Bleach

[Lonewind]

the offhand sword do look like the offhand sword of Cloud in Advent Children, though shorter. I do like the looks of the new swords.

[kuronosan]

from my interpretation of the chapter, he's saying he'll no longer be giving in to one of the random entities that were inside of him, because he now understands that it is all a part of him. therefore, white going batshit crazy should be a thing of the past.

This was how I read it. He's basically not going to ask them for assistance or subvert them or dominate them because he acknowledges that they are a part of him and doing so only weakens his strength. He's accepting their power without asking for it and in turn will use it to fight by himself.

Before, when he was asking to be lent power or asking for cooperation he was indirectly conflicting with himself by acting as though without them he didn't have the strength to fight but they are, in essence, him.

Kudos to Kubos though for naming this chapter "The Blade Is Me".

[Deadgye]

I like the look myself. I'm hoping he will go through some more training with the new swords and get some different abilities besides just Getsuga Tenshou. Maybe the blades aren't entirely separate. The handle of the large sword looks odd. Maybe they can be attached and wielded naginata style. Either way I can't wait to see what Ichigo will be able to do now.

the offhand sword do look like the offhand sword of Cloud in Advent Children, though shorter. I do like the looks of the new swords.

Speaking of which, it looks like the smaller sword fits inside the bigger sword's hole, allowing for a two-handed one-big-sword approach as well. Great sword AND nitouryuu? I can't wait to see the new bankai. It better be fucking sword-chucks or something.

[Alarial]

Can someone that knows a lot more about bleach explain to me how this fits in with Ichigo's FGT training?

I was under the impression Bachgetsu and Whitey had already merged during FGT training (well not merged, but showed Ichigo they were the same being/representation of his soul the entire time). So now we're back to representing them as two separate entities, where he can call on and use both sides of his power... Just seems inconsistent.

[Abandon]

He's finally accepted that instead of two entities inside of him dueling for control of him, and him battling back, or asking for help to fight... all of them ARE him. There are no more competitions. There is no more "Bachgetsu and Whitey had already merged." This is him finally knowing the full extent of what he is, and knowing all of it IS him, and that he has full access to his heritage.

Self confidence, if you will.

[Deadgye]

Remember the way that he obtained FGT? It was by realizing that Zangetsu'z can't 'harm' him and that he should accept them. Or some shit like that. Now it's sort of the same, except that he also understands everything.

[kuronosan]

Pretty much that. Zangetsu/White FGT training was essentially what we're getting now except Ichigo didn't acknowledge them as separate powers he possessed - he believed White was his hollow while Zangetsu was his shinigami essence.

Now that he knows White is actually Zangetsu and that Bach represents his Quincy essence, he can accept them "for real" and thus obtain that power again.

[Alarial]

I guess.

Just seems like FGT training = "I accept that both of you are me and the core of my power. Now I'm a super awesome trancendent being."

While this current stuff = "I accept that both of you are me and the core of my power, so now I'm going to dual weild you guys!"

With the only difference being he "knows" his powers are actually Quincy/Hollow based.

Like what does self confidence and "knowledge" of heritage really get you? +2 strength and charisma? The ability to fully control those sides of his soul/power? (Ichigo can now use Sonido, Cero, Blute, Bankai, etc..?)

[Eurell]

I guess.

Just seems like FGT training = "I accept that both of you are me and the core of my power. Now I'm a super awesome trancendent being."

While this current stuff = "I accept that both of you are me and the core of my power, so now I'm going to dual weild you guys!"

With the only difference being he "knows" his powers are actually Quincy/Hollow based.

Like what does self confidence and "knowledge" of heritage really get you? +2 strength and charisma? The ability to fully control those sides of his soul/power? (Ichigo can now use Sonido, Cero, Blute, Bankai, etc..?)

Well now it allows him to fully use his shingami powers since he has a real zanpaktu. Since earlier his quincee side was actually not allowing him to use all those powers. Says it in the chapter lol.

[Alarial]

Yes, I saw that lol.

But that's inconsistent with his FGT training, which showed Bach/Whitey fully merged and at full potential (Bach not suppressing Whitey, which is/was the source of Ichigo's Shinigami powers).

So if FGT = Ichigo fully unsuppressed and with both his Whitey and Bachgetsu powers. How is that really different now, except that he keeps the two entities seperate for some reason.

Just seems inconsistent. But I'm assuming I'm just confused.

[kuronosan]

Yes, I saw that lol.

But that's inconsistent with his FGT training, which showed Bach/Whitey fully merged and at full potential (Bach not suppressing Whitey, which is/was the source of Ichigo's Shinigami powers).

So if FGT = Ichigo fully unsuppressed and with both his Whitey and Bachgetsu powers. How is that really different now, except that he keeps the two entities seperate for some reason.

Just seems inconsistent. But I'm assuming I'm just confused.

It's no different. It's only now that he knows that they are two distinctly different powers that are part of him - before he thought White was just a hollow. Now he knows White is actually Zangetsu. I said that already. Now that he knows who they are and what parts of him they represent he can wield them accordingly.

Yes, it is a stupid bullshit retcon... but one that is easily explained.

[Alarial]

Ok I'll just live with that and move on lol. Thanx.

[Tymon]

They're still going to have to explain why FGT was so much stronger than this was.

It's -not- Lezts Stil. Isshin tried to learn it and got showed the door by Engetsu. Pureblood shinigami.

What the fuck was that then?

Actually, it's not even FGT. He got to that point from training to attain FGT. So what the hell was THAT? If it's the same thing that he has right now, shouldn't he be vaporizing shinigami from his presence alone?

[Alarial]

They're still going to have to explain why FGT was so much stronger than this was.

It's -not- Lezts Stil. Isshin tried to learn it and got showed the door by Engetsu. Pureblood shinigami.

What the fuck was that then?

Actually, it's not even FGT. He got to that point from training to attain FGT. So what the hell was THAT? If it's the same thing that he has right now, shouldn't he be vaporizing shinigami from his presence alone?

Exactly. His "post FGT" training form was just him accepting that his power was the combination of the two forces. He was a god at that point essentially (trancended being), that moved mountains at the turn of a blade.

You could argue that when he got his powers back, Bachgetsu started suppressing whitey again, hence why he wasn't as strong as he was post FGT training.

However now that he's back to having both forces un-restrained, he should be a trancendent being again.. albeit a dual weilding one.

[kuronosan]

*sigh*

[Abandon]

They're still going to have to explain why FGT was so much stronger than this was.

It's -not- Lezts Stil. Isshin tried to learn it and got showed the door by Engetsu. Pureblood shinigami.

What the fuck was that then?

Actually, it's not even FGT. He got to that point from training to attain FGT. So what the hell was THAT? If it's the same thing that he has right now, shouldn't he be vaporizing shinigami from his presence alone?

1) We don't know if this is stronger/weaker than FGT, stop jumping to conclusions, holy shit.
2)Isshin didn't try to learn Lezts Stil, he's not a fucking Quincy.
3) Perhaps there are other things that would suit you better than reading bleach. Maybe try chugging it.

[Alarial]

It's not a terrible assumption to say Ichigo isn't (and will never be) as strong as he was post FGT training. It's also not terrible of us to be a bit annoyed/confused by the inconsistency in powers/abilities after he's able to use both sides of his power to the fullest.

Also, if this isn't a good place to discuss Bleach, and thereby discuss plot inconsistencies (or ask for other people's insight), then what is?

You coming in and acting like a spoiled child because you're "forced" to read other people's legitimate comments on the Manga just comes off as sophomoric and immature.

[Abandon]

Legitimate? Saying Isshin was "showed the door by Engetsu" without any proof is just silly. That is not a legit claim. Saying Ichigo will never be as strong as he was when performing FGT without proof of such (as it hasn't been written yet) is silly. That is not a legit claim.

Plot inconsistencies are one thing; you two making up stuff with no concrete evidence is stupid.

It's also not terrible of us to be a bit annoyed/confused by the inconsistency in powers/abilities after he's able to use both sides of his power to the fullest.

He wasn't using all of his powers to the fullest. That's where the entire argument becomes funny. We were just told his quincy blood was supressing his shinigami powers, and that he hadn't manifested his quincy powers until he came in contact with Juha. Instead of jumping to conclusions, go back and read the chapters. While some of it is full of plotholes and retcons, a good hunk of what you guys are questioning has already been stated. This is why people in here are getting annoyed by the things some of you are saying.

[Abandon]

Also, if this isn't a good place to discuss Bleach, and thereby discuss plot inconsistencies (or ask for other people's insight), then what is?

I'm sure there's a place other than BG for you to state your thoughts without being criticized to bits. You've been a member of BG since 2008 and you haven't figured out that this place is full of assholes yet? You may truly be better off googling another forum for your ideas.

[Alarial]

You're making just as many assumptions. You're just accepting specific assertions as logically consistent that other people (like myself) do not agree with.

Post FGT training was Ichigo "at his fullest" using "all of his combined power" - Which was all of Bachgetsu and all of Whitey. Unless you're attempting to say post FGT training Ichigo was still a supressed Ichigo?

That being said, it's not illegitimate to state the Ichigo is not and will never be as strong as he was post FGT training. Yes, it's an assumption. But it's an assumption based on the representations Kubo made during that last fight with Aizen. Ichigo at that time was a transcendent being that was so powerful that even Aizen couldn't sense his spiritual energy. A mere slash of his blade destroyed mountains. That form was meant to be the closing of that arc/series (Ichigo reached the max potential for his being).

Thus, it's not illegitimate to assume that Kubo won't let Ichigo go "god mode" again in the series. Hence the problem with giving him the SAME access to unrestricted dual powers. Hence the problem with him getting unrestricted dual powers and it being represented as "dual weilding" instead of the post FGT "sword attached to hand" trancendent being representation.

Additionally, I didn't say he was shown the door by Engetsu, and I agree with you that this wasn't the case (It's assumed Isshin was indeed taught the technique for some reason, and either used it/got his powers back, or never had to use it. Either way, he knew of the technique somehow).

As for BG, I'm fine with people being assholes in various sections. People are generally dicks to each other in the FFXI section because they're competing players. People are dicks to each other in the politics and religion section because, well, it's politics and religion.

Being a dick in the Manga section because YOU make assumptions/conclusions and thereby disagree with other readers, is not as justified. This is a thread for people that love bleach. Most, if not all of my comments have been addressed as questions to people that have read more/know more about the series. I'm asking more than asserting.

Telling someone to drink bleach because they bring up some perceived plot holes is childish.