Bleach

[kuronosan]

Iunno, I didn't watch or read it, but I seem to remember someone mentioning in one of the thousands of discussions about it that the main character was stronger because he was half-human and could therefor reach a new level of SSJ or something. If that's not the case, then disregard the DB reference

That person was me, and it's pretty funny that you choose to be a dickhead when I didn't even gloat about you being wronger than Paris Hilton fucking a three-legged octopus.

[Skai]

Meh. I wouldn't read it in these times. Goku wins, krillin dies a lot. There you go.

Dude! Spoilers!

If you're gonna watch DBZ, check out DB Kai. Think that's the one where they cut out all fillers and streamlined the story. Unless I'm misunderstanding...

[Tajin]

You're correct but it still has minimal filler.

[Eurell]

Dragon Ball is 520 chapters, and that goes all the way through the end of Z. It's a quick read considering.

[Vathris]

So let me get this straight...
Ichigo is not only getting a powerup from his un-surpressed weapon, but he might also have access to blut-vene and arteriae and other quincy stuff?

[Serif]

So let me get this straight...
Ichigo is not only getting a powerup from his un-surpressed weapon, but he might also have access to blut-vene and arteriae and other quincy stuff?

It is going to be the only way he can compete with the Spirit King man!

[Jinn]

I might have missed it, but where does Final Getsuga Tenho fit into all of this? Or has it not been discussed yet?

[Tymon]

Letzt Stil?

We have no idea, really. Ichigo is a huge mystery right now. Where all of that stuff came from coherently makes no sense to me.

[Gredival]

insert wrong statement about DBZ that will provoke moarUzorHate

Verified to be wrong, but we don't need another round of kick the dead horse.

Chapter said he was suppressing the real Zangetsu the whole time. So you can say he appeared in it's place willingly. I'm happy with this explanation. For all the random crap we were speculating Kubo made it a pretty simple.

Bankai is supposed to be about materialization and subjugation of the Zanpaktou. So even if Juha-getsu suppressed the real Zangetsu and materialized, how does subjugating Juha-getsu in place of the real deal allow him to achieve Bankai (admittedly a handicapped Bankai).

The puppet would need to draw out Shirosaki, if not the true Zangetsu. Unless there's some transitive property of subjugation between his powers.

Also, what about the FGT training? That's one time that Juha-getsu truly teaches Ichigo something about his power without using Shirosaki, contrary to what he says.

I might have missed it, but where does Final Getsuga Tenho fit into all of this? Or has it not been discussed yet?

We could assume that even if his true Zangetsu was being suppressed, FGT and Mugetsu are legitimate techniques of the true Zangetsu.

[Yugl]

My understanding is that he has harbored three "battle" souls: Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy. These three souls don't freely operate within Ichigo's world, which is why Quinchigo could suppress Zangetsu and why Quinchigo and White would fight for dominance occasionally. Since Ichigo primarily trained his hollow, his training drags him through the stages of an arrancar rather than bankai. That is why his bankai resembles resurreccion and explains why Tensa Getsuga Tensho resembles Cero oscura. We don't know what type of training Arrancar require, but their power seem related to primal instincts/ferocity (Similar to that of animals/monsters). If so, we have this and this. FGT seems related to his Quincy abilities because the dialogue resembles what Quinchigo has stated here and involved his training personally (Rather than training solely with White as usual). Whether he retains his Quincy abilities after Quinchigo has left is unknown. That said, I'm still uncertain because the only similarity we saw was the consequence and magnitude of the ability. There's no word about how the technique works other than he "becomes" Getsuga. The Quincy ability manipulates rather than absorbs reishi.

[Eurell]

Also, what about the FGT training? That's one time that Juha-getsu truly teaches Ichigo something about his power without using Shirosaki, contrary to what he says.

.

Didnt he merge with shirosaki for FGT training?

[Tymon]

He merged with shirosaki for the entire thing.

FGT = Ichigo. Everyone merged together into one being, that being Ichigo.

Except now there's his shinigami powers that were not there but maybe were there but wait we don't actually know..

[Gredival]

My understanding is that he has harbored three "battle" souls: Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy. These three souls don't freely operate within Ichigo's world, which is why Quinchigo could suppress Zangetsu and why Quinchigo and White would fight for dominance occasionally.

Since Ichigo primarily trained his hollow, his training drags him through the stages of an arrancar rather than bankai. That is why his bankai resembles resurreccion and explains why Tensa Getsuga Tensho resembles Cero oscura. We don't know what type of training Arrancar require, but their power seem related to primal instincts/ferocity (Similar to that of animals/monsters). If so, we have this and this. FGT seems related to his Quincy abilities because the dialogue resembles what Quinchigo has stated here and involved his training personally (Rather than training with White as usual). Whether he retains his Quincy abilities after Quinchigo has left is unknown.

I thought we worked off the assumption that White/Shirosaki had merged with the Zangetsu, and that dual essence would compete for dominance.

The question is the relationship between this newly revealed pure-Shinigami Zangetsu that we've only seen a glimmer of, and Shirosaki, with Juha-getsu out of the equation. What does it mean that they merged?

My understanding as of right now is that all of Ichigo's techniques were pure Shinigami, just dampened by Quincy suppression. Evidence indicates that Getsuga Tenshou and Final Getsuga are both -getsu sword family techniques, not Hollow/Quincy imitations.

I always interpret Ichigo's Hollow form vs. Ulliquiorra as the "true" form of Ichigo's Hollow that had progressed to Vasto Lorde level

[Serif]

Just a train of though, probably sounds retarded.

Zangetsu/Juha said he started to enjoy Ichigo progress his Shinigami powers after a certain point. Could it possibly be after FGT?

At first he wanted all of Ichigo's Shinigami powers gone. What better way and more convenient to eliminate one of his biggest threats, that being Juha Bach, Aizen. He allows enough of his Shingami presence during the FGT training to teach Ichigo. He kills 2 birds with one stone. Ichigo loses his Shingami powers and Aizen is defeated somewhat or enough to where the real Juha could recruit him etc.,

After FGT and Ichigo losing his powers Ichigo has enough determination to try to get all of his powers back, this is where Zangetsu/Juha come respect Ichigo as stated in this last chapter.

I know the Aizen thing is a reach but so is all of this idea. :O

[fantasticdan]

FGT seems related to his Quincy abilities because the dialogue resembles what Quinchigo has stated here and involved his training personally (Rather than training solely with White as usual).

Than why did isshin know about and imply he was capable of using it himself?

[Yugl]

I thought we worked off the assumption that White/Shirosaki had merged with the Zangetsu, and that dual essence would compete for dominance.

The question is the relationship between this newly revealed pure-Shinigami Zangetsu that we've only seen a glimmer of, and Shirosaki, with Juha-getsu out of the equation. What does it mean that they merged?

My understanding as of right now is that all of Ichigo's techniques were pure Shinigami, just dampened by Quincy suppression. Evidence indicates that Getsuga Tenshou and Final Getsuga are both -getsu sword family techniques, not Hollow/Quincy imitations.

I always interpret Ichigo's Hollow form vs. Ulliquiorra as the "true" form of Ichigo's Hollow that had progressed to Vasto Lorde level

Either is possible, but if Zangetsu and White are the same, there's no point to Quinchigo saying he trained him with the power of the hollow when he taught him how to use his Zanpakuto. I took this to mean he taught him how to use his Zanpakuto like a hollow (And to see what that means, just look at the original post and the distinction between Resureccion and Bankai).

Than why did isshin know about and imply he was capable of using it himself?

I've posted reasons why Quincy abilities have difficulty explaining FGT. However, the possibility still exists because we don't know Isshin's powers. Perhaps FGT removed the Quincy/Hollow element, which leaves the "true" getsuga spirit to act. We don't know the details of his returned power (Could he have absorbed the hollow too?) or why his bankai heavily strains his body? His bankai could just be Mugetsu. We don't even know why, or even if, FGT type abilities are unique to the Getsu line.

[Guitarman]

The bankai straining his body and his supposed speed weren't mentioned after they entered Hueco Mundo the first time. I wonder if we were supposed to forget about that or what.

[fantasticdan]

I've posted reasons why Quincy abilities have difficulty explaining FGT. However, the possibility still exists because we don't know Isshin's powers. Perhaps FGT removed the Quincy/Hollow element, which leaves the "true" getsuga spirit to act. We don't know the details of his returned power (Could he have absorbed the hollow too?) or why his bankai heavily strains his body? His bankai could just be Mugetsu. We don't even know why, or even if, FGT type abilities are unique to the Getsu line.

Atm I'm thinking (vanilla) getsuga tenshou and FGT are just engetsu's abilities, and white copied them. We've learned the following in recent chapters:

-Ichigo's asuich (sp?) is white, and his 'shinigami' abilities thus far are hollow powered.
-Bachgetsu has been cockblocking his 'true' zanpakuto.
-White fought against isshin w/ engetsu twice before merging with masaki, once in the real world, once within her spirit.

So when ichigo tries to release his zanpakuto, backgetsu blocks it, and white just emulates engetsu because that's what he knows (or absorbed/merged with to some extent?) from his contact with isshin.

I'm probably reading too much into bleach thou.

The bankai straining his body and his supposed speed weren't mentioned after they entered Hueco Mundo the first time. I wonder if we were supposed to forget about that or what.

I just took the body strain stuff as ichigo's body not being able to keep up with his bankai at the time, in retrospect. As for the speed thing, I have still have no idea lol. Post SS arc, they made it seem like everyones speed is just directly correlated to their DBZ power level.

[Alarial]

My understanding is that he has harbored three "battle" souls: Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy. These three souls don't freely operate within Ichigo's world, which is why Quinchigo could suppress Zangetsu and why Quinchigo and White would fight for dominance occasionally. Since Ichigo primarily trained his hollow, his training drags him through the stages of an arrancar rather than bankai. That is why his bankai resembles resurreccion and explains why Tensa Getsuga Tensho resembles Cero oscura. We don't know what type of training Arrancar require, but their power seem related to primal instincts/ferocity (Similar to that of animals/monsters). If so, we have this and this. FGT seems related to his Quincy abilities because the dialogue resembles what Quinchigo has stated here and involved his training personally (Rather than training solely with White as usual). Whether he retains his Quincy abilities after Quinchigo has left is unknown. That said, I'm still uncertain because the only similarity we saw was the consequence and magnitude of the ability. There's no word about how the technique works other than he "becomes" Getsuga. The Quincy ability manipulates rather than absorbs reishi.

This is a great explanation .

Though, if Ichigo has essentially just been using his Hollow power (in the form of a shinigami), where his bankai is just a form of resurection.. Then the question's I have are:

1. Will he be able to continue to use any of those hollow powers (the hollow side is still a part of him. thus he should still be able to access them. However, his hollow powers aren't technically his Zanpacto anymore).

2. Does he even really get a new blade out of all of this? His "real" zanpacto was just White all along..

So it seems all we get out of this is him STILL using White as his sword, but without being suppressed, and perhaps the addition of some Quincy defensive moves.

Am I wrong? You guys seem to have a better grasp of all of this.

[Sho]

I need dat Kenpachi x Ichigo team up like yesterday. Niggas gonna be so OD. Got damn.