Bleach

[Deadgye]

No reason to believe this.

Getsuga is the essence of both -getsu swords. The -getsu Zankpaktous, while "part of" the Shinigami user, are not the same as Getsuga itself. They are a medium through which to channel Getsuga... for example using reiatsu to channel Getsuga as lazers (Getsuga Tenshou).

FGT however is about becoming Getsuga. That is to say, it's the elimination of the middle-man Zanpaktou and allowing the Shinigami to directly and physically manifest Getsuga. This means FGT is fusing the Shinigami directly with the source of power -- not fusing with the sword which is a medium of that power.

Eh... that's not any different from what I said. I'm confused as to why you called it out and then repeated what I said in different words.

It is not a Quincy emulation. Ishida's super Quincy form and the resulting loss of power was just him removing the limits on his body drawing in reishi from the environment and burning out as a result. The technique is basically feeding too much NOS into an engine. You get an explosion of power, but you totally wreck the fuel intake system and roast it in exchange for that burst. So you win the race, but the car gets totaled.

The techniques are similar in that they are a shounen trope of a final technique which the user gives up a sacrifice in exchange for a massive power boost... but the mechanics of the techniques are discernibly different. One is a merging between the user and a discrete

Maybe I worded it badly, but I didn't mean he was emulating or mimicing the quincy technique. I was just flat out saying they're basically the same technique, or perhaps it's better to say it's the shinigami version of the quincy technique. It seems that we may be disagreeing at this point though? Even if one is blowing his engine by using NOS and the other is blowing his engine by being above the rev limit for too long, they're still both blowing their engine.

Ichigo was further shown to have merged with his Zanpakuto (it was part of his right arm).

No, no, no, no. This was a metaphysical sentence. A metaphor. FFS in the very picture you linked you can clearly see he's just holding his sword.

Hence our current frustration: Ichigo went god mode by realizing his power was both Whitey and Bachgetsu as one,

No, he accepted the fact that they are powers that exist inside him; he still feared his 'hollow' powers and didn't know that his hollow powers were also his shinigami powers. He hadn't yet accepted that his real shinigami powers, and therefore hollow powers, were not something inside of him -- but rather are him.

[Tajin]

Ya'll folks having a party in here

[Alarial]

@Deadeye:

I don't know about the Manga (don't have time to look it up at this moment), but the Anime clearly said his sword was attached to his arm (like Aizen's) after his FGT training.

As for your last comment, I don't really see anything to back that statement up. It was clearly explained to him during his FGT training that whitey/bachgetsu were the source of his power and were in fact one and the same entity, and he clearly accepted them as his own power when he let the merged entity stab him.

Saying he hadn't really accepted his real shinigami powers is just grasping at straws to make the current storyline fit with the FGT storyline.

[Gredival]

Eh... that's not any different from what I said. I'm confused as to why you called it out and then repeated what I said in different words.

Maybe I worded it badly, but I didn't mean he was emulating or mimicing the quincy technique. I was just flat out saying they're basically the same technique, or perhaps it's better to say it's the shinigami version of the quincy technique.

It wasn't a matter of wording it badly. The phrasing matters because the small details matter.

Using your personal reiatsu to channel a different form of energy and fire it from a sword or charge your sword (Getsuga Tenshou) is different from channeling the reiatsu in the environment into an arrow and firing it from a bow. Just because both attacks are energy blasts doesn't mean "his attack is basically a quincy attack through a sword instead of a bow."

The reason the small difference is relevant is you keep trying to say that Zangetsu's techniques are similar to Quincy techniques. And this is not true. And it doesn't make sense from a plot perspective because Isshin has the same techniques despite not being half-Quincy.

Maybe it will be different now because Ichigo poured his soul into forming the new Zangetsu and we have a dual blade that is explicitly formed out of his Quincy powers. But nothing Ichigo has done up til now (except manifesting Blut vs. Juha) has had anything to do with his Quincy heritage.

Even if one is blowing his engine by using NOS and the other is blowing his engine by being above the rev limit for too long, they're still both blowing their engine.

In the respect FGT and LS are both "sacrifice moves" yes they are similar. But with respect to the mechanics of the technique they are completely different.

FGT allows the a Shinigami with a -getsu Zanpaktou to directly and physically manifest Getsuga instead of firing it through their sword (i.e. Getsuga Tenshou). Meaning FGT fuses the Shinigami directly with the source of power (Getsuga) at the sacrifice of the Zanpaktou that normally works as the medium.

LS is, like I described, a technique in which the Quincy draws in more environmental reishi than their body is capable of handling, resulting in tremendous increase in arrow power but destroying the body's reishi intake system.

The reason the small difference is relevant is you keep trying to say that Zangetsu's techniques are similar to Quincy techniques. And this is not true. And it doesn't make sense from a plot perspective because Isshin has the same techniques despite not being half-Quincy.

You kept bringing up the fact Ichigo gets stabbed "2cm from the heart" like Ishida does to restore his power, to draw a link between the techniques. It's not because the techniques are related that you reverse the power loss the same way. It's because that's a major channel for reiatsu. We learned that in like Chapter 20 when Byakuya stabbed him there to remove Rukia's power.

[Abandon]

@Deadeye:

Saying he hadn't really accepted his real shinigami powers is just grasping at straws to make the current storyline fit with the FGT storyline.

We were just told he hadn't accessed his full shinigami powers becuase Juha was blocking them the entire time. He allowed him more access to ensure Ichigo would live, but we can be relatively sure he still hasn't accessed his full shinigami powers. Following that logic, we can say that as far as we've been told, he has NOT accepted his real shinigami powers until now.

[kuronosan]

Please don't use the anime to argue about the manga. That's like using bicycles to argue about a Harley.

[Abandon]

BUT ITS EASIER TO UNDERSTAND

[Alarial]

We were just told he hadn't accessed his full shinigami powers becuase Juha was blocking them the entire time. He allowed him more access to ensure Ichigo would live, but we can be relatively sure he still hasn't accessed his full shinigami powers. Following that logic, we can say that as far as we've been told, he has NOT accepted his real shinigami powers until now.

Right. I'm fully aware that's what we're being told now. I'm just disagreeing that that's consistent with the way his powers and his inner Zanpakuto was represented before. At this point though, it's silly to debate. We just disagree with how Ichigo's inner soul/Zanpakuto was portrayed and what that means for the current storyline. Specifically:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v45/c411/10.html

I'm guessing next chapter will be a small snippet into whatever Bach was going to tell his troops, then hopefully back to Kenny :D. Though we honestly may not see Kenny again until the fighting starts.

For fuck sake, quit your patronizing. Here's the Manga page for the Zanpakuto being fused with the hand since quoting the Anime is a religious offense.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v45/c418/11.html

[Abandon]

we KNOW it's not consistent, and we've all called it as such. Every single one of us that are replying to you have repeatedly mentioned that it is a retcon. Again, I don't see the point you're trying to make.

[Alarial]

You're calling it inconsistent while simultaneously arguing for why it works. That's where I'm disagreeing. Either you buy that Kubo is just going down a different path and it doesn't make sense with previous story lines, or you can attempt to justify it with the "his Bachgetsu side was still holding his 'true' powers back the entire time!"

You just can't have it both ways. You're being patronizing and sophomoric when you attempt to justify the conflict via some hand waiving, then finish up with "but we all know it's a retcon."

And we/I had already made my piece with that retcon and were just commenting on Deadeye's misstatement about the Zanpakuto being connected to the arm.

[kuronosan]

We know he's going down a different path. That's why it's a retcon.

[Alarial]

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

[Abandon]

There's no sense in arguing that the change happened. Unless you're going to fly here to Japan and demand he change it to fit what you think makes sense, you need to get over it, accept the change for what it is, and move on.

That being said, I have no issue discussing the facts that have been presented to us. But if you're going to continue to call me sophomoric and patronizing, I will continue to smack you in the face with dick-flavored truth.

[Alarial]

What truth lol?

I'm only pointing out that we're NOT arguing. I agree it's a retcon. I'm calling you both patronizing because you're both jumping in here and trying to argue/add zero value by trying to justify the retcon (by saying Bachgetsu was actually still holding back his powers during the FGT training), while simultaneously proclaiming "it's just a retcon, accept it."

You're just arguing to argue at this point. The only reason I posted a response before was to correct/discuss the merging Zanpakuto comment with Deadeye. And the additional part of patronizing was Kuro jumping in to chastise me for quoting the Anime (even though it was in the Manga as well, as I cited).

Just give it a rest. Seriously.

[Charismatic]

Just give it a rest. Seriously.

Two-way street.

Anyway, whats being said here is that you are right about some things and wrong about others but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because it is what it is.
We can all accept it and move on or you guys can argue forever.

[Boyiee]

I'm pretty sure they're going to accept whatever it is and move on to wherever that is because this is getting obnoxious.

Stahp.

[Abandon]

NO U

[Serra]

I think the best answer is to believe it all was the Hogyoku -- Aizen states that it answers desires, and Ichigo stated that he sensed loneliness from Aizen when he crossed swords. Aizen wished to battle someone stronger than him, so the Hogyoku made Ichigo stronger as a result of his training.

Spoiler: show

I'm only 95% BSing this, but honestly, this is probably the best answer..

[Uzor]

So you're saying the hogyuoku is the polar opposite of Kenpachi?

[Abandon]

oh god