Bleach

**Uzor** · 2013-06-13 03:33

I hope they'll jump back to Kenpachi after this instead of the damned dog captain no one gives a flying fuck about.

**Abandon** · 2013-06-13 03:56

The body strain from teh bankai was, as someone already mentioned, his body not being used to it yet, especially since his learning of it was rushed, and not natural.

**arus2001** · 2013-06-13 05:01

For now, I'm expecting Ichigo to be able to use the viking mask for vaizard mode. His current look may remain, but I wouldn't put it past Kubo to add some of the furry frills that viking mode had, too. And while it might not mean much, just looking at the flaming outline of Zangetsu has me feeling it isn't quite going to be a katana. The blade almost seemed more like one of the GS you could see in XI, even, which would kind of be a throwback to his giant blank sword post-Rukia stab.

**Phoenyx** · 2013-06-13 06:14

Originally Posted by arus2001

And while it might not mean much, just looking at the flaming outline of Zangetsu has me feeling it isn't quite going to be a katana. The blade almost seemed more like one of the GS you could see in XI, even, which would kind of be a throwback to his giant blank sword post-Rukia stab.

Reminds me more of this: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v53/c510/14.html

**Guitarman** · 2013-06-13 15:28

Yeah I got a English claymore vibe from it too.

**Gredival** · 2013-06-13 16:34

Originally Posted by Yugl

but if Zangetsu and White are the same, there's no point to Quinchigo saying he trained him with the power of the hollow when he taught him how to use his Zanpakuto. I took this to mean he taught him how to use his Zanpakuto like a hollow (And to see what that means, just look at the original post and the distinction between Resureccion and Bankai).

That's a question of what it meant to say they were merged. I assumed he just trained him by using Shirosaki as the trainer presumably because Shirosaki had more dominion over Zangetsu than Juha-getsu, and because he was repressing the true Zangetsu.

Originally Posted by Guitarman

The bankai straining his body and his supposed speed weren't mentioned after they entered Hueco Mundo the first time. I wonder if we were supposed to forget about that or what.

Yeah it was basically Kubo'd out. The fan compensation was that his body adapted. But in reality we never see Ichigo beat anyone else on pure speed ever again. He speed never phases the Espada he fights, even though the Captains he's faster than can keep up with the Espada too.

Originally Posted by fantasticdan

his 'shinigami' abilities thus far are hollow powered.

...what?

So when ichigo tries to release his zanpakuto, backgetsu blocks it, and white just emulates engetsu because that's what he knows (or absorbed/merged with to some extent?) from his contact with isshin.

No Juha-getsu outright says that he suppressed Zangetsu and that Ichigo will now have an unrestrained Zangetsu. But there is none of this "His Hollow is just faking Shinigami" powers. Getsuga Tenshou, Final Getsuga, Mugetsu are all true Shinigami powers from the true Zangetsu.

The reason Isshin has them is that his blade, Engetsu, is from the same family. Their blades are related, though not identical. Also why would Shirosaki know about Final Getsuga or Mugetsu since Isshin never uses them on him.

White "merged" with Zangetsu. What that means, we don't know. But that's why when his Shinigami powers are awakened by Urahara, he comes out with a Hollow mask on. Because his Hollow awakens with Zangetsu.

**Eurell** · 2013-06-13 17:09

Originally Posted by Gredival

Yeah it was basically Kubo'd out. The fan compensation was that his body adapted. But in reality we never see Ichigo beat anyone else on pure speed ever again. He speed never phases the Espada he fights, even though the Captains he's faster than can keep up with the Espada too.

The quincee he fights in HM mentions Ichigos speed is way too much for him to keep up with.

Alarial · 2013-06-13 17:26

Have to admit, Kubo brushing off the entire point of Ichigo's bankai (ridiculous speed and strength) and making everyone's speed just be based off their DBZ power level always kind of irked me =(.

A captain of equal strength should be about the same speed as Ichigo pre-bankai, and should be A LOT slower than Ichigo after Ichigo bankais. Since Ichigo pretty much outclasses most/all of the captains, there is -no- captain (let alone enemies) that should even touch his speed in bankai mode, let alone mask/bankai. This is actually one of the things that pisses me off the most about the series. It just destroys all consistency in power levels/fights.

Even during the Byakuya fight where Ichigo first used his Bankai, Byakuya had no chance keeping up until he used Senkei technique (which I believe temporarly doubles Byakuya's power, which allowed him to keep up with Ichigo's speed until mask mode raped him).

Ever since then, his Bankai has been completely useless.

**BadKarma** · 2013-06-13 18:13

Originally Posted by Alarial

Have to admit, Kubo brushing off the entire point of Ichigo's bankai (ridiculous speed and strength) and making everyone's speed just be based off their DBZ power level always kind of irked me =(.

A captain of equal strength should be about the same speed as Ichigo pre-bankai, and should be A LOT slower than Ichigo after Ichigo bankais. Since Ichigo pretty much outclasses most/all of the captains, there is -no- captain (let alone enemies) that should even touch his speed in bankai mode, let alone mask/bankai. This is actually one of the things that pisses me off the most about the series. It just destroys all consistency in power levels/fights.

Even during the Byakuya fight where Ichigo first used his Bankai, Byakuya had no chance keeping up until he used Senkei technique (which I believe temporarly doubles Byakuya's power, which allowed him to keep up with Ichigo's speed until mask mode raped him).

Ever since then, his Bankai has been completely useless.

Hes been outclassed by every single villain until he had his little training arc each time as well

**kuronosan** · 2013-06-13 18:24

Actually, Byakuya still couldn't keep up with Ichigo. The only reason he was able to come close is because Ichigo's body was wearing out and slowing down.

Alarial · 2013-06-13 19:12

I kind of thought it was a little of both. Byakuya used his power boost move, and Ichigo started losing it a bit.

And as for the "outclassed by every villain" until the training arc, that's what irked me. Ichigo was supposed to be -way- faster than the Captains in bankai mode (and even supposed to be like twice as strong as a captain by the time he's about to fight Aizen, even pre-bankai mode). And yet he was just "about as fast/strong" as any one of the Espada.. Espada which the other captains had no trouble keeping up with.

His Bankai litterally served no purpose after the initial soul society arc, beyond letting him fly (which apparently any other soul reaper could do anyways..).

**Lonewind** · 2013-06-14 00:47

Originally Posted by Alarial

I kind of thought it was a little of both. Byakuya used his power boost move, and Ichigo started losing it a bit.

And as for the "outclassed by every villain" until the training arc, that's what irked me. Ichigo was supposed to be -way- faster than the Captains in bankai mode (and even supposed to be like twice as strong as a captain by the time he's about to fight Aizen, even pre-bankai mode). And yet he was just "about as fast/strong" as any one of the Espada.. Espada which the other captains had no trouble keeping up with.

His Bankai litterally served no purpose after the initial soul society arc, beyond letting him fly (which apparently any other soul reaper could do anyways..).

THISx1000! Supposedly Ichigo's bankai special is the superspeed, aside from it first being revealed, it's always been GTGTGTGTGT! The speed perspective was never pointed out again except when Ichigo was in full hollow form during Ulquiorra fight, and that wasn't even part of the Bankai's power...

**Eurell** · 2013-06-14 06:18

Except as I said, it was brought up while he was fighting Quincees lol.

And lets not forget that most of the Espada were above captain level.

Alarial · 2013-06-14 09:47

When was it brought up while he was fighting Quincees?

And the Espada being above Captain level was a joke. Nearly all of them go easily beat by the other captains (easy is relative I know). But none of the captains had any trouble keeping up with them in speed.

Honestly, it's pretty obvious what happened: Kubo gave Ichigo his super bankai powers and then realized that level of speed/strength would be broken for the rest of the series, so he toned it down/ignored it from then on.

**Eurell** · 2013-06-14 12:29

The one he fights in HM mentions his incredible speed. Nvm the fact that he kills the first one he sees in SS before he even gets a chance to react.

And the espada being taken out easily by captains? Didn't the captains have to get help from other people in pretty much every single fight?

**Guitarman** · 2013-06-14 12:43

Shunsui punked the wolf guy pretty easily once he took the fight seriously. Other than that, yeah I think most needed help.

**Eurell** · 2013-06-14 12:58

Originally Posted by Guitarman

Shunsui punked the wolf guy pretty easily once he took the fight seriously. Other than that, yeah I think most needed help.

While I agree Shnsui is stronger, let not forget that 2 vizards were also fighting stark at the same time.

Alarial · 2013-06-14 13:04

Scientist Espada dude was killed rather easily by Scientist Soul Reaper dude. Kenpachi had to go to all the trouble of using TWO HANDS to beat Espada #4. Byakayu cut himself up a bit when fighting #8, but seemed to not really break a sweat. #9 was beaten by a non LT/Captain.. Stark didn't really do -anything- exciting beyond shoot a ton of Ceros and get stabbed in the chest by flower captain (who had no trouble keeping up with Stark).

Sure the top 3 Espada had people team up against them, but flower captain didn't even bankai and never really seemed that into the fight. Stupid Ice Dragon captain kid got handled by Water Espada, but he's a giant vagina anyways.

The King of HM had to be teamed up against, but that was mostly only because of his gimmick "you can't touch me" routine.

I realize it doesn't really serve a purpose to complain here, but I can't be the only person annoyed by the inconsistencies in power and speed throughout the series.

**Guitarman** · 2013-06-14 13:08

Originally Posted by Eurell

While I agree Shnsui is stronger, let not forget that 2 vizards were also fighting stark at the same time.

they came in and got their asses beat fairly quick once he released. Thats when Shunsui kinda went "oh id better stop dicking around" and rolled stark.

Least I think that's how it went. I'll have to go watch it again. it was a good fight.

Stupid Ice Dragon captain kid got handled by Water Espada, but he's a giant vagina anyways.

I know the younger crowd loves Hitsugaya but he's boring as fuck to me.

**Serra** · 2013-06-14 13:18

I dunno what you're talking about -- one of the best scenes in the series had Hitsugaya!

Spoiler: show

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