Bleach

[kuronosan]

Thats the thing Toriyama knew what he was doing, he didn't try to force story into it. Bleach follows the same DB arc structure: weaker bad guy makes heroes feel hopeless, heroes train, heroes fight weaker bad guys, strong boss shows up making heroes lose all hope, main character has flashy entrance and a power up that barely makes sense, and yet Kubo tries to add some sort of dramatic plot to it. The only way he can add drama to it is through crappy dialogue, Aizen has been watching you since birth, or cheap cliffhangers.

Well, Dragonball itself was pretty believable all the way through the end of the Frieza arc (which is when it was supposed to end).

It wasn't until the Cell saga that things started to get wonky... and subsequently, it was the Buu saga that kind of spit on all canon.

Bleach has no rational explanation for why it pisses on established canon, it simply takes random things and patterns, stitches them together, and somehow tries to convince you it made a t-shirt. I will give Kubo credit in that he does seem to plan his characters very well. As a matter of fact, I'm sure he's VERY good at designing and planning his characters. His execution, coupled with poor writing and terrible pacing, is what contributes to his poor plot development.

[Tomino]

The issue with Bleach is the same with many other manga. Because of japanese creative structure of "1 man team", you often have a well-drawn but poorly scripted story.

Kubo is a good penciler and has lot of fashion sense which he puts in his work; he his good in creating galleries of characters of which most of them feel appealing and likeable; perfect for either a vg or action figures or whatever.
He simply fails as a storywriter because his plots are dull, he loses himself in endless repetitions and everything is a cliffhanger to the previous cliffhanger.

I dont know how many of you are familiar with Hokuto no Ken, but what made that manga great was that Tetsuo Hara accepted to co-create it with Buron Son, who managed to add a lot more depth to the main characters and turn the story to a much more adult audience (i'm talking manga here btw, not the first half of the anime with Kenshiro bashing an endless series of tall punks).
I'm say this because I once read a manga which was 100% Tetsuo Hara and.. well, it sucked big time because it was stupid, dull and full of clichè.

[altwight]

dbz didn't have a story. believing so makes you a dumbass. There was no plot holes in DBZ, because there was no plot. And actually, I'd say there most likely is plot holes in DBZ, but no one points them out or cares because indeed, no one watched dbz for the story.

i guess what i meant is DBZ made way more sense than bleach ever could.

[kuronosan]

What, didn't Saiyans get stronger after every near-death experience?

That plot-line was happily dropped until Cell died and then came back, but it didn't apply to Vegeta, Gohan, or even Goku after they were plastered all over the floor in previous and later chapters.

I could go on all day about things in DBZ that didn't make sense. Whenever someone does everything, something suffers. That's why all the best shows, comics, etc, have a good combination of writers, artists, and editors.

It's extremely rare that any one person can do all three.

[Serra]

I've said this before, but apart from Kubo's shitty writing, I feel one of Bleach's biggest issues is the flood of characters who all, for whatever reason, have to be involved in the action. I mean, really, did anyone care about all the lower level shinigami vs fracion fights? Still though, the best example I can think of for a completely pointless character/fight is Haibel -- just think back to how she died, literally after contributing nothing to the story. Off the top of my head, the only two characters who I can think of who haven't fought/shown signs of becoming involved in the fight are Ichigo's sisters.

Also, because there are so many characters, I'm convinced Kubo hasn't/can't think of abilities for all of them, especially the ones that have been hyped for so long, and so that's why those fights seem to happen off screen. That's why we couldn't see the fight between Yamamoto, Ukitake, and Shunsui back during the Soul Society arc, why Ukitake was taken out early, why Shunsui didn't use bankai, and why Aizen took out Urahara, Yoruichi, and Isshin without us seeing.

Also, what happened to Rangiku? She gonna show up back in soul society now? >.>

[kuronosan]

The more important question is, once they started going into the gate to soul society, why didn't Isshin just knock down the pillars while they were traversing the Senkaimon so that Aizen and co. would just end up in Soul Society and the town would reappear?

[Khajit]

Because Kubo wouldn't let him.
Actually I bet he just forgot to think of that idea kinda like how i didn't think of it despite it being so obvious in retrospect.
At the same time that still leaves an all powerful Aizen running amok in soul society when it's just been hinted at that he now eats souls.

[Tomino]

What, didn't Saiyans get stronger after every near-death experience?
That plot-line was happily dropped until Cell died and then came back

Dragonball (including the "Z" part) is a solid, amusing and all-in-one well made manga if you stop reading it with the end of Freeza. Everything makes sense and you basically follow the story of this kid Goku to adult age and him becoming saviour of the universe and avenger of his alien race. Even other main characters such as Vegeta or Piccolo make sense.

Then you have Cell which was basically forced on the author since the manga huge success. A boring and dumb sequence of 1vs1 fights for epeen.

The Bu Saga was, in my opinion, just the author making fun of his same story

[Epysian]

Also, what happened to Rangiku? She gonna show up back in soul society now? >.>

Totally forgot about her getting up to go to Gin. Guess Kubo did too.

[Siniroth]

The Bu Saga was, in my opinion, just the author making fun of his same story

Babidi's dad was Bibidi

http://i46.tinypic.com/2dmci8k.jpg

[Souj]

bibidi babidi buu!

/obvious

[Siniroth]

Nobody ever realizes it here till I point it out

[Stilzkin]

Dragonball (including the "Z" part) is a solid, amusing and all-in-one well made manga if you stop reading it with the end of Freeza. Everything makes sense and you basically follow the story of this kid Goku to adult age and him becoming saviour of the universe and avenger of his alien race. Even other main characters such as Vegeta or Piccolo make sense.

Then you have Cell which was basically forced on the author since the manga huge success. A boring and dumb sequence of 1vs1 fights for epeen.

The Bu Saga was, in my opinion, just the author making fun of his same story

No, the Freeza part was technically already pushing it. I reread all of "DB" the other day and I have to say the "ending" of it was great. Before the whole Piccolo thing Goku wasn't an actual hero, he was just some random martial artist by beating him he finally saves the world and wins the tournament, plus he has just gotten married and Roshi gives a speech to Kami about how he shouldn't destroy the dragonballs as they were able to lead to a person like Goku. DBZ from saiyan to namekian arc seems like Toriyama giving to the fans as it wraps up random questions; why are Goku and Piccolo different (not that it was needed as Tien had three eyes, and what the hell was Choazu?), and explaning where the dragon balls originally came from.

[xElipsis]

I don't know if anyone watches LittleKurriboh's Naruto Abridged videos, but they are awesome. And since I saw ppl talking about how they thought Bleach is bad, I felt like I just had to post this lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N17SGtrhQtQ

Fast forward to 8:44 and watch until the end.

It may have more effect if you watch the previous 'episodes'. They aren't too long.

Also since I derailed the thread a bit I guess I should say something about Bleach? MulletAizen VS MulletIchigo, or something like that...

[Vandole]

Did anything ever come out of the whole Nick Simmons thing?

quoting for questions needing fucking answers.

[Souj]

what do you think happened to a kid in trouble who has extremely rich parents?

[kuronosan]

quoting for questions needing fucking answers.

The comic was cancelled and nothing happened to Nick Simmons.

[*Shinzon*]

Ok so, Dattebayo plans to drop Bleach subs from their website now that Crunchyroll has obtained a streaming license. Fuck paying 11 bucks a month for a membership and fuck waiting an additional week because I'm not paying 11 bucks a month. What would be a good alternative sub to watch bleach with? D:

[Scythiroth]

Ok so, Dattebayo plans to drop Bleach subs from their website now that Crunchyroll has obtained a streaming license. Fuck paying 11 bucks a month for a membership and fuck waiting an additional week because I'm not paying 11 bucks a month. What would be a good alternative sub to watch bleach with? D:

Probably HorribleSubs if they pick it up, since they just give us Crunchyroll's subbing for free. >.>

[Deadgye]

Ok so, Dattebayo plans to drop Bleach subs from their website now that Crunchyroll has obtained a streaming license. Fuck paying 11 bucks a month for a membership and fuck waiting an additional week because I'm not paying 11 bucks a month. What would be a good alternative sub to watch bleach with? D:

It's bleach, just pretend the latest episode never came out and watch everything with a week of lag.

Ps. DBZ just works, until the 7 year gap. Bleach stopped working after the first arc.