has obviously been trained and he's obviously not old enough to have been even born by the time the war happened. We also cant assume ishida and hisn father are the only post war generations,
So logically it's still possible to explain it as:
Quincy lost 200 years ago, they keep a low profile as far as shinigami care since they agreed to not kill hollows.
Quincies trained their kids in what to do but didn't do anything to outright kill hollows which is what would make the Shinigami start slaughtering again.
Mayuri becomes captain and prettymuch tears through the remaining population as experiments and since the 86 are douches they didn't care much if they did know about him secretly doing so.
So technically the timeline makes sense until we inevitably find some part where it turns out Ishida's grandfather was alive during the war.

**Souj** · 2010-01-01 01:04

edit: Khajit said it better than I did.

**Cleverness** · 2010-01-01 01:05

It'd be almost impossible since we see Ishida with his grandfather in flashbacks, and everything so far points to Quincy's aging normally. Just skimmed through the manga abit, Mayuri claims to bribe the Shinigami who watch over the remaining Quincy to be late in rescuing them from Hollow, then takes their souls for his research. Since Ishida is still a kid I'm gonna guess it happened 10 years ago maybe, at best? Doesn't really explain the whole Isshin and Ishida's dad relationship though, unless Isshin had watched over Ishida's family at some point in his career.

**Kaylia** · 2010-01-01 02:50

Originally Posted by Khajit

Well while Kubo appears to have fucked up in theory it makes sense.
Let's assume the quincy lost the war 200 years ago with the leftovers capitulating to the shinigami and agreeing to not hunt hollows. This doesn't mean we should assume they didn't teach their traditions to their kids. Ishida's father has obviously been trained and he's obviously not old enough to have been even born by the time the war happened. We also cant assume ishida and hisn father are the only post war generations,
So logically it's still possible to explain it as:
Quincy lost 200 years ago, they keep a low profile as far as shinigami care since they agreed to not kill hollows.
Quincies trained their kids in what to do but didn't do anything to outright kill hollows which is what would make the Shinigami start slaughtering again.
Mayuri becomes captain and prettymuch tears through the remaining population as experiments and since the 86 are douches they didn't care much if they did know about him secretly doing so.
So technically the timeline makes sense until we inevitably find some part where it turns out Ishida's grandfather was alive during the war.

Oh, I never said it doesn't make sense. I just thought the "quincy war" refered to the fight against the last few quincy, not the old fight mentioned by Rukia in one of the first episode.

I wonder if Ichigo's mother was a Quincy, or had quincy blood now. It could explains a few thing if we works under the conjecture that quincy's blood hold special properties. It would also explain the real reason behind the massacre 200 years ago.

**Cleverness** · 2010-01-01 03:04

Unless Kubo retcons it, which isn't really out there, Quincy's were killed cause of the whole "they destroy the soul" thing. But since that WHOLE idea has been long forgotten and ignored, like pretty much everything else before and during the SS arc, it wouldn't be a surprise. Although Ichigo getting ANOTHER reason as to why he's so special, which of course will lead to another powerup, is pretty ridiculous and would result in another massive troll by Kubo.

Although him shooting Tensa Zangetsu arrows with a Quincy bow would be pretty boss, not gonna lie.

**Kaylia** · 2010-01-01 04:02

Originally Posted by Cleverness

Unless Kubo retcons it, which isn't really out there, Quincy's were killed cause of the whole "they destroy the soul" thing. But since that WHOLE idea has been long forgotten and ignored, like pretty much everything else before and during the SS arc, it wouldn't be a surprise. Although Ichigo getting ANOTHER reason as to why he's so special, which of course will lead to another powerup, is pretty ridiculous and would result in another massive troll by Kubo.

Although him shooting Tensa Zangetsu arrows with a Quincy bow would be pretty boss, not gonna lie.

It's not a retcon, it would be the "official" reason given to the captain (and maybe a valid one to some extent). However, it's obvious there is some dark secret in Soul Society, and that's what I was trying to guess.

About Ichigo, it wouldn't be another power up, it's just to explain why he became a vizard without the hougyuku (something inbetween shinigami and hollow). I'm sure some existed before the one Urahara created in pendulum's arc, and if they were created in soulsociety, it's not too much of a stretch that they might be related to quincy.

**Guitarman** · 2010-01-01 05:25

About Ichigo, it wouldn't be another power up, it's just to explain why he became a vizard without the hougyuku (something inbetween shinigami and hollow). I'm sure some existed before the one Urahara created in pendulum's arc, and if they were created in soulsociety, it's not too much of a stretch that they might be related to quincy.

i assumed his vaizard powers stemmed from the fact he took rukia's powers in the very beginning when she had the hogyoku inside her, basically activating it in the process.

**Sunrider** · 2010-01-01 06:38

I didn't imagine the hogyoku was requisite in the hybridization process.

After all, didn't we see Aizen Hollow out Shinji and the other Shinigami without the aid of the hogyoku in "Turn Back the Pendulum?" Uruhara had only developed the hogyoku in response to their Hollowing.

**Kaylia** · 2010-01-01 06:55

Originally Posted by Sunrider

I didn't imagine the hogyoku was requisite in the hybridization process.
After all, didn't we see Aizen Hollow out Shinji and the other Shinigami without the aid of the hogyoku in "Turn Back the Pendulum?" Uruhara had only developed the hogyoku in response to their Hollowing.

I don't think Aizen turned them into hybrid, he was turning them into full hollow. Urahara used the hougyuku to stop the process.
Maybe he ended up saving them like they did with Ichigo after the first faillure, but I don't know, it's kinda stupid to introduce the hougyuku as the tool that allow hybrid if it wasnt used at all.
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0052322/19.jpg

**Siniroth** · 2010-01-01 13:53

Maybe it's not a requisite, but because it was inside her when he took her powers it enabled it to occur naturally much more easily than it otherwise would have? and when he lost her powers because of Byakuya's stab combo thing its latent power remained in him so when he tried to become a shinigami naturally it allowed both powers to awaken at once?

**Khajit** · 2010-01-01 13:56

Hmm ok so basically he didn't have a mask at first because he was using Rukia's power but once he unlocked his own it was the set that had hollow powers.
Sounds like a feasible theory to me.

**Ayn** · 2010-01-01 16:22

I'm puzzled though.

I might be missing something, but didn't Rukia get the Hougyoku after she met Ichigo? I might have the timeline wrong, but I thought she saw Urahara AFTER transferring powers to Ichigo, when she needed a gigai?

**Maguspk** · 2010-01-01 16:24

I think the process of regaining his powers is what introduced the Hollow Ichigo, not that it had already existed. Similar to whatever happened to the Vaizard captains in the 'Turn back the Pendulum' arc.

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