Hauteclaire and Aegis?

[Norelco]

Krandor, just curious as to what earring set you use as PLD/NIN.

[Garret]

Coming in a bit late in the discussion but did my best to read it all.

One point I think people didn't bring up regarding Aegis vs. Koenig. One of the major reasons Pld/War is often not superior to Pld/Nin is the amount of hate you lose from being hit, this basically cancels out the added hate you gain from provoke. Pld/Nin comes out on top so often because you can avoid so much damage and thus save yourself a lot of hate. Even as /Nin you are going to take damage though & the massive damage reduction of Aegis, both the -25% magic & the great blocking should easily make up for +3 enmity. I realize that's a bit of an aside as to what the original discussion was about.

In terms of Pld/Nin setups I think people are missing out on some of the potential new setups ToAU offers.

Xavier was talking about using an MDB set after he had been wearing enmity for a while. If you end up using 2 Brd's a lot I would say switch one for a Corsair.

Magus' Roll gives excellent MDB and if you are getting it from your Cor then you can maintain a solid enmity build at the same time. In addition you can try using a Blu/Whm in the tank party as well to buff the roll even more. A well geared Blu/Whm can pump up their Magic Fruit to be almost as good as a Cure V, but with a much lower MP cost & recast and they have other healing options as well.

I personally am missing a lot of gear needed for an ideal Enmity/Haste build and end up using a high Enmity/low Haste build. My timers could certainly be decently better but I prefer a relatively static build without equipment blinking where the additional enmity helps to hold hate although my shadows will be down on occasion.

Anyways, I highly recommend experimenting with Cor & Blu mixed into a tank party, can provide a lot of flexibility, especially when pairing them with other jobs.


Oh and Blackice, I still want your Haubert, it would look much better on me.

[Blackice]

Oh and Blackice, I still want your Haubert, it would look much better on me.

Are you awake yet? I certainly know this to be a false statement

[Norelco]

Anyways, I highly recommend experimenting with Cor & Blu mixed into a tank party, can provide a lot of flexibility, especially when pairing them with other jobs.

As a PLD and a COR, I've been curious about this combination. I don't think the officers in my linkshell are willing to give up an RDM, BRD, or WHM for a BLU.

Last week we did Ouryu and I was a COR in the tank party and it didn't even occur to me to play Magus' Roll because the PLD/NIN's wanted Evoker's/Choral.

Also, a question for PLD/NIN...do you equip shield? Does shield proc before shadows?

[Draxy]

Also, a question for PLD/NIN...do you equip shield? Does shield proc before shadows?

Yes and no in that order.

Yes, equip shield on most mobs for a few reasons.
a) enmity (I suppose this could be moot with dual Mac+1's but meh)
b) damage mitigation if shadows are down
c) shield update, block while recasting = successful cast
d) if you have an Aegis - derr

No, the order of things checked are parry, and evading, then blinks, then blocks (shadow mantle can proc on a block), then full damage (obviously shadow mantle can proc).

-Draxy

[Tekki]

yes u use a shield. Shield procs when shadows are down

[Sidanoir]

Any job with double march +haste spell and minimal haste gear is capable of keeping shadows up on just about anything....which kind of makes the haste gear slots trivial imho for the most part...especially on non Double Attacking/Triple Attacking mobs which you can land elegy/slow II on....then its just zzzzzzzzz....and if the mob doesn't have Utsusemi wiping aoes then its even more zzzzzz.....

And why the fuck would someone use PLD/WAR on Jorm over PLD/NIN cause he is easy .. lol that makes no sense to me..unless you like giving him TP on ground + HP back..

PLD/NINx2 or 3 + 1 NIN/DRK 2 BRD RDM is what we use for when we do use PLD/NIN..Hydra/Cerb/Khim type mobs...
I think BRD/BLM is the way to go on some mobs nowadays..as the BRD/WHM subjob doesn't offer as much as Troubadour Elemental Seal Elegy (for Cerb/Khim/Hydra)
Poor Asura Tiamat owned by gilsellers wow....

Still have yet to see Khim pop in NA time on my server apart from first time he was up sitting there....and if he did I wouldn't be too interested in killing it JUST for the sword even though we still use PLD/WAR for stuff.....it doesn't really need a boost to be effective ...

Anyways my random 2 cents for this thread..

And to the OP who likes to flame people....at least have a more solid argument backing you up ....you kinda shot yourself in the foot and made yourself look stupid , that is all

[Garret]

Anyways, I highly recommend experimenting with Cor & Blu mixed into a tank party, can provide a lot of flexibility, especially when pairing them with other jobs.

As a PLD and a COR, I've been curious about this combination. I don't think the officers in my linkshell are willing to give up an RDM, BRD, or WHM for a BLU.

Last week we did Ouryu and I was a COR in the tank party and it didn't even occur to me to play Magus' Roll because the PLD/NIN's wanted Evoker's/Choral.

Also, a question for PLD/NIN...do you equip shield? Does shield proc before shadows?

I think the Blu/Whm is much harder to sell, but on heavy magic mobs, Ultima for instance, the added MDB effect for Magus' Roll could help noticeably. I think it is one of the most underated Cor abilities, but it can be a godsend. A lot of potential there to aid with things like Inferno Blast, Hurricane Wing, etc. Granted many of those fights aren't difficult to begin with, but I think it is at least worth experimenting.


Lies Blackice, you know I'm the handsomer Galka but no I am not awake yet.

[Norelco]

I was thinking with an elemental resistance set + magic def gear + Magus' roll that it could be pretty helpful for Wyrms in flight.

[Fng]

think BRD/BLM is the way to go on some mobs nowadays..as the BRD/WHM subjob doesn't offer as much as Troubadour Elemental Seal Elegy (for Cerb/Khim/Hydra)

Paralyna > Elegy

Please continue with more PLD talk. I often spend many hours helping LS PLDs get buffers back, so we talk strats a lot.


Oh and do you have the crowd fest on your servers? Ours have the one JP shell that will gank anything as soon as it goes, yellow... so everyone is forced to basically stand on the toes and spam claim. (talking about PLD/NIN tanking w/ high lag factors)

[Credos]

But on a side note. /Nin for pld isn't used ALL the merry time. Menopausal elitists that would like to argue one set of gear is better than the other need to realize that it's a versatile game with many solutions to our myriad problems. Yes I hate you all. And whoever said Blackice was the best PLD on the server was really smoking alot of meth.

Does this mean that you won't play Plinko with me?

@Xavier, about how much does your MDB+ build go? I did a quick search at work and reasonably can see it getting up to +16 or so. Just wondering if I'm missing anything.

[Reigns]

I think BRD/BLM is the way to go on some mobs nowadays..as the BRD/WHM subjob doesn't offer as much as Troubadour Elemental Seal Elegy (for Cerb/Khim/Hydra))).....

With the high recast timers on Troubadour & ES there is no way BRD/BLM is better than /WHM (stoneskin, removing status effects, lolcureIII(s)).....

[Sidanoir]

I think BRD/BLM is the way to go on some mobs nowadays..as the BRD/WHM subjob doesn't offer as much as Troubadour Elemental Seal Elegy (for Cerb/Khim/Hydra))).....

With the high recast timers on Troubadour & ES there is no way BRD/BLM is better than /WHM (stoneskin, removing status effects, lolcureIII(s)).....

Troubadour elegy lasts a long time....at least 5 mins...so 2 bards thats 10 mins of elegy...3 bards 15 mins by then troubadour is back up..

Paralyna etc. while helpful is by no means necessary for something like Cerb
If anyone but your Tanks and the few melee you may have on him are getting hit by Ululation that implies your tanks are losing hate...cause you should never get hit by cerb aoe as a mage...and I think seeing as paralyna has near instant recast...and you probably have 2-3 tanks tops it only takes 2-3 paralynas to get the important ppl back up...you may lose 10 seconds of damage from melee assuming 100% para proc but the ease of tanking etc. that elegy offers is pretty nice

Paralyna > Elegy hrm...is that cause you dont have any WHMs or other jobs /WHM? Unless your BLMs if any go sub RDM for something like Cerb/Khim where they do such uber damage anyway right lol...
What other status cures are so useful? Cure 3 come on... lol

Khim no aoe will touch a mage except Fulmination..and if it gets off then your stunners fail or its stun immune...

So how is /BLM not viable/helpful for a bard on mobs that pretty much 100% resist elegy otherwise..when there lol Cure3s and paralyna are obviously going to make or break the fight..

Crowd fest abounds on my server...not so much for Cerb as like Fafnir...

[Reigns]

I think BRD/BLM is the way to go on some mobs nowadays..as the BRD/WHM subjob doesn't offer as much as Troubadour Elemental Seal Elegy (for Cerb/Khim/Hydra))).....

With the high recast timers on Troubadour & ES there is no way BRD/BLM is better than /WHM (stoneskin, removing status effects, lolcureIII(s)).....

Troubadour elegy lasts a long time....at least 5 mins...so 2 bards thats 10 mins of elegy...3 bards 15 mins by then troubadour is back up..

Paralyna etc. while helpful is by no means necessary for something like Cerb
If anyone but your Tanks and the few melee you may have on him are getting hit by Ululation that implies your tanks are losing hate...cause you should never get hit by cerb aoe as a mage...and I think seeing as paralyna has near instant recast...and you probably have 2-3 tanks tops it only takes 2-3 paralynas to get the important ppl back up...you may lose 10 seconds of damage from melee assuming 100% para proc but the ease of tanking etc. that elegy offers is pretty nice

Paralyna > Elegy hrm...is that cause you dont have any WHMs or other jobs /WHM? Unless your BLMs if any go sub RDM for something like Cerb/Khim where they do such uber damage anyway right lol...
What other status cures are so useful? Cure 3 come on... lol

Khim no aoe will touch a mage except Fulmination..and if it gets off then your stunners fail or its stun immune...

So how is /BLM not viable/helpful for a bard on mobs that pretty much 100% resist elegy otherwise..when there lol Cure3s and paralyna are obviously going to make or break the fight..

Crowd fest abounds on my server...not so much for Cerb as like Fafnir...

I guess you don't run in to sing songs on the tanks? ;X Also missed AOE's happen and with a /blm sub you become a mana sponge if not dead..... I don't think Elegy is THAT importiant so sacarfice all the things /whm have to offer.

[Sidanoir]

If you get hit with aoe on BRD and you have PLD/NIN they can cure you for hate...unless you think you are gonna get one shotted >.>

[Reigns]

If you get hit with aoe on BRD and you have PLD/NIN they can cure you for hate...unless you think you are gonna get one shotted >.>

PLDs have better things to do than heal the BRD. Especially if your running in and out or range...

[Fng]

In a perfect world BRD/BLM would be better.

When something goes wrong... (like it does most times) /WHM offers more assistance getting things back in order.. then /BLM...


Back to PLD please!

[Sidanoir]

I still remember the disbelief of BRD/NIN tanks....this is no where near as profound as a BRD tank and yet it seems to be dismissed like its not possible or isn't worth trying something different sometimes...although I suppose I am biased having 2 boxable BRDs at my disposal where I dont do much other than sing 2 songs + elegy..really dont make use of the subjob benefits

As far as PLD...

Coming from a LS that uses PLD/WAR on things still....I would say Aegis + Hautclaire + D ring would make a formiddable tank...as far as hate, I am sure PLD/NIN will win in the long run...but things that we PLD/WAR tank are usually damaged by SMNs and hate isn't lost to DDs but rather mages...seeing as how we have a gjallarhorn, PLDs dont need cures except in an oh shit situation...

Personally I think Haste gear is a waste for PLD/NIN if there is a good enmity piece or magic damage reduction/hp piece for that slot....UNLESS you have to work with just 1 BRD...or no haste...
In my experience haste + double march is more than adequate to blink tank something...although there is the issue of flash timer but you can always macro in haste gear for that or utsusemi if you really wanted to...but you shouldnt be visible in a walahra turban or something <.<!

[Kilik]

Which works better, magic defense bonus or -% magic dmg taken? And is there a cap on either like there is for -%phys dmg taken?

I was building in a macro set of -% magic dmg taken for my PLD. A bonecrafter in my LS was synthing the HQ merman/coral stuff for me. I think it came out to like -31% magic dmg taken and 4 or 6 magic defense bonus.

[aurik]

Which works better, magic defense bonus or -% magic dmg taken? And is there a cap on either like there is for -%phys dmg taken?

I was building in a macro set of -% magic dmg taken for my PLD. A bonecrafter in my LS was synthing the HQ merman/coral stuff for me. I think it came out to like -31% magic dmg taken and 4 or 6 magic defense bonus.

It depends on the situation for which one is more powerful. For most situations I think -%mdmg is better than mdb. There is a cap at 50%, and I believe shell contributes to this to a large degree.