Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: elemtal resits     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1

    elemtal resits

    ive done a few resist builds before but im curious to know about how much resit gear actualy helps reduce magic dmg.

    In essence, does elemtal resist gear directly reduce the dmg taken for magic or does it simply increse your resist rate?

    Im thinking its the former: for example, you get +25 fire resitance and maybe get like -1% damage taken from that element.

  2. #2

    Resist gear only increases resist rate, an unresisted spell will still do the same damage as if you were not wearing any.

    PS: You dont have a cousin named Rambus, do you?

  3. #3

    thx for the confrimation, im just gonna go for -magic dmg taken and MDB gear. im still toying with the idea of using Kirin's Pole on JoL though. (going pld/rdm)


    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii

    PS: You dont have a cousin named Rambus, do you?
    lol not that i know of

  4. #4

    Yea MDB and Magic dmg taken would be best for JoL prolly. It wouldn't be possible for you to carry around an entire resist set for each element JoL uses haha, but for Jorm/Tiamat/Ouryu ice/fire/earth resist sets are godly. If you can get 300+ resist you can full resist like 90+% of the time.

  5. #5
    Mr. Bananagrabber
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    32,041
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Considering how many elements JoL nukes with, trying to cover all of them with resist gear would be impossible with only 60 inventory slots.

    90% of the hate in the fight from my experience anyways is just spam curing yourself after Ga spells hit you, resisting his nukes would be counterintuitive to this process

  6. #6
    Subduer of the Squenix
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    490
    BG Level
    4

    Quote Originally Posted by Seditedi
    Yea MDB and Magic dmg taken would be best for JoL prolly. It wouldn't be possible for you to carry around an entire resist set for each element JoL uses haha, but for Jorm/Tiamat/Ouryu ice/fire/earth resist sets are godly. If you can get 300+ resist you can full resist like 90+% of the time.
    Yes, ~300+ is the magic resist number, and it is in fact a resist because it's not consistant, whereas -magic damage taken is not variable. This means that for a proper elemental resist build, you need at least 120 resist from gear alone [120(gear)+ 120(+)(WHM bar spell, merited with AF2 and enhancing gear)+ 60 (Carol with Crumhorn +1) to effectively resist elemental based attacks from say, CoP wyrms.

    Here is an example of a resist with shellra V, and a combination fire resist and -magic damage set.
    http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...damagecopy.jpg
    Here's another example (note that mages have stoneskin up):
    http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...fernoBlast.jpg
    For JoL, go with a general -magic damage build, since you have to deal with all elements. The way my LS does JoL is to use PLD/NIN (and sometimes BRD/NIN) with a barspell-buffed WHM doing barspells every time the element changes.
    Unfortunately I don't have any screenshots of JoL damage, but -magic damage builds make a huge difference.
    As far as using Kirin's pole, I don't see a good reason not to try it unless you have an Aegis!
    I don't want to sound like a broken record here but just remember that pretty much nothing in this game is grounbreaking in and of itself, but it has to be stacked with as much other gear as possible that does the same thing in order to be reliably effective. GL on JoL! ^^

  7. #7
    Mr. Bananagrabber
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    32,041
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    I used basically this for JoL, though swap out the Weapon and Neckpiece for non Fire resist based gear on JoL, this is a Bahamut geared setup.

    http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31...gicDefense.jpg

  8. #8
    Subduer of the Squenix
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    490
    BG Level
    4

    Quote Originally Posted by Krandor
    Considering how many elements JoL nukes with, trying to cover all of them with resist gear would be impossible with only 60 inventory slots.

    90% of the hate in the fight from my experience anyways is just spam curing yourself after Ga spells hit you, resisting his nukes would be counterintuitive to this process
    Agreed, but what's nuts is that the first time we ever used a tank party that was (first time HNM) BRD/NIN,(decked out ) PLD/NIN x2, WHM, RDM, BRD... the BRD/NIN just totally owned the PLDs on hate but got eaten a couple times by bad -gas. Later we tried it with a NIN/BRD and JoL was on her ~90% of the time.. and our tactics included spanking JoL with a rotation of 4-5 Kraken DRKs. The DRKs pulled hate sometimes but it was astounding how well NIN/BRD held hate.

    We've never tried PLD/WHM or PLD/RDM against JoL, kinda curious how well that would work. Seems to me like just a bigger MP pool?

  9. #9
    Mr. Bananagrabber
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    32,041
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    I just did PLD/NIN cause I have no WHM or RDM leveled yet <_< NIN sub just really isn't useful though, I mostly stuck just using it to blink out random single target spells and spam some ichi debuffs when it wasn't doing damage.

    Both WHM and RDM would give you a bigger MP pool and some additional hate tools to work with. Could spam some of the lower cost debuffs (Blind, Silence, Bind, etc, depending on sub) and gain a bit of MDB

  10. #10

    well i think were gonna have pld/rdm(me), pld/whm and rdm/brd i think.

    here's part of a "guide" i wrote earlier today on my LS forums. all this is based on tanking JoL 1 time a a pld/war ( O.o) and other experiences as playing pld/rdm. I don't know a whole lot about the fight but this is the best i can come up with, let me know if i screwed anything up, i really want this fight to go smooth.

    ---
    Which brings me to holding hate.
    PLD/RDM brings alot to the table, spamming flash, bind and sleep can generate a very respectable amount of hate. These 3 spells give the most hate:mp used ratio. Dispell generates more hate but is more expensive mp wise, save it to get hate off another tank. Between these spells you can put up stonskin as much as possible, Phalanx should always be up, but i believe blink is less neccesary due to its long cast time and being instantly wiped away by -ga spells. RDM's have haste which also is a decent hate spike. healing yourselves and your co-tanks will probably be your main staple of hate though. If subing /WHM, curaga is your absolute staple. haveing all tanks standing close is essential. also /whm can put barspells on the whole pt. /whm also gives alittle bit more mp.

    Bar spells are your friends. I sugest making a macro for each 1 of the elements except light and dark.

    Best tank pt setup would probably be

    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    COR-rolls magus and evokers (magus roll is excellent for magic dmg reduction, will allow tanks to wear enemity gear)
    BLU- healing breeze & stoneskin (makes magus roll stronger while in the pt)(im not sure if blu can stun JoL or not)
    SMN-main heal, blink rotation, aoe haste with Garuda (makes evokers roll stonger while in the pt)

    All three tanks will stand semi close together (within a few steps of each other) to keep ga spells from being single targeted on 1 tank, this will minimize the enemity loss of the tank that gets targeted and takes massive dmg. COR BLU and SMN will stay behind tanks and out of range of -ga spells.

    More tradition setup will be

    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    brd-double haste song
    brd/rdm-double mp song/refresh
    whm-main heal/haste

  11. #11
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,158
    BG Level
    6

    Quote Originally Posted by Faxanadu
    thx for the confrimation, im just gonna go for -magic dmg taken and MDB gear. im still toying with the idea of using Kirin's Pole on JoL though. (going pld/rdm)
    lmao

  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Erza
    Quote Originally Posted by Faxanadu
    thx for the confrimation, im just gonna go for -magic dmg taken and MDB gear. im still toying with the idea of using Kirin's Pole on JoL though. (going pld/rdm)
    lmao
    u can't just "lmao" without giving an input. Im assuming you sugest mac +1 and keonig shield, which i will bring in case i have hate problems. Kirins poll gives 10mnd which gives me about 26 more hp on stoneskin, plus 20 mp and 20 hp. the rest of the stats are trivial yes. If nothing else i'll macro it on for stoneskin

  13. #13
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,442
    BG Level
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by Faxanadu
    Quote Originally Posted by Erza
    Quote Originally Posted by Faxanadu
    thx for the confrimation, im just gonna go for -magic dmg taken and MDB gear. im still toying with the idea of using Kirin's Pole on JoL though. (going pld/rdm)
    lmao
    u can't just "lmao" without giving an input. Im assuming you sugest mac +1 and keonig shield, which i will bring in case i have hate problems. Kirins poll gives 10mnd which gives me about 26 more hp on stoneskin, plus 20 mp and 20 hp. the rest of the stats are trivial yes. If nothing else i'll macro it on for stoneskin
    no dude thats fuckin lmao

  14. #14

    ok i read that 3 times and i finally got it lol. guess i didn't see the bold print at first.

  15. #15
    Subduer of the Squenix
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    490
    BG Level
    4

    Quote Originally Posted by Faxanadu
    well i think were gonna have pld/rdm(me), pld/whm and rdm/brd i think.

    here's part of a "guide" i wrote earlier today on my LS forums. all this is based on tanking JoL 1 time a a pld/war ( O.o) and other experiences as playing pld/rdm. I don't know a whole lot about the fight but this is the best i can come up with, let me know if i screwed anything up, i really want this fight to go smooth.

    ---
    Which brings me to holding hate.
    PLD/RDM brings alot to the table, spamming flash, bind and sleep can generate a very respectable amount of hate. These 3 spells give the most hate:mp used ratio. Dispell generates more hate but is more expensive mp wise, save it to get hate off another tank. Between these spells you can put up stonskin as much as possible, Phalanx should always be up, but i believe blink is less neccesary due to its long cast time and being instantly wiped away by -ga spells. RDM's have haste which also is a decent hate spike. healing yourselves and your co-tanks will probably be your main staple of hate though. If subing /WHM, curaga is your absolute staple. haveing all tanks standing close is essential. also /whm can put barspells on the whole pt. /whm also gives alittle bit more mp.

    Bar spells are your friends. I sugest making a macro for each 1 of the elements except light and dark.

    Best tank pt setup would probably be

    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    COR-rolls magus and evokers (magus roll is excellent for magic dmg reduction, will allow tanks to wear enemity gear)
    BLU- healing breeze & stoneskin (makes magus roll stronger while in the pt)(im not sure if blu can stun JoL or not)
    SMN-main heal, blink rotation, aoe haste with Garuda (makes evokers roll stonger while in the pt)

    All three tanks will stand semi close together (within a few steps of each other) to keep ga spells from being single targeted on 1 tank, this will minimize the enemity loss of the tank that gets targeted and takes massive dmg. COR BLU and SMN will stay behind tanks and out of range of -ga spells.

    More tradition setup will be

    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    tank-hate
    brd-double haste song
    brd/rdm-double mp song/refresh
    whm-main heal/haste
    Hmmm.
    I'd have to say that's an unorthodox and pretty risky strategy.
    Here's the main issues I have:
    You mention the critical nature of barspells and yet you severly gimp them by not having a WHM (121 max barspell w/o enhancing magic merits) or even a RDM/WHM (101 *i think* max barspell w/o enhancing magic merits) in your tank party. Not having a WHM in party also means that you don't get Shellra V. You'll also be very happy if that WHM had Devotion. Out pt WHM is so 2005!

    Your first stetup doesn't have a RDM, that would scare me as I've seen MP get drained quickly when things get rough during JoL.

    Magus Roll is NOT going to be enough to substantially reduce magic damage to the point where it's going to justify taking up a spot for someone who could provide more useful spells such as a RDM or a WHM. It's one of those things that could make a difference if all your tanks have stacked magic def gear but aside from that I don't personally see it contributing that much to the party.

    SMNs are quite gimped as main healers, it's cruel to make them do it. Also, hastega is not very MP efficient considering it doesn't last as long as regular haste. Not to mention that if you have a SMN casting party buffs, that takes a substantial amount of time the they won't be able to main heal in.

    I know nothing about having BLU in a tank party so I can't comment on that.

    Here's how we (usually) do it:
    Tank x3 (chose your tank preference, NIN/WAR can't hold hate for shit here on the off chance you didn't know) If you have PLD/NIN*WHM*RDM tanks than you are correct in that your main hate will come from healing after -ga's etc. As I stated before, anything BRD or /BRD will own hate on JoL.
    WHM/SMN
    RDM/WHM
    BRD/WHM

    3 tanks stand on one side of JoL. Tank Party mages stand 90deg. counterclockwise to them, this makes them close enough to cure, buff, etc but not close enough to get hit by -gas (WHM and BRD will run up to tanks as needed for bar spells and songs). 180deg. from tanks are the damage dealers. These consist of (for us) SMNs, BLMs, SAMs and Kraken DRKs (need spare WHMs to spam cures on these guys to make it work). The ONLY thing tanks need to do against JoL is hold hate so that you don't see a sea (pun intended!) of dead tarutaru because someone pulled hate and wiped out all your DD in a single -ga.

    If I interpreted your post correctly, your ls doesn't have very much experience with JoL. Personally I'd stray away from an unusual tank party setup until you guys know how to beat him with a more traditional party. It's very risky imo to potentially waste weeks of sea farming on something that has never been tested before.

    Unlike CoP wyrms, JoL gets easier as you beat him down. Getting past the first 5-10% is the hardest part.

    and btw, if you're going for haste setup to help you keep hate on your PLD then use Capricorn's Staff. If you have Chivalry, you're not going to want to change weapons and lose TP so gogo Cap. Staff but! there are better people to ask about that than I. Oh yeah, some PLDs I know are trying out Numinous Shield+1 just for elemental resists if you want to go sword/shield. But i repeat, there are people who know a hell of a lot more about that than I do lol.

    Hope this helps some~ gl!

  16. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylphet
    Hmmm.
    I'd have to say that's an unorthodox and pretty risky strategy.
    Here's the main issues I have:
    You mention the critical nature of barspells and yet you severly gimp them by not having a WHM (121 max barspell w/o enhancing magic merits) or even a RDM/WHM (101 *i think* max barspell w/o enhancing magic merits) in your tank party. Not having a WHM in party also means that you don't get Shellra V. You'll also be very happy if that WHM had Devotion. Out pt WHM is so 2005!

    Your first stetup doesn't have a RDM, that would scare me as I've seen MP get drained quickly when things get rough during JoL.

    Magus Roll is NOT going to be enough to substantially reduce magic damage to the point where it's going to justify taking up a spot for someone who could provide more useful spells such as a RDM or a WHM. It's one of those things that could make a difference if all your tanks have stacked magic def gear but aside from that I don't personally see it contributing that much to the party.

    SMNs are quite gimped as main healers, it's cruel to make them do it. Also, hastega is not very MP efficient considering it doesn't last as long as regular haste. Not to mention that if you have a SMN casting party buffs, that takes a substantial amount of time the they won't be able to main heal in.

    I know nothing about having BLU in a tank party so I can't comment on that.

    Here's how we (usually) do it:
    Tank x3 (chose your tank preference, NIN/WAR can't hold hate for shit here on the off chance you didn't know) If you have PLD/NIN*WHM*RDM tanks than you are correct in that your main hate will come from healing after -ga's etc. As I stated before, anything BRD or /BRD will own hate on JoL.
    WHM/SMN
    RDM/WHM
    BRD/WHM

    3 tanks stand on one side of JoL. Tank Party mages stand 90deg. counterclockwise to them, this makes them close enough to cure, buff, etc but not close enough to get hit by -gas (WHM and BRD will run up to tanks as needed for bar spells and songs). 180deg. from tanks are the damage dealers. These consist of (for us) SMNs, BLMs, SAMs and Kraken DRKs (need spare WHMs to spam cures on these guys to make it work). The ONLY thing tanks need to do against JoL is hold hate so that you don't see a sea (pun intended!) of dead tarutaru because someone pulled hate and wiped out all your DD in a single -ga.

    If I interpreted your post correctly, your ls doesn't have very much experience with JoL. Personally I'd stray away from an unusual tank party setup until you guys know how to beat him with a more traditional party. It's very risky imo to potentially waste weeks of sea farming on something that has never been tested before.

    Unlike CoP wyrms, JoL gets easier as you beat him down. Getting past the first 5-10% is the hardest part.

    and btw, if you're going for haste setup to help you keep hate on your PLD then use Capricorn's Staff. If you have Chivalry, you're not going to want to change weapons and lose TP so gogo Cap. Staff but! there are better people to ask about that than I. Oh yeah, some PLDs I know are trying out Numinous Shield+1 just for elemental resists if you want to go sword/shield. But i repeat, there are people who know a hell of a lot more about that than I do lol.

    Hope this helps some~ gl!
    This is helping alot, might quote u on my forums if u don't mind.

    well i don't think we have a COR coming anyways, but i see your point. i was just thinking we kill 2 birds with 1 stone (magus roll for mdb and evokers roll for refresh)
    Also SMN is mainly in the pt to haste and strengthen evokers rolls. I thought thier haste was good since the smn job update, but im no smn. i was also thinking with all the refresh we'd be getting, the tanks could main heal themselves.
    I have thought about using capricorn staff, but with my other pieces of haste gear it would only bring me to about 14% haste un buffed. not sure if that is gonna make a huge difference.

    I think im just gonna come with a full inventory and see what works best

  17. #17
    Subduer of the Squenix
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    490
    BG Level
    4

    np~ glad I could help some.

    I'm all for finding ways to incorporate the new jobs into end game but if you are still relatively new to killing something like JoL I just think it's best to play it safe since getting a new love set can take a lot of time.

    Once you are confident in your ability to kill it then you can experiment more. Just approach it realistically. You know best what you and your linkshell are capable of. It can be a long fight so just have patience.

  18. #18

    I think in this thread and in the previous thread that the OP made, there was too much of an emphasis on survival, and not enough really on what best keeps hate. In the last year we've used a different tank PT probably every time we've popped it with our two main tanks evolving from 2xPLD/WAR to PLD/WAR+PLD/WHM, to PLD/WHM+RDM/WAR to PLD/WHM+RDM/BRD to today when we fought with PLD/BRD+RDM/BRD. None of them ever really had a problem 'surviving' JoL, with the exception of the stuff that will kill anyone--Astral flow >> 3x Aerial Collision, getting Primal Drill or Concussive Oscillation due to poor positioning, etc. But if you're just standing there eating spells for the most part, you shouldn't die at all unless people run out of MP, which shouldn't happen either with all of the refresh options afforded us these days. The question after a certain point should be less what will keep you alive, and more what keeps hate better. In the progression of tank PT setups we've used has each time decreased significantly the chance that a DRK or /DRK will pull hate, to the point where it doesn't really happen anymore, except in circumstances I listed above like Astral Flow.

    I think it's interesting that you have only 3 people standing together eating AoE, the difference in base damage from AoE spells between 6 people and 3 people is significant (82%, which would be 1.64 the total damage except that the other people getting hit are mages with more MDB and better stoneskin so probably more like 1.4 damage), but that allows either a PLD/WHM to retain hate better through Curaga (since less damage taken by them and more people to cure) or it's more who get hit with mazurka for BRD or /BRD tanks (my understanding is mazurka hate is a function of the # of PT members it hits; am I wrong?)

    Also, I don't know much about PLD gear options, but I don't personally see what's so funny about a Kirin's Pole; is there some other weapon or weapon/shield combo that is significantly better?

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag