Bleach

**Serra** · 2013-06-21 05:33

Not gonna take credit for this, but apparently the shorter sword looks like a German sword called a Dussack.
http://freifechter.com/Dusacks.jpg

So some evidence that the shorter sword is tied to his Quincy side.

**kuronosan** · 2013-06-21 09:40

Nice catch.

**Boyiee** · 2013-06-21 13:24

Holy fucking text in this thread, I hate every single one of you.

There is a reason I slowed down my posting in this thread and Naruto, I got tired of assumptions and people not reading the damn Manga.

Thank you Abandon, kuro and gred.

Alarial · 2013-06-21 13:28

Cool Story.

**Boyiee** · 2013-06-21 13:36

Sorry it wasn't as humorous as your posts.

Alarial · 2013-06-21 13:57

No problem :D.

On a related note, I wonder why Ichigo even has the Engetsu line of attacks. It's infered that Zapakuto traits/powers can pass down through families. So when a Soul Reaper gets their Zanpakuto for the first time (a process we haven't been educated about), they essentially pick an Assaichi (sp?) that represents their bloodline's power/abilities (or the Assaichi forms into a Zanpakuto that consists of those traits based on the user's bloodline/power).

For Ichigo however, his Zanpakuto was based off of Whitey. Though I guess they already explained that since Whitey was a being similar to the Assaichis, and just manifested Ichigo's natural Soul Reaper powers (which was based off his Engetsu bloodline).

I would just expect Ichigo's Zanpakuto to manifest more than just the Engetsu line of abilities (and perhaps we'll see that now that Ichigo has had his self-realization).

No idea what powers his Quincy sword would have though.

**Serra** · 2013-06-21 14:18

Ummm, when was that inferred? The only Shinigami we know who are related by blood are Ichigo and his dad. Everyone else in Soul Society isn't a blood related family.

And we've been pretty well educated on the process at this point.. Shinigami get an Asauchi, a blank template, when they graduate the academy (I thought it was when they entered, but I guess it's graduate unless this is a mistranslation..). Then they do everything with the sword, imprinting their soul on it and transforming it into their own Zanpakutou

Spoiler: show

The Asauchi have no traits, they're blank until the Shinigami puts his or her soul into it.

**Xno Kappa** · 2013-06-21 14:37

Originally Posted by Serra

So some evidence that the shorter sword is tied to his Quincy side.

That...and the actual panel showing bachgetsu and shirosaki both representing a sword lol.

**kuronosan** · 2013-06-21 15:05

I'm just curious, but have even read this whole manga Alarial? Your posts are similar to Uzor in which you make a claim about something but then don't really offer up proof as to why it's true.

We already know the process of getting a zan and how it forms from the bond between asauchi and shinigami.

What we don't know is why Ichigo is so different from everyone else and why his main attack is much like his father's.

It can also be inferred from what Isshin told us that he knows the final getsuga. How else would he know the process?

At this point it's pretty obvious that Kubo had intended for Isshin's power loss to stem from using that technique but, after the fullbring arc, changed his mind in favor of a superior idea. Unfortunately, you can't undo what was written so the best we can hope for is for him to close as many holes as he can.

**Bail** · 2013-06-21 15:13

Really enjoyed the last two chapters. I think I'm ready for a little Kenpachi action though. Ichigo can use the off-screen time to develop his new trump card move.....DOUBLE GETSUGA TENSHO!

**Serif** · 2013-06-21 15:15

Originally Posted by Serra

Ummm, when was that inferred? The only Shinigami we know who are related by blood are Ichigo and his dad. Everyone else in Soul Society isn't a blood related family.

And we've been pretty well educated on the process at this point.. Shinigami get an Asauchi, a blank template, when they graduate the academy (I thought it was when they entered, but I guess it's graduate unless this is a mistranslation..). Then they do everything with the sword, imprinting their soul on it and transforming it into their own Zanpakutou

Spoiler: show

The Asauchi have no traits, they're blank until the Shinigami puts his or her soul into it.

Wasn't Byakuka and his Grandfather in the manga? Never shown his shilai but they were related.

**Xno Kappa** · 2013-06-21 15:17

Originally Posted by Alarial

On a related note, I wonder why Ichigo even has the Engetsu line of attacks.

Really?

Ichigo has access to the getsu line of attacks because he's Isshin's son, because their souls are family, because its the same father/son trope shounen mangas love reusing.

Some of you really go out of your way to make this complicated.

Alarial · 2013-06-21 16:09

Originally Posted by kuronosan

I'm just curious, but have even read this whole manga Alarial? Your posts are similar to Uzor in which you make a claim about something but then don't really offer up proof as to why it's true.

We already know the process of getting a zan and how it forms from the bond between asauchi and shinigami.

What we don't know is why Ichigo is so different from everyone else and why his main attack is much like his father's.

It can also be inferred from what Isshin told us that he knows the final getsuga. How else would he know the process?

At this point it's pretty obvious that Kubo had intended for Isshin's power loss to stem from using that technique but, after the fullbring arc, changed his mind in favor of a superior idea. Unfortunately, you can't undo what was written so the best we can hope for is for him to close as many holes as he can.

I've read the parts up to Aizen's battle, and the first half of this Arc. I'm still catching up.

I had missed the panel that Serra quoted (thanx Serra), that showed process in which each Soul Reaper obtained their blade.

http://i15.mangapanda.com/bleach/523/bleach-3844647.jpg

I didn't make a claim of anything however. I said it was "inferred" that traits/abilities are shared among bloodlines, mostly from the fact that our only known father/son combination possess the same Engetsu line of traits.

That could be a poor inference, but it's not "holy shit have you read the Manga" stupid, or totally out of left field.

@Serra: Also, beyond that (not illogical) inference, my understanding is that the Soul Society is/was pretty much ran by the noble households. Thus, families with major spiritual pressure necessarily exist together in the Soul Society. Whether they also tend to share powers/abilities is speculative.

And people need to change out their tampons.

I infer that Zanpakuto abilities/traits can pass along bloodlines, and Serra proclaims it wasn't inferred anywhere, while Xno Kappa proclaims it's obvious because they're father/son and that's the same shounen trope.

I'm not making wild 'Uzor' type speculations here out of left field, so fucking relax. (Also, I apologize to Uzor, I don't know him or know his posting habits/credibility).

**Guitarman** · 2013-06-21 16:35

At this point it's pretty obvious that Kubo had intended for Isshin's power loss to stem from using that technique but, after the fullbring arc, changed his mind in favor of a superior idea. Unfortunately, you can't undo what was written so the best we can hope for is for him to close as many holes as he can.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I was thinking about this and came to the same conclusion. Looks like I wasn't far off. I'm really interested to see Isshin fight, and hopefully see the extent of his powers, including his bankai (along with Urahara's), I'm just afraid Kubo would go down the whole Ichigo "ill save you dad!!" trope.

**kuronosan** · 2013-06-21 16:52

There is a reason it's called a trope, Alarial. It's not because Hiro is making it up, it's because it's a common element in stories.

Instead of acting like a douche and saying people need to change their tampons, you should probably examine what people are saying and ask why they're coming to these conclusions. You'll see we have a consistent record of being right.

If I'm wrong about something, I own up. Ask anyone.

**Abandon** · 2013-06-21 16:57

what in the hell happened while i was asleep? i feel as if more assumptions were made without reading.

**kuronosan** · 2013-06-21 17:01

Originally Posted by Abandon

what in the hell happened while i was asleep? i feel as if more assumptions were made without reading.

P.much

Alarial · 2013-06-21 17:03

I'm aware of why it's called a trope.

I was pointing out that regardless of what comment I make, someone is going to be upset. It's a perspective issue at this point. If it comes out of your mouth, it's jesus's blood. If it comes out of mine, it's a wild inference (even if you choose to not actually point out which specific statement I've made that is a wild speculation).

I made the inference that powers/abilities can pass along bloodlines, and Serra disclaimed that was a poor inference, while Kappa proclaimed it was obvious.

I pointed out earlier my annoyance at the power inconsistencies with Ichigo's current form and his post FGT training form, and I'm chastised for "assuming his post FGT training form is more powerful than he is now." That wasn't a wild assumption given that Kubo represented him as a trancedent being that was merged with his Zanpakuto.

I pointed out my annoyance that Kubo had represented Ichigo as already acknowledging that Bachgetsu+Whitey were both part of his power (and one and the same entity), and thus the current Dual Form representation was inconsistent. People then came back to proclaim that the forms were never merged and that wasn't canon (just to be shown wrong).

So far, the only "wrong" thing I've said is that I/we didn't know the process in which a Soul Reaper gets their' Zanpakuto. I was wrong there because I hadn't seen that panel. I apologize. We still don't know however if the traits for a Zanpakuto are similar among souls that are related.

Other than that, what have I been wrong about? What wild speculation have I made?

**kuronosan** · 2013-06-21 17:10

Must we really go through this again? I never said my words were sacred. I said if somebody in this thread, who had been reading the manga since the beginning and has experience with similar stories, tells you something... good discussion demands you consider the opinion. You don't make conjectures based on ludicrous observations, insult people, and then victimize yourself.

The forms were never merged because they were never separate. That's the point. Taking in recent canon means you have to accept Kubo's retcons. It comes with reading this manga, which contradicts itself every arc.

Don't worry, it's not as though we're not annoyed. We've just seen so much of it by now that we just accept it and move on.

Alarial · 2013-06-21 17:17

That's fine, and I apologize if that's what I've done.

I'm just disagreeing that I've made any 'conjectures based on ludicrouse observations.' I've also not insulted anyone beyond asking that Abandon not tell people to kill themselves for expressing a different opinion about the Manga.

I'm also not wanting to victimize myself. I'd just like to participate in the conversation without every post being insulted, without direct citations/explainations of why I'm wrong.

I'm completely fine with being called out as being wrong, but being told I'm making wild speculations without backing that comment up is frustrating. I've made no wild speculations. Perhaps you're taking my comments in tow with other posters.

Either way, I appreciate everyone's feedback. The reason I post here is because you guys DO know more than I do about this Manga and I appreciate your perspective.

Thread: Bleach

Thread Tools

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads