Bleach

[Khajit]

In the future it obtains the abilty to time travel and goes back in time to tell itself what to do.

[kuronosan]

I had a whole montage of bullshit retcon quotes to type up, but you needn't look any further than this:

-Early on-
"The Hogo breaks down barriers between Shinigami and Hollows"
"By the time I found out Rukia had the Hogo she had already departed for the real world"
"I sent Renji and Byakuya because I knew she would go back with them"
-200 chapters later-
"I'm the one who sent Rukia to the real world to test what the Hogo would do to you and your friends"
"I always knew Rukia had the Hogo lol"
-2 chapters later-
"The Hogo actually grants wishes in your heart lol and it werks like dis"
"It only broke down barrier between hollow and shinigami because Urahara wanted it to"

I mean... his whole reason for getting the Hogo was to make VLs, and now because Kubo made the Espada piss-poor weak, his whole reason for having it is to fulfill his heart's desire.

I mean, wtf. That's just retarded. This whole manga is retarded. I can't wait to see what misadventures we have next.

[arus2001]

I think some of your guys are trying to apply reason to someone who's basically admitted to being a liar and proved that by playing nice with SS for over a hundred years.

[Pirian]

In the future it obtains the abilty to time travel and goes back in time to tell itself what to do.

It's a Higgs Boson particle?

[Gredival]

I think some of your guys are trying to apply reason to someone who's basically admitted to being a liar and proved that by playing nice with SS for over a hundred years.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...9/TiteKubo.jpg

[Siniroth]

The past three pages have been hilarious, bravo

[kuronosan]

I'm just waiting for Kubo to retcon Ishida and say that he got his powers back because of the Hogo's influence.

[Ragnus]

I'm just waiting for Kubo to retcon Ishida and say that Quincys got their powers because of the Hogo's influence.

ftfy

[CrimsonAngel]

Rewatched the first 3 episodes on adult swim, watching those episodes really makes you miss the old feel bleach had before the soul society. But can't change the past ...yet >.> <_< . . . BUT the old stuff is still entertaining to read and watch.

Tite really screwed himself over, besides retconning small details he retconned the whole plot when he made a shinigami the main bad guy instead of sticking with hollows. The whole introduction of arrancars and the menos classes was pointless, and he is yet to bring in a vasto lordes. Im sure there are more plotholes to be found besides the new bigass ones, but screw it to tired to look into it.

[Zilong]

Trying to write an explanation that'd make some sense with Bleach's plot and storyline will give you aneurysm.

[fantasticdan]

The whole introduction of arrancars and the menos classes was pointless, and he is yet to bring in a vasto lordes.

Ulquiorra?

[kuronosan]

Ulquiorra?

No.

[Guitarman]

on the plus side, hopefully the anime will still be out tuesday even though its golden week, the next ep is more into the ichigo/ulqimonkey fight.

[arus2001]

Aside from Aaroniero, the espada/arrancar were VLs. Unless the whole "regaining their human appearance" detail means shit for people hoping for a stronger baddie. Hell, last week AS did the little Grimmjow flashback where they babbled about Hollow evolution, and it came up where if Grimmy ate part of Shawlong and the other flunkies that died in the first KT raid, they'd never be able to become VLs, but would still serve Grim. Of course, Aizen comes along and perverts their evolution, granting them their non-released states and VL status.

The whole "stronger than a captain" line was based on SS's own lack of information (they were rare up until then), and might very well be true if the hollows were left to evolve naturally. Barragan probably could've twinked most of the captains, but that's only because his power was hax. Same for Stark. Sadly, we never really got to know the full scope of Halibel's abilities due to Aizen and the Hitsugaya fandom lending strength/plotkai.

Probably easier to think of arrancar as VLs Aizen made, while VLs themselves existed beforehand as evidenced by Barragan and Stark. Ulq's "segundo" form or whatever is probably a bit of a red herring, though understandably some comparison could be made to shikai/bankai with it. However, since #1-3 never once hinted at it (and this is a fucking Shonen, so they would), I'd say it's just one of Ulq's quirks.

Far as enemies go, I can't say I've enjoyed the Espada. Then again, this gripe might be more a result of a giant-cast-itis and the watering down of personas and histories such an ailment brings. Really hoping Aizen falls at the closure of this Arc (and I guess Gin with him), and in turn we're given someone better fleshed if Hell enters the picture. Then again, the end result of all of this could fuck up the living world and prompt a sort of reboot of juggling reality with the hollow fighting and such. The individual situations may not be a daunting threat for Ichigo in this environment, but as one guy, he can't realistically save everybody. Also gives a bit of merit to Urahara taking time to train Tatsuki and the others between the time Ichigo left for HM and his arrival against Aizen here. Focus shifts to them for a bit, and maybe then wind up fighting Ichigo's wtfhollow later on. Maybe that's the plot of the next movie, though. :/

[Stilzkin]

Aside from Aaroniero, the espada/arrancar were VLs. Unless the whole "regaining their human appearance" detail means shit for people hoping for a stronger baddie. Hell, last week AS did the little Grimmjow flashback where they babbled about Hollow evolution, and it came up where if Grimmy ate part of Shawlong and the other flunkies that died in the first KT raid, they'd never be able to become VLs, but would still serve Grim. Of course, Aizen comes along and perverts their evolution, granting them their non-released states and VL status.

The whole "stronger than a captain" line was based on SS's own lack of information (they were rare up until then), and might very well be true if the hollows were left to evolve naturally. Barragan probably could've twinked most of the captains, but that's only because his power was hax. Same for Stark. Sadly, we never really got to know the full scope of Halibel's abilities due to Aizen and the Hitsugaya fandom lending strength/plotkai.

Probably easier to think of arrancar as VLs Aizen made, while VLs themselves existed beforehand as evidenced by Barragan and Stark. Ulq's "segundo" form or whatever is probably a bit of a red herring, though understandably some comparison could be made to shikai/bankai with it. However, since #1-3 never once hinted at it (and this is a fucking Shonen, so they would), I'd say it's just one of Ulq's quirks.

Far as enemies go, I can't say I've enjoyed the Espada. Then again, this gripe might be more a result of a giant-cast-itis and the watering down of personas and histories such an ailment brings. Really hoping Aizen falls at the closure of this Arc (and I guess Gin with him), and in turn we're given someone better fleshed if Hell enters the picture. Then again, the end result of all of this could fuck up the living world and prompt a sort of reboot of juggling reality with the hollow fighting and such. The individual situations may not be a daunting threat for Ichigo in this environment, but as one guy, he can't realistically save everybody. Also gives a bit of merit to Urahara taking time to train Tatsuki and the others between the time Ichigo left for HM and his arrival against Aizen here. Focus shifts to them for a bit, and maybe then wind up fighting Ichigo's wtfhollow later on. Maybe that's the plot of the next movie, though. :/

No, arrancars are not VLs. VLs can be turned into arrancars so it doesn't make sense to see the espada as VLs that became VLs because the process of becoming an arrancar.

There's two possibilities to the VL thing. Kubo forgot about them, in which case we can imagine the top 3 were VLs. The second possibility is that Kubo intends to use them next arc.

If Aizen dies I expect someone exactly like him to replace him (so another guy that happens to have been behind everything so far). We're probably better off if Aizen just keeps on going.

[Xno Kappa]

Hopefully Aizen dies, Urahara explains everything that spewed out of Aizen's mouth was bullshit, and we're back to Post-SS status as far as story goes. Just seems like Kubo is throwing one retarded twist after another to see what resonates with the readers. Anyways, us hoping Aizen is lying is proof of the pathetic story-telling on Kubo's part. You would think by now one of the SJ executives would stop this madness and give Kubo a ghost-writer while he just sticks to drawing.

Japanese people have an idiotic sense of honor when it comes to businesses I guess.

[arus2001]

No, arrancars are not VLs. VLs can be turned into arrancars so it doesn't make sense to see the espada as VLs that became VLs because the process of becoming an arrancar.

I think you're confusing yourself there. By implying VLs can become arrancars, it suggests Aizen would've weakened them or that arrancar were a higher state. I'm just saying they're the same, but with varying degrees of power due to latent abilities or simply Aizen's lack of familiarity with the hogyoku in creating them (WW arguably being his "best" work).

There's no getting around the fact he fucked with the spiritual food chain. In turn, what SS thought they knew wasn't quite accurate, and all of Hitsugaya's "wtfness" when first fighting Shawlong (#11) and then Halibel (#3) could be explained in a few ways. Perhaps the most favorable for people here would be that, yes, VLs are still hiding in some abstract corner of HM or Hell, and we're just seeing Aizen's work as a douche. Alternative being more the route I'm looking at, where VLs are "shinigami" in the sense their hollow form is now their sword, arrancar being VLs he made and kind of "established" them like shinigami and the academy, and the espada are basically the captains of his litter, fraccion the seats/lieutenants. It's just another play on the whole mirroring thing that makes Ulq appealing in the shikai/bankai aspect of their releases. It also kinda doubles my meh-ness on these villains as a whole because, yes, it's a reskinned version of shinigami in-fighting where, outside of Aaroniero, them being hollow seemed meaningless with not real intent to consume souls or otherwise be vengeful spirits.

[Scythiroth]

Kubo forgot about them, in which case we can imagine the top 3 were VLs.

I'm leaning towards this.

The whole VL argument seems to come up every once in a while, and there really doesn't seem to be proof towards the espada being VL or not. When they first mentioned them, Ulquiorra was clearly the shadow it showed.

But yeah, author of this manga is clearly retarded, so, I prefer to just not worry about things like this at this point.

[Deadgye]

BUT the old stuff is still entertaining to read and watch.

Really? When I went to rewatch bleach I had to skip from like episode 3 until Rukia was forced to return because I realized they served absolutely zero purpose to the plot. And even worse, they're actually not worthless.. they horrible. When you rewatch the early episodes after being far in already you realize how shit doesn't add up correctly.

[Gredival]

I think you're confusing yourself there. By implying VLs can become arrancars, it suggests Aizen would've weakened them or that arrancar were a higher state.

Arrancar is a state in which the hollow attains access to shinigami powers. It is not a higher, nor lower, state than being a VL. Being a VL is a matter of your evolution as a hollow.

Think of the Vaizard. They all have masks, but obviously the former Captains with their masks will be superior to the former Lieutenants. Likewise you can make both Adjuchas and VL's both Arrancar, post transformation the former VL will still be superior.

A VL that becomes Arrancar would technically be a higher state, with respect to a plain VL... but that does not mean every Arrancar is a higher state than a VL.

outside of Aaroniero, them being hollow seemed meaningless with not real intent to consume souls or otherwise be vengeful spirits.

I understood it as their being adjuchas/arrancar meant they no longer needed to feed on human souls. They became personalities with more to do and concern themselves with than simply screwing around with humans.