Bleach

[Yugl]

According to Byakuya, he just condensed the power of Bankai. There's really no description of what that means, but enhanced speed just seemed to be an incidental effect.

In relation to fights, I don't think comparatively fast Espada are problematic because saying "Bankai does X" isn't the same as saying "their Bankai is best at X." Anyways, I don't think his speed has been a primary issue against his opponents. Against Grimm, the primary issue was power. Against the Hiero guy, again, power was the issue. Against Ulquiorra, we have moments where speed is an issue, but the greater issue is his ability to perceive Ulquiorra's speed and then match the power associated (Which he does when he turns horrow). Aizen is Aizen. The rest tended to feature his speed (Or I'm just too lazy to look them up)

[Guitarman]

I'm just glad Kubo decided to basically hit the reset button on Ichigo's powers. They were always lackluster for a main protagonist.

[Alarial]

According to Byakuya, he just condensed the power of Bankai. There's really no description of what that means, but enhanced speed just seemed to be an incidental effect.

In relation to fights, I don't think comparatively fast Espada are problematic because saying "Bankai does X" isn't the same as saying "their Bankai is best at X." Anyways, I don't think his speed has been a primary issue against his opponents. Against Grimm, the primary issue was power. Against the Hiero guy, again, power was the issue. Against Ulquiorra, we have moments where speed is an issue, but the greater issue is his ability to perceive Ulquiorra's speed and then match the power associated (Which he does when he turns horrow). Aizen is Aizen. The rest tended to feature his speed (Or I'm just too lazy to look them up)

Grimmjow even commented that he wasn't impressed with his Bankai, because it gave him "normal speed and strength" (when they first fought in the real world).

So it wasn't like Ichigo still had the speed advantage and just wasn't strong enough to hurt Grimmjow, he just wasn't fast at all.

So if Ichigo's bankai gives a large boost to speed and power, and that large boost allows him to be "on par" with Grimmjow (rank 6 Espada), then the other captains (who have equal or less Spirit Energy to Ichigo) shouldn't be able to keep up with the Espadas at all..

[Yugl]

According to this page, Ichigo's bankai speed is noticeable, but he wasn't able to do damage until he used Tensa Getsuga. The only way Grimm counters is by taking the attack with his forearm (No hiero, but no damage) grabbing Ichigo's Zanpakuto (Which makes speed irrelevant).

I disagree with the Espada assessment for several reason, but a few would include:
1. Reiatsu ignores properties of attacks (How would Starrk compete with Baraggan's attack?)
2. Reiatsu can enhance, but does not equate to, attack power
3. The term used was "Captain level", but that's incredibly vague considering the variety among Captains of SS

[Sho]

I'm just glad Kubo decided to basically hit the reset button on Ichigo's powers. They were always lackluster for a main protagonist.

Lackluster? Lets face it, Ichigo had a One Trick Pony in two flavors: Getsuga Tenshou in Shikai and Bankai. He didn't even use the skill set that White had, which was a shame. Maybe he will now.

[AoE]

Lackluster? Lets face it, Ichigo had a One Trick Pony in two flavors: Getsuga Tenshou in Shikai and Bankai. He didn't even use the skill set that White had, which was a shame. Maybe he will now.

For real. Every time he fought his hollow, his hollow took over, or the few times he took his head out of his ass, the brutality of his fighting style always left me with goosebumps. If he fought like that all the time, he would be incredibly dangerous simply due to how unpredictable he is when he fights that savagely.

It's ironic how white brought out his best and he instead rejected it.

[Insanecyclone]

So like Ichigo's bankai clothes are black instead of white like the hollow.

dun dun duuuunlalalala dunn

[Ayn]

My only hope is that if they animate this, they give Juha Bach Master Asia's voice.

Though, given the whole Bankai stealing thing, I'd also be happy with Norio Wakamoto.

"NO BANKAI EVER"

[Abandon]

oh christ. master asia, PLEASE. brb, marathoning G Gungam

[Insanecyclone]

[Ayn]

oh christ. master asia, PLEASE. brb, marathoning G Gungam

If you were stationed in the same area of Japan as my cousin, I'd buy you a drink for that comment whenever I decide to visit him.

[Serra]

My only hope is that if they animate this, they give Juha Bach Master Asia's voice.

Though, given the whole Bankai stealing thing, I'd also be happy with Norio Wakamoto.

"NO BANKAI EVER"

If they do animate it, I bet they'll just use the same VA who did Zangetsu.

[Ayn]

I want to believe.

[Abandon]

If you were stationed in the same area of Japan as my cousin, I'd buy you a drink for that comment whenever I decide to visit him.

where is he?

[Ayn]

Sasebo, I think?

[Kanriel]

So what about this theory?

Ichigo's "bankai" wasn't necessarily a true bankai because technically he was tapping into his Quincy powers, right? So wouldn't that make his Bankai super powerful in SS, because the entire thing is soul particles that the Quincy use for fighting? Thus the latent effect of Ichigo's bankai is superspeed inside of SS exclusively. Which would explain a supposed 'power down' in the other realms that he fought in.

[Eurell]

No. Grimjow and a quincee have both mentioned his super speed bankai outside of SS.

[Abandon]

So what about this theory?

Ichigo's "bankai" wasn't necessarily a true bankai because technically he was tapping into his Quincy powers, right? So wouldn't that make his Bankai super powerful in SS, because the entire thing is soul particles that the Quincy use for fighting? Thus the latent effect of Ichigo's bankai is superspeed inside of SS exclusively. Which would explain a supposed 'power down' in the other realms that he fought in.

wut

[Gredival]

So what about this theory?

Ichigo's "bankai" wasn't necessarily a true bankai because technically he was tapping into his Quincy powers, right? So wouldn't that make his Bankai super powerful in SS, because the entire thing is soul particles that the Quincy use for fighting? Thus the latent effect of Ichigo's bankai is superspeed inside of SS exclusively. Which would explain a supposed 'power down' in the other realms that he fought in.

FFS. His Zangetsu up to now wasn't his Quincy power. His Quincy power was in conflict with his Shinigami power and limiting it, then pretended to be Zangetsu. That's why Zangetsu-Juha disappears so that Ichigo can access the totality of Zangetsu.

The speed has always existed, and has been referenced, it just hasn't been a "game changing" advantage for Ichigo since the Byakuya fight despite the fact it should be. For example, Grimjaow fought pretty evenly and never had trouble going blow for blow with Ichigo despite Ichigo having both Bankai speed AND Vaizard mask. So the 6th Espada can keep up with super-speed Hollow Mask Ichigo in speed, yet the rest of the Captains don't get outpaced by the Espada they fight. Harribel doesn't run circles around Hitsugaya. It's just inconsistency on Kubo's part.

According to Byakuya, he just condensed the power of Bankai. There's really no description of what that means, but enhanced speed just seemed to be an incidental effect.

Most Bankais are an expansion or multiplication of power. For example, Byakuya's Senbonzakura Kageyoshi is his Shikai on a 1000x scale. Comparatively, Ichigo's Bankai is a compression of his power. It doesn't increase the raw power, but it allows Ichigo to more easily wield the already massive destructive power of his Shikai. That translates to the massive increase in speed.

We've never actually gotten a confirmation that Black Getsuga Tenshou is stronger -- it's just a lot more useful when Ichigo can potentially fire them simultaneously by zipping around in Bankai speed.

In relation to fights, I don't think comparatively fast Espada are problematic because saying "Bankai does X" isn't the same as saying "their Bankai is best at X." Anyways, I don't think his speed has been a primary issue against his opponents. Against Grimm, the primary issue was power. Against the Hiero guy, again, power was the issue. Against Ulquiorra, we have moments where speed is an issue, but the greater issue is his ability to perceive Ulquiorra's speed and then match the power associated (Which he does when he turns horrow). Aizen is Aizen. The rest tended to feature his speed (Or I'm just too lazy to look them up)

Yes the fact Ichigo's Bankai doesn't increase his raw power has always been the downfall. He's had to rely on his already high normal damage output, then augment that with his Vaizard power boost.

But we never saw the raw potential of speed that Ichigo first demonstrated against Byakuya again. Ichigo was able to slash fast enough to deflect one million Senbonzakura petals, and twice instantly get his blade to the throat of a Captain.

Even if he doesn't have power to land a killing blow using his speed vs. an Espada, we never see him able to use that speed to score free hits or anything. The speed literally doesn't pose an issue ever. Espadas are never frustrated with landing blows against Ichigo. If an Espada is fast enough to keep up with Ichigo, they should absolutely run circles around the other Captains. But they never do.

[Ayn]

I mean we could always chalk this up to being Kubo but..

Maybe part of him being able to get the sword to the throat of Byakuya was partially Byakuya being so arrogant that he wouldn't expect some substitute Shinigami to be able to pull that, much less one he'd curb-stomped and Rock Lee'd a few weeks ago. Thus he really didn't come in with his level of game raised from the start.

I mean he was probably expecting to just Yamcha Ichigo earlier on, just like he did with Yamcha---er, I mean Renji, earlier.