Bleach

**Gredival** · 2013-03-14 04:17

Originally Posted by fantasticdan

I still don't get what a vasto lorde is/isn't. Has Kubo even brought up the term since Hitsugaya mentioned it that one time, when it showed the silhouette of Ulquiorra?

It's just the highest/final form of a hollow.

You have your regular hollows that Ichigo fought for like the first ten episodes. Then menos hollows, which are made of multiple hollows from cannibalization. Gillians are the lowest menos, the giant hollows that all look alike and look sorta like the thing from Spirited Away. They are formed when hollows eat each other. However Gillian are really stupid, lacking the personality/intellect you see regular hollows display. When Gillian start eating each other and there is a dominant enough hollow personality in the mix, a Gillian can become an Adjuchas. Supposedly somehow Adjuchas can continue cannibalizing to become Vasto Lordes. It's never explained what makes them special. One just assumes it's an absurdly strong hollow.

According to the databooks, Harribel was a Vasto Lorde before becoming an Arrancar, so we're talking top 3 Espada in strength.

Grand Fisher was just a regular hollow. Later on he became an Arrancar when Isshin killed him. When a hollow removes its mask, it becomes a human-like and gets a sword. Then it gains a Resurrecion to re-release its original hollow powers. Arrancars can be any type of hollow that's removed its mask.

**Uzor** · 2013-03-14 04:29

I don't think a Vasto Lorde has ever officially been "shown" in the manga, has it? It's been mentioned, but not shown. The Espada were only adjuchas-level turned in to arrancar, with the exception of Tier Harribel, who was a Vasto Lorde turned Arrancar. But again, she was an Arrancar and not technically a Vasto Lorde.

As for the Grand Fisher, he's a hollow that has evaded capture for 54 years. Wasn't it somewhat assumed that this arc takes place roughly 50 years ago? It fucks up the aging of Ishida's father, but considering we have Quincy who's over 1000 years old, that could be easily explained I suppose.

**Gredival** · 2013-03-14 04:42

Originally Posted by Uzor

I don't think a Vasto Lorde has ever officially been "shown" in the manga, has it? It's been mentioned, but not shown. The Espada were only adjuchas-level turned in to arrancar, with the exception of Tier Harribel, who was a Vasto Lorde turned Arrancar. But again, she was an Arrancar and not technically a Vasto Lorde.

Well... you could say that Ichigo's Hollow form when he fought Ulliquiorra was a VL.

Harribel's still a Vasto Lorde; being an Arrancar just means she gained Shinigami powers by removing her mask. But we never saw her natural form.

**Uzor** · 2013-03-14 04:54

It's possible, I suppose, that all Vasto Lordes look the same, similar to how all Gillian look the same. We haven't actually seen a neutral Vasto Lorde yet, so I suppose it's too early to compare them to each other.

**Kanriel** · 2013-03-14 05:20

Just to note as well: We do not know who Ishida's mother is. Ichigo could have a half-brother...

**shidobu** · 2013-03-14 08:27

Originally Posted by Kanriel

Just to note as well: We do not know who Ishida's mother is. Ichigo could have a half-brother...

oh lord.. this makes my head hurt thinking about it. Thats borderline Twilight, just no

**kuronosan** · 2013-03-14 08:30

Originally Posted by Kanriel

Just to note as well: We do not know who Ishida's mother is. Ichigo could have a half-brother...

It's pretty obvious given his hair color that his mother is Kitagiri.

**fantasticdan** · 2013-03-14 09:52

Originally Posted by Gredival

It's just the highest/final form of a hollow.

I know that, but my point is we don't really know what that actually means in terms of the characters/named hollows we've seen. Afaik, the term was never mentioned again after the beginning of the hueco mundo arc, where they were just described as the most humanoid hollows, that were stronger than captains, over a silhouette of ulquiorra. If you take that as face value, the top 4 espada, (minus barragan?) were probably all vasto lordes, and the term isn't even really relevant anymore. I don't see why people think a VL is specifically whatever ichigo ssj2 hollow form is.

**Yugl** · 2013-03-14 10:07

Originally Posted by fantasticdan

I know that, but my point is we don't really know what that actually means in terms of the characters/named hollows we've seen. Afaik, the term was never mentioned again after the beginning of the hueco mundo arc, where they were just described as the most humanoid hollows, that were stronger than captains, over a silhouette of ulquiorra. If you take that as face value, the top 4 espada, (minus barragan?) were probably all vasto lordes, and the term isn't even really relevant anymore. I don't see why people think a VL is specifically whatever ichigo ssj2 hollow form is.

The second release was never revealed to others, so the ranking doesn't account for this discrepancy.

**Serif** · 2013-03-14 11:41

Originally Posted by Kanriel

Just to note as well: We do not know who Ishida's mother is. Ichigo could have a half-brother...

His Grandma so that makes him Uuryus brother. After Masaki chose Isshin Uuryu's Mom made her have sex with her so they could keep the pure blood in the family.

Would be interesting if Orihime and Chad get tied in somehow to all of this.

**Eurell** · 2013-03-14 12:42

Originally Posted by fantasticdan

I don't see why people think a VL is specifically whatever ichigo ssj2 hollow form is.

Just because they look so familiar.

**fantasticdan** · 2013-03-14 13:56

Originally Posted by Yugl

The second release was never revealed to others, so the ranking doesn't account for this discrepancy.

The silhouette looked was of his regular form thou, albeit with a full helmet. Ulquiorra aside, stark looked completely human even before he was an arrancar, so it's hard to imagine he wasn't one, going by the only definition of vasto lorde we ever got.

Halibel was said to be one in a flashback, but I think that might have been anime only?

**Xno Kappa** · 2013-03-14 13:59

Top six Espada's were confirmed to be VL via databook.

**Gredival** · 2013-03-14 14:31

Originally Posted by fantasticdan

Ulquiorra aside, stark looked completely human even before he was an arrancar, so it's hard to imagine he wasn't one, going by the only definition of vasto lorde we ever got.

Halibel was said to be one in a flashback, but I think that might have been anime only?

I think Stark was an Arrancar before he joined Aizen, that is why he looked human already.

Harribel was specifically confirmed to be a Vasto Lorde in the databooks. She appears as one in the anime, but her appearance as a VL isn't cannon. There's also a statement in a databook somewhere that "most" Espada were Vasto Lordes, and many people have taken that to mean that Espada #0-5 must all have been Vasto Lordes.

**Tsuneo** · 2013-03-14 22:00

Originally Posted by Xno Kappa

Top six Espada's were confirmed to be VL via databook.

Which databook was that, and does that include Yammy? I have a hard time believing that he was a Vasto Lorde since his base was so weak.

**Xno Kappa** · 2013-03-14 22:22

3rd databook UNMASKED. Don't remember anything specific about Yammy though. I remember the rest were Adjuchas with the bottle-head Kaien wannabe being the only Gillian.

**Outlaw** · 2013-03-15 00:06

Reread this chapter:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v03/c019/9.html

It is all the more poignant now.

**kuronosan** · 2013-03-15 00:44

That would be funny if Ichigo killed his own mom.

**arus2001** · 2013-03-15 00:57

While I'd put it in the vaguest realm of possibility of Grand Fisher activating chibi-viking mode with a (near) death experience on Ichigo, I feel like the fallout would've been a bit more intense if so. As is, Ichigo didn't remember going rage mode on Ulq. So while that justifies a potential memory lapse, childhood trauma is also another valid reason for him blanking out on what happened. So it'd strike me more as wishful thinking, albeit tragic if true. As a character builder, I don't really think he needs that. Knowing more about his family, yes, but not him literally killing his mother instead of by happenstance.

**Xno Kappa** · 2013-03-15 01:12

This Vasto Lorde is not Grand Fisher lol.

Thread: Bleach

Thread Tools

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads