Bleach

[Uzor]

Yes it is, it was outright stated Kenpachi stole someone's sword. Please d tell me how else he got a hold of an Asauchi as a kid when no one knew who he was.

[Abandon]

Considering all of the Asauchi submitted to him instantly (something that I'm guessing is unheard of), it is likely that his new sword will just tell him everything except for maybe one thing from the get-go due to the respect it has to him, or some stupid shit like that. Remember, earlier it was stated that a Zanpakuto can refuse to learn you new stuff or help you out if you're too weak - which is why Ichigo had to fight Zangetsu on multiple occasions to get his power-ups. Now that his sword instantaneously submitted to him, it probably already knows how powerful he is and will just give it to him.

Which is why I threw out the half-joke-half-theory that his new Bankai will probably be all Bankais... An Asauchi can turn in to everything, and all of the Asauchi's submitted to him. And early on in the manga it was stated that in some cases, more than one Shinigami can gain control of the same Asauchi, at which point they have to duel over who should control the Asauchi, with the loser getting executed (which is how Kenpachi came over his sword). It's basically what the Quincy's do, and he is half-quincy after all.

congrats on arguing with yourself on the same page

[Uzor]

I didn't argue with myself. Kenpachi killed someone and stole his sword. The other guy didn't have to get executed, because he already killed him. In fact, he killed a whole bunch of people.

[Abandon]

...

You seriously said, he dueled someone over control of the same asauchi. Then you turned around and said he stole it.

He dueled someone for the right to be captain of the 11th. He offed a dude and stole it to get the sword. There is a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach:...Dust_Rebellion

Through his wandering to avoid capture, Tōshirō eventually manages to track Sōjirō down, where it is revealed that the two managed to manifest the same zanpakutō. Because it is impossible for the same zanpakuto to be wielded in Soul Society, the two were forced to fight to the death by the Central 46 Chambers of Soul Society. Tōshirō did not wish to fight, but was left with no other option as Kusaka attacked, claiming that he was the only one worthy of Hyōrinmaru. In the fight, Kusaka is defeated by Tōshirō and the authorities concluded that Tōshirō was the true owner of Hyōrinmaru, with the Military Corps carrying out his execution.

confusing story lines is bad

[Uzor]

I didn't say he dueled someone to get his asauchi. I said that an asauchi can be owned by more than one person, and the in the rare cases it happens, they duel over the ownership if it. That is how Kenpachi got his, whether he dueled the person or not we do not know, but we do know that another Shinigamis sword attuned to him, and he killed him. Whether it was before or after the Shinigami died we do not know, but I seem to remember that a sword dies with its owner. Ether way, another shinigami's sword attuned to him.

Ether way, you said all of my post was bullshit. What else is bullshit? That Quincy has been stealing bankais? It did happen. That the Asauchi submitted to Ichigo? That happened too. That Ichigo has had to fight Zangetsu on multiple occasions to get his power ups? Happened too.

Edit: I suppose it can be read as me stating he dueled someone over the sword with the "that's how he got it" comment, but that was in reference to a sword switching owner.

[Scizor]

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense Uzor. Kenpachi killed someone years ago and took his sword. He then beat the previous captain of the 11th devision and took over the title and the squad.


Your mixing Toshiro's story with Kenpachi as pointed out by Abandon

[Abandon]

[Xno Kappa]

The whole "dueling for rights to the zanpaktou" nonsense isn't canon anyways. Might as well start arguing with Bount examples.

[Deadgye]

Uzor is so wrong I almost want to stop packing up and lay out all the stupid. But he's so horribly wrong that I'll probably miss my flight.

[kuronosan]

Yes it is, it was outright stated Kenpachi stole someone's sword. Please d tell me how else he got a hold of an Asauchi as a kid when no one knew who he was.

He stole someone's asauchi. He didn't steal someone's zanpakuto. Good God here we go again:

http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/529/4

...with hard training they make it their own Zanpakuto

http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/529/5

...can get their hands on an asauchi by stealin' it from a corpse

Same page:

Not even one shinigami was able to awaken their zanpakuto without one of my asauchi

They are two distinctly different entities. This line basically tells you that Ichigo is unique in that he used Rukia's asauchi to awaken his own zanpakuto but from then on he's basically been materializing his own weapon using his spirit energy (Quincy shit).

And early on in the manga it was stated that in some cases, more than one Shinigami can gain control of the same Asauchi, at which point they have to duel over who should control the Asauchi, with the loser getting executed (which is how Kenpachi came over his sword).

NO. It was *never* stated in the manga that multiple shinigami can own the same asauchi OR zanpakuto. They don't duel over it, they don't execute the loser, end of story. You're thinking of the Diamond Dust Rebellion, which is non-canon. Not only that, the only shinigami to use another's asauchi other than Ken was Tosen. He took his dead friend's asauchi and poured his soul into it to become a shinigami.

When I said none of your post was canon, I wasn't referring to the asauchi submission or bankai theft. I was referring to you confusing how they work with movie crap and then forming baseless theories on how everything should work without thinking of the story in context.

We have always known Ichigo to have Zangetsu. Think about it this way - story-wise, would it make much sense, this late in the game, to give him a new sword to master? When have you ever seen a Shinigami just magically master his weapon because he knows who he is? Renji was on good terms with Zabimaru and he hasn't mastered shit. Hitsugaya took years of training to "perfect" his bankai and he was considered a genius who could surpass Shunsui when he's old enough.

At this point you're just throwing things out there and not really using evidence to back up what you're saying. The asauchi bowed to Ichigo because they now consider him worthy. There's no point in fighting because they can sense that he is ready to accept the relationship and responsibility of being a shinigami. It doesn't mean his sword is going to go "LOL U MY MASTER U NOW UNLOCKED LEVEL KIRIN". It means they're going to have an equal relationship.

Remember this conversation?

http://www.mangapanda.com/94-674-11/...apter-220.html

He was battling his hollow for control of the inner world. Shirosaki represents the hollowed shinigami while Zangetsu represents his true shinigami self. They are one and the same and so struggling against his hollow meant he was trying to dominate Zangetsu. The entire manga for shinigami has revolved around harmonic relationships with your zanpakuto. It wouldn't make much sense for his sword to suddenly go "Okay, turned a key. You're good to go."

We need to have inner worlds, training montages, and other explanations so that readers don't just go "Yea, that makes sense now!". You can't do that by giving him a new sword. It just wouldn't be believable. Other shinigami train for decades to achieve Bankai and the only reason Ichigo was different was thanks to Urahara's method of 3-day freebies.

So yea... slow your roll. Let's see what he cooks up. It's very doubtful he'll go the route you think he will.

[Xno Kappa]

Bottom-line, absolutely no two individuals in Soul Society have ever shared a zanpaktou. Toshiro included. Kenpachi simply killed some dude and stole an asauchi, a blank sword basically.

[Uzor]

Which is exactly what I said. The Asauchis are the swords, they're basically one and the same. Yes, they pour their souls in to the Asauchis to give them the shape of their swords. Which is what I said Kenpachi did, here:

Please do tell me how else he got a hold of an Asauchi as a kid when no one knew who he was.

I.e he stole it.

[Serra]

Bottom-line, absolutely no two individuals in Soul Society have ever shared a zanpaktou. Toshiro included. Kenpachi simply killed some dude and stole an asauchi, a blank sword basically.

Actually.. what about Tousen? Didn't he take the sword from his dead friend which was not an Asauchi?

[Yugl]

We have always known Ichigo to have Zangetsu. Think about it this way - story-wise, would it make much sense, this late in the game, to give him a new sword to master? When have you ever seen a Shinigami just magically master his weapon because he knows who he is? Renji was on good terms with Zabimaru and he hasn't mastered shit. Hitsugaya took years of training to "perfect" his bankai and he was considered a genius who could surpass Shunsui when he's old enough.

Original intent aside, lets not get carried away here. This is Shonen and Ichigo we're discussing. It's not as if the whole Asauchi training wasn't one big BS moment anyways.

[Abandon]

not completely true; it took him about 5 swings to get getsuga tensho down

[kuronosan]

Which is exactly what I said. The Asauchis are the swords, they're basically one and the same. Yes, they pour their souls in to the Asauchis to give them the shape of their swords. Which is what I said Kenpachi did, here:


I.e he stole it.

{
No.No.No.No.No....
Loop until uzor.gets.it=1;
}

[Abandon]

he is stupid.

[Uzor]

{
No.No.No.No.No....
Loop until uzor.gets.it=1;
}

Do explain how that quote is wrong. It's exactly what you said.

Actually, nvm, you're being obtuse and argue for the sake of arguing. Let's just wait and see who's right.

[Abandon]

you're hella wrong. 3 different people have pointed it out.

[kuronosan]

Do explain how that quote is wrong. It's exactly what you said.

Actually, nvm, you're being obtuse and argue for the sake of arguing. Let's just wait and see who's right.

You're contradicting yourself every time you post.