Hauteclaire and Aegis?

[RKenshin]

I'm pretty sure he just macros it all back and forth? (he'll have to confirm that)

Like, I have a heavy amount of physical defense in one gear set and a heavy amount of magic defense in another gear set... But I don't wear either for normal tanking, just for when I'll take the damage. For the most part, any HNM where you're taking heavy damage of any type you can react fast enough to get gear on before you take the damage. Only minor exceptions would be things like Hurricane Wing, Breaths, etc, which don't do much damage anyway.

But yeah, people have different views on that.. Some don't like to blink, some don't mind it, some have healers that aren't accustomed to it, and some have healers that are used to it. So that all varies.

[Blackice]

Question though, what do you use on your head for PLD/NIN ice?

Turban, Bahamut Mask for enmity macro if needed, Koenig for when shadows go down and I switch to sword/shield gear to get ichi back up.

Edit: Ruke nailed it, I have 5 sets of gear I constantly switch back and forth on throughout the fight, <3 windower macros.

[Ryko]

Well I mean there's a scale in that sense, I dont think anyone here is implying that anyone else is zerging shit. I can just remember more situations where we're actually lucky to even have that single bard at shitty times than situations where we're running with more to spare. Personally if we have a second bard and an actual melee PT (fafhogg tia or cerb for example) I'd rather run with that second bard in in the melee PT than in the tank PT.

Question though, what do you use on your head for PLD/NIN ice?

Turban, Bahamut Mask for enmity macro if needed, Koenig for when shadows go down and I switch to sword/shield gear to get ichi back up.

kk just wondering.

[Krandor]

I'm not exactly talking about zerging though, just having a full alliance.

We're not a gigantic linkshell either, and we generally kill most HNMs at under an alliance. I'm not suggesting simply having a lot of people to get things done, just having enough people with multiple 75 jobs for max flexibility. We're just never suffering for bards, I guess.

We have I think.... 5 or 6 "active" BRDs, most of them also having RDM or WHM leveled. Idk maybe in contrast to your LS, alot of us work full time jobs so attendance at different parts of the day can be fairly variable.

We're looking at around 700 currency to finished Relic Horn though, so once that's done in the next week or so I'm sure we'll be adjusting our tanking setups

[RKenshin]

Basically the same thing we do if a second BRD shows up (@Ryko), melees get dibs! Which is great since I'm going to more events on SAM lately.

Now if only we could get a second BRD to show more often.

[Xavier]

I welcome Magic damage that's gonna go thru my blinks since it gives me a healthy chunk to cure for hate.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about -needing- to take the excess damage to hold hate.

I've never bothered with a fire resist suit for Tiamat since being able to Cure IV seems to hold hate better than not taking any damage at all.

But I am refering to the idea of a "ceiling" on holding hate, and the fact that once you reach that ceiling, the only way to possible maintain that hate is to minimize the damage you take. Turning a 500 dmg magic attack into a 350 dmg magic attack still lets me Cure IV myself for maximum hate, but it also means I've just taken less dmg and probably lost less hate in the process.

I'm pretty sure he just macros it all back and forth? (he'll have to confirm that)

Obviously. I'm wondering more along the lines of does reducing a 1000 magic attack to 500 in +10 (or w/e) enmity mean you lose a lot more hate than reducing a 1000 magic attack to 500 in +36 enmity, etc.

[Ryko]

For the longest while I volunteered to tank early morning fafs as WAR just for the sake of getting the only bard lol >_> we're pretty notorious for being a goofily melee heavy HNMLS though.

[Krandor]

What they said about a 2nd Brd, rather toss to the melees

[Xavier]

Generally speaking we're dealing with 3 rdm, 3 brds, 1-2 whms as support at most events. DMG is usually something like 1-2 thf, 1-2 rng, 2-4 BLM (replaced by SMN where needed, most of those BLMs have SMN lvled).

2 BRDs to the tank party, 1 BRD to the melee PT, while the BLMs just get rdm refresh.

[Blackice]

Heading to work now, I'll be back for this discussion in about 20 minutes, lol.

[RKenshin]

I'm wondering more along the lines of does reducing a 1000 magic attack to 500 in +10 (or w/e) enmity mean you lose a lot more hate than reducing a 1000 magic attack to 500 in +36 enmity, etc.

Actually I've never really looked into that. As far as I know I've always saw enmity as something that will increase the amount of hate generated and decrease how fast the hate is lost for any action that you perform.

But, whether or not the amount of enmity you're wearing at the time you take damage effects your hate loss is something I've actually never thought or heard of until just now.

Personally I don't think it would effect it that much (if at all)? Most of my magic/physical defense type gear has just about 0 enmity minus what I have for merits, yet one thing I do notice is my hate will usually be noticeably better than my co-tank's hate after taking less damage even if the difference is small. But, again it's not something I've ever looked for, so it's hard to say.

[Krandor]

Looking at the SS off our Ridill on Monday, and this is probably par for the course for most events where melees are useful (Kings, Protos, and the like)... WARx2 THF SAM BRD WHM | BLMx5 RDM | PLD/NINx2 NIN/WAR RDM BRD WHM

[Lhexh]

Generally speaking we're dealing with 3 rdm, 3 brds, 1-2 whms as support at most events. DMG is usually something like 1-2 thf, 1-2 rng, 2-4 BLM (replaced by SMN where needed, most of those BLMs have SMN lvled).

2 BRDs to the tank party, 1 BRD to the melee PT, while the BLMs just get rdm refresh.

Wow, that is a nice support group to have to a standard event. On average for us, something like Tiamat involves 2-3 tanks + rdm+whm+brd tank party, a RDM/DRK hopefully to stun ( or BLM who's hasted by tank party WHM ), 2 SMN and 3-5 BLM + THF. Anything over top of that is a welcome bonus to speed up the fight.

[threevo]

Mob depending I honestly don't mind taking "extra" magic damage over the set you described. I think all of us involved in this discussion right nowalso have NIN @ 75 so we have a pretty solid grasp on the mechanics of blink tanking. For most of the mobs I'm typically fighting (admittly I haven't fought Khimaira, it's pretty heavily monopolize by 2 shells so far and it's not worth the effort imo to leave the LS out there when we could be doing other things), like Cerb, Tia, Proto-Ultima, Fafhogg, etc. I welcome Magic damage that's gonna go thru my blinks since it gives me a healthy chunk to cure for hate.

Obviously for big mobs or spells (say JoL or CB) I have a magic defense set.

ok i tanked khamaira for the first time the other day and was really dumbfounded at the best gear setup to wear for it. My crits in enmity and -dmg% gear on ninja were around 50dmg, jin was doing 300 or so, but i tossed on Estaff towards the end because there is no way to avoid getting hit when it drops yur shadows and your terrored....It was only my first time tanking it so meh maybe it will get easier, was co tanking with a pld/nin and it was fine, but i really cant seem to find a plan to avoid taking 600dmg + 150-200dmg hit from it everytime it uses dreadstorm, thunderstrike is managable because i usually had blink up. Its frustrating, but the mob itself isnt very strong and doesnt seem to have much hp and 0 regen....so whatever

[Xavier]

We typically look like PLD/NIN x3 (NIN/DRK replacing one on stunned mobs), BRDx2, RDM | BLMx5 RDM | RNG RNG THF THF BRD WHM, with slight variations to it.

What I'm really getting at is the "ideal" tanking situation though, which is what we always use for the HNMs that we can plan on killing, and aren't based on the 21-24hr window, etc. Ouryu / Bahamut / etc.

I'm not saying that we never just use one bard for the tanks, but the "best" setup I've seen in what I described with 2 bards and that gear.

[RKenshin]

Wish we could say the same sometimes... lol

Not that I don't have fun and enjoy small number fights, but gathering at something like Tiamat with 5 people and waiting an hour as people trickle in isn't always fun either! It usually works out fine but it would be great to have more people around and at events in general as well. D:

But yeah, NA prime time we can get an alliance or more pretty easily, but otherwise we're lucky to get 2 PTs.

[Krandor]

lol Tiamat...

I think 11 out of the last 12 tiamats have been killed by gilsellers on my server now, and the one that wasn't was a mass D/C that wiped them. They have a mule there 24/7 and they have 40+ in zone within 10 minutes of pop.

Sad as it is killing Tiamat on Asura now is only possible if gilsellers wipe.

Ok but /end derail.

Question though Xavier, why RNGs specifically?

[Xavier]

Not that I don't have fun and enjoy small number fights, but gathering at something like Tiamat with 5 people and waiting an hour as people trickle in isn't always fun either!

And therein lies the rub.

We don't really have that kind of time with killing most HNMs in the game. Tiamat / Cerb / Khimaira, etc. are all claimed generally within 15-20 minutes of spawning.

3 Khimaira ago we lost the claim when it spawned because a rival LS (FI) claimed it with a SAM/THF who held it for 30 seconds, while a RDM/NIN and WHM came back from AFK to proceed holding it for 10 minutes while their members all gathered at the spot.

We typically have 15-30 people online most nights, and its pretty much required or we'd never get the chance to claim + kill anything in the game.

We haven't actually touched Tiamat in a while now, since that same LS generally has 6 people "camping" him whenever the window is open.

Question though Xavier, why RNGs specifically?

Because Sonomaa will ban us all from the forums if we don't.

[Lhexh]

Yea it's the same thing on our server, once Tiamat window opens there are usually 3-4 LS with people camping it out and its normally claimed within 15 minutes of pop by one of those 3-4 Linkshells. Ruk was alluding to the fact if we want to compete for these NMs we need to sometimes claim with a party or just barely more and survive until more people logon/arrive.

It's the major annoyance of keeping the LS a small active core, the fight's are fun as hell with small numbers, but painfully long as hell when the numbers are just a bit too small.

[Rentwokay]

I hate to bring things back to darker times after the thread headed in such a positive direction, but I'm curious.

Isn't the cardinal rule of upgrading a relic only to upgrade if you can afford it? I would think, if a person has to sell all their other gear to purchase currency, they wouldn't be a prime candidate for such an item.

And, to the OP who is probably still lurking around licking his wounds, I'm personally getting sick of seeing BTL bashing wherever I look. People hate BTL because they manage to accomplish what they cannot, while numerous other large shells on Seraph (not naming any names because we're all thinking of the same people) run around with jerks in their ranks, bots at the forefront, and attitudes that make grandmother's cry; in other words, who are much better deserving of the negative press.

Not in BTL. Don't want to be in BTL. But when I read these forums, I hate having to wade through so much bullshit to get to something worthwhile.

Obligatory smiley: