Hauteclaire and Aegis?

[Tonko]

And then Niro is all, "Regen 3 will save you!"

And Alleya goes, "loln00b Cure V."

And all is well.

[Xavier]

At Xavier's post, I typically use Turban on Mobs where shadows going down can get me killed, like Tiamat, and if dual tanking (instead of 3 tanks) Cerberus.

My point is that at the gear setup I'm talking about, turban would give me a second off my ni timer while sacrificing 8 enmity.

Are people just not using PLD/NIN x3, BRDx2, RDM as a tank party? Replace a PLD/NIN with NIN/DRK on mobs that are stunable. Double ballad, double march, refresh, haste, auto-refresh = near limitless mp, haste a second away from the cap.

I don't see how anyone can argue that me losing 1 second on ni is somehow worth losing the +14 enmity over his setup, on top whatever advantage I have in magic defense, on top of the emergency gigantic physical damage reduction if shadows are dropped.

[Ryko]

We've done as little as 2 tanks before, sometimes it just comes up. Most of the time though it's WHM for bar spells RDM BRD Tank x3 though.

[RKenshin]

Typically our tank PTs only have one BRD, which would definitely be the difference between the setups. Actually I don't even remember the last time we had 2 BRDs in a tank PT.

Outside of stuff like Horrid Roar we've never had much trouble with hate though, so it's been working fine that way for us. Normally any extra BRD that shows up gets stuck with melees and/or mages, depending.

[Krandor]

At least in regards to my LS we usually don't have enough BRDs at a camps/events to spend 2 on the tank party, so Single Ballad/March for the tanks is what I'm normally adjusted too. I remember you having an argument about having bards with demetrios pertaining to PLD/NIN a few months back

Edit : lol @ the 3 replies saying the same thing

[Xavier]

At least in regards to my LS we usually don't have enough BRDs at a camps/events to spend 2 on the tank party, so Single Ballad/March for the tanks is what I'm normally adjusted too. I remember you having an argument about having bards with demetrios pertaining to PLD/NIN a few months back

Edit : lol @ the 3 replies saying the same thing

Any argument in suggesting then that so long as your LS actually has bards, our setup would produce a far more effective tanking situation?

We normally have 3-4 bards at any given event, with another 1-2 2boxable at any given time.

[Krandor]

Nothing too argue about it, did it at a Tiamat a few months ago and the hate control was superb. But in 90% of situations we find ourselves in single BRD + RDM works just fine.

[Lhexh]

I think the main difference is BtL only uses 1 BRD for the tank party so they only get BalladII and a single march so tanks need that extra haste gear to reach the 22 second Ni/Flash timers. If you can supply 2 BRDs to the tank party then you are right, going in a heavier enmity package with just homam haste is enought to reach the timers and overall is a stronger setup.

Personally I'm happy if I can get 15 people and a single BRD for things like Tiamat so it's nice having tanks that can cap haste themselves when need be.

[Xavier]

I mean no offense, but it sounds like you guys are struggling a bit with people? Maybe its just your server, I don't know. 15 people and a single bard showing up at a Tiamat on Bahamut is almost unthinkable.

We generally have a full alliance at Khimaira now within 10 minutes of it spawning, 2-3 bards, 3-5 smn, etc. as long as it doesn't spawn between 1-11 am.

[RKenshin]

We're always digging for members at events, and almost never have the luxury of having 2 or more BRDs present at events. Lucky if we even can get the one BRD for the tank PT half the time.

BRD is the last job we usually try to get at an HNM since most of the time we're fighting with 1-2 PTs worth of people (often not including 2 boxed players), so even though we have a lot of people with BRD leveled we'll have them come as a more important role like RDM or DD or tank, etc. So most of the time we'll just have one if anything.

Same basically applies for 2 boxing, any time we do we need a 2 boxed healer or 2 boxed TH more than a BRD.

[Ryko]

tbh dude short of a mixed haijin shell (I think BTL qualifies) you take what you can get and run with it. I find situations where we're running with less than 18 more common than situations where we run with 18+ just due to inconvenient pop times and shit. I think I can say with decetn certainty that we've had more Faf & Frens kills with just 1 bard than we've had kills with 2+ :/

[Xavier]

We generally 2box bards over other jobs because of how easy it is to hit a ballad macro and focus on your main job.

[Lhexh]

We kinda like it that way now, it's a bit more fun to do things in smaller numbers and aren't eager to invite new people to LS. I think I've added 1 member to the LS in the last 4 months.

[Blackice]

While I was in the shower this thread actually went somewhere! But yeah, Lhexh and Ruke summed it up, we only have 1 BRD per tank PT with BalladII/MarchII as the songs. So I reach it with gear myself instead. If we had 2 BRDs per tank PT, my setup would be pretty much identical to your's minus the Aegis. As for -magic dmg set, I have -26.8% in gear, Shell V is 23% I believe, so I'm basically reaching the cap on -magic taken w/o Aegis, in macro'd gear.

[Ryko]

Question though, what do you use on your head for PLD/NIN ice?

[RKenshin]

We end up having THF 2 boxed most often for TH, since we often lack that at events... And otherwise it's often a support role.

But yeah, BRD is like the easiest to 2box.. I remember a Tiamat just a week ago where I was tanking and playing BRD lol. Just play songs once a landing and once a flight, easy.

[Xavier]

While I was in the shower this thread actually went somewhere! But yeah, Lhexh and Ruke summed it up, we only have 1 BRD per tank PT with BalladII/MarchII as the songs. So I reach it with gear myself instead. If we had 2 BRDs per tank PT, my setup would be pretty much identical to your's minus the Aegis. As for -magic dmg set, I have -26.8% in gear, Shell V is 23% I believe, so I'm basically reaching the cap on -magic taken w/o Aegis, in macro'd gear.

Right, but I think its important to distinguish between a -magic dmg set and an enmity set with -magic damage.

I still maintain the +36 enmity while hitting the magic cap, not sure how you could keep the enmity while using magic gear w/o the shield.

[Krandor]

I can't really 100% speak for my LS about it since we just recruited like 3 new people this month, but personally I prefer the smaller groups, it makes things a bit more rewarding when the mob hits the floor

[Xavier]

I'm not exactly talking about zerging though, just having a full alliance.

We're not a gigantic linkshell either, and we generally kill most HNMs at under an alliance. I'm not suggesting simply having a lot of people to get things done, just having enough people with multiple 75 jobs for max flexibility. We're just never suffering for bards, I guess.

[Krandor]

Mob depending I honestly don't mind taking "extra" magic damage over the set you described. I think all of us involved in this discussion right nowalso have NIN @ 75 so we have a pretty solid grasp on the mechanics of blink tanking. For most of the mobs I'm typically fighting (admittly I haven't fought Khimaira, it's pretty heavily monopolize by 2 shells so far and it's not worth the effort imo to leave the LS out there when we could be doing other things), like Cerb, Tia, Proto-Ultima, Fafhogg, etc. I welcome Magic damage that's gonna go thru my blinks since it gives me a healthy chunk to cure for hate.

Obviously for big mobs or spells (say JoL or CB) I have a magic defense set.