[OFFICIAL] Hillary Clinton running for 2008 President!

[Septimus]

Late reply (late classes) but I'd like to add a few things. Firstly, cheating on someone and staying with someone who cheated on you are two different things. It's pretty apparent that Hillary stayed with Bill for the obvious political position she was in (hello there first lady). Do you really expect me to believe that any woman with a rational mind is going to stay with a man who cheated on her with multiple women? (Lewinsky and Jones case.)

Her excuse? That it was a and I quote a "vast right-wing conspiracy" for political gain by the republicans. Maybe I'm an asshole, but if my wife was out giving blowjobs to the next door neighbor I'd tell her to GTFO.

It reminds me of that song called High School Never Ends by Bowling for Soup honestly.

You're right though, I had no clue about Giuliani's affairs because it wasn't so blown out of proportion like the Lewinski 'scandal' was (seriously who cares that Bill got some head). Despite all of this, I personally don't care about the personal lives of politicians. I care about how they run our god damn country. I respect Giuliani as a leader and how he handled the 9/11 crisis in NYC. I would want someone with that kind of leadership to run for presidency. Hillary hasn't done a god damn thing that has made me go "Wow I really wish she would run for president." She's certainly not a leader and is just your average run-of-the-mill phoney politician.

Point being, Hillary has bad PR whereas Giuliani has (relatively) good PR. The first woman president is ground-breaking history for the United States and it sure as hell should go to someone with a little more respect from the public than friggen Hillary Clinton.

When is cheating not cheating?

When you have an open relationship.

Hilary knew all about Bill's wandering ways, and she was obviously OK with it otherwise they wouldn't have stayed married while he was the governor of Arkansas. But how can you say that staying with your husband who wanders is a bad thing, then say you don't care about the personal lives of politicians three paragraphs later? The man brought his trollop into Gracie Mansion and told his kids to lie to their mother (wife #2) about it. But that's fine because he announced at a press conference that he was dumping his second wife before he bothered to tell her in person. That's OK because you don't care about the private lives of politicians, unless they are the ones being cheated on...

Do you see your double standard?

[Damen]

Late reply (late classes) but I'd like to add a few things. Firstly, cheating on someone and staying with someone who cheated on you are two different things. It's pretty apparent that Hillary stayed with Bill for the obvious political position she was in (hello there first lady). Do you really expect me to believe that any woman with a rational mind is going to stay with a man who cheated on her with multiple women? (Lewinsky and Jones case.)

Her excuse? That it was a and I quote a "vast right-wing conspiracy" for political gain by the republicans. Maybe I'm an asshole, but if my wife was out giving blowjobs to the next door neighbor I'd tell her to GTFO.

It reminds me of that song called High School Never Ends by Bowling for Soup honestly.

You're right though, I had no clue about Giuliani's affairs because it wasn't so blown out of proportion like the Lewinski 'scandal' was (seriously who cares that Bill got some head). Despite all of this, I personally don't care about the personal lives of politicians. I care about how they run our god damn country. I respect Giuliani as a leader and how he handled the 9/11 crisis in NYC. I would want someone with that kind of leadership to run for presidency. Hillary hasn't done a god damn thing that has made me go "Wow I really wish she would run for president." She's certainly not a leader and is just your average run-of-the-mill phoney politician.

Point being, Hillary has bad PR whereas Giuliani has (relatively) good PR. The first woman president is ground-breaking history for the United States and it sure as hell should go to someone with a little more respect from the public than friggen Hillary Clinton.

When is cheating not cheating?

When you have an open relationship.

Hilary knew all about Bill's wandering ways, and she was obviously OK with it otherwise they wouldn't have stayed married while he was the governor of Arkansas. But how can you say that staying with your husband who wanders is a bad thing, then say you don't care about the personal lives of politicians three paragraphs later? The man brought his trollop into Gracie Mansion and told his kids to lie to their mother (wife #2) about it. But that's fine because he announced at a press conference that he was dumping his second wife before he bothered to tell her in person. That's OK because you don't care about the private lives of politicians, unless they are the ones being cheated on...

Do you see your double standard?

I like Giuliani because of how he handled 9/11. That's the only reason. Do I like the fact that he cheated on his wives? No. Do I like the fact that Hillary stayed with Bill? No. Does Hillary strike me as a sound leader? No. Does Giuliani have a decent reputation with the public? Yes. Does Hillary have a decent reputation with the public? No.

I don't want the first woman of the United States history to go to a woman who half of the United States doesn't even like. I certainly don't see people saying they are going to move to Canada if Giuliani wins >_>

[Kenai]

Late reply (late classes) but I'd like to add a few things. Firstly, cheating on someone and staying with someone who cheated on you are two different things. It's pretty apparent that Hillary stayed with Bill for the obvious political position she was in (hello there first lady). Do you really expect me to believe that any woman with a rational mind is going to stay with a man who cheated on her with multiple women? (Lewinsky and Jones case.)

Her excuse? That it was a and I quote a "vast right-wing conspiracy" for political gain by the republicans. Maybe I'm an asshole, but if my wife was out giving blowjobs to the next door neighbor I'd tell her to GTFO.

It reminds me of that song called High School Never Ends by Bowling for Soup honestly.

You're right though, I had no clue about Giuliani's affairs because it wasn't so blown out of proportion like the Lewinski 'scandal' was (seriously who cares that Bill got some head). Despite all of this, I personally don't care about the personal lives of politicians. I care about how they run our god damn country. I respect Giuliani as a leader and how he handled the 9/11 crisis in NYC. I would want someone with that kind of leadership to run for presidency. Hillary hasn't done a god damn thing that has made me go "Wow I really wish she would run for president." She's certainly not a leader and is just your average run-of-the-mill phoney politician.

Point being, Hillary has bad PR whereas Giuliani has (relatively) good PR. The first woman president is ground-breaking history for the United States and it sure as hell should go to someone with a little more respect from the public than friggen Hillary Clinton.

When is cheating not cheating?

When you have an open relationship.

Hilary knew all about Bill's wandering ways, and she was obviously OK with it otherwise they wouldn't have stayed married while he was the governor of Arkansas. But how can you say that staying with your husband who wanders is a bad thing, then say you don't care about the personal lives of politicians three paragraphs later? The man brought his trollop into Gracie Mansion and told his kids to lie to their mother (wife #2) about it. But that's fine because he announced at a press conference that he was dumping his second wife before he bothered to tell her in person. That's OK because you don't care about the private lives of politicians, unless they are the ones being cheated on...

Do you see your double standard?

I like Giuliani because of how he handled 9/11. That's the only reason. Do I like the fact that he cheated on his wives? No. Do I like the fact that Hillary stayed with Bill? No. Does Hillary strike me as a sound leader? No. Does Giuliani have a decent reputation with the public? Yes. Does Hillary have a decent reputation with the public? No.

I don't want the first woman of the United States history to go to a woman who half of the United States doesn't even like. I certainly don't see people saying they are going to move to Canada if Giuliani wins >_>

I wouldn't move to Canada either way, but I don't understand how Giuliani's 9/11 history sways you as much as it does, considering the rest of his history in general, (like Septimus said before, pre-9/11 he really wasn't very popular at all, and there were reasons for that I won't go into now, even though I didn't know about the cheating stuff. I don't like to judge people based on any ONE particular situation, unless that's all there is to go on. Actually, what does he have going for him besides 9/11 that makes you think of him as a sound leader? I'm very curious). Being a First Lady and a senator and having a pretty sucessful overall 2 terms (the big exception being the Monica thing) holds a lot more weight and responsibilty than you seem to realize, not to mention her name, if nothing else, is pretty well known among the average citizen. Half of the U.S. automatically isn't going to like a canidate based on blind political platorm loyalty alone, and I never was one to simply buy into public opinion, I like to see at least a few things for myself.

[Neosutra]

I like Giuliani because of how he handled 9/11. That's the only reason. Do I like the fact that he cheated on his wives? No. Do I like the fact that Hillary stayed with Bill? No. Does Hillary strike me as a sound leader? No. Does Giuliani have a decent reputation with the public? Yes. Does Hillary have a decent reputation with the public? No.

I don't want the first woman of the United States history to go to a woman who half of the United States doesn't even like. I certainly don't see people saying they are going to move to Canada if Giuliani wins >_>

1. He didnt do anything special after 9/11 that wasnt his job.
Thank the firefighters, police men, and army volunteers for that.

2. Your actually downing hilary for having a stronger marriage then you could? Not everyone is so insecure that they are threatened by some releived tension. Take your neo-conservative "sex is evil" bullshit elsewhere and stop using it as an excuse to hate a canidate to whom you bias just for being a democrat.

3. Your assertation that she doesnt have background of being a good leader is blatently wrong as she has been in these positions for years now and has done a good job.

As for your last statement:

I don't want the first woman of the United States history to go to a woman who half of the United States doesn't even like

Really? Because it doesnt matter if she was a woman or a man, or a gay trans-sexual, if she is republican or democrat, odds are: half the country wont like them.

Not to mention 70% of the country hates bush right now, perhaps we should kick him out? (Or assasinate his ass.).

I wonder if people like you realize they are talking out of their asses, or if you just let Rush Limbaugh tell you what to think. I guess its easier that way.

[Damen]

Ok, so we all agree that Guiliani and Clinton are both scumbags. Does the first woman president of the US have to be a scumbag? Or at least someone without as much bad PR as Clinton?

Watch your accusations though, I'm no Republican (nor Democratic) lover. If anyone besides Clinton wins the democratic nomination I'll very much be leaning towards Democrats this election.

[Kyreth]

Unfortunately, even if people did know, they wouldn't remember, because he was "America's Mayor".

Oh please, the majority of people in New York hated him as of 9-10.

What a difference a day makes.

Which sorta makes a point here- we may hate someone as a raging bastard before the shit hits the fan, but if they do their job and do it well, all is (rightly) forgiven.

Call Hilary a hormonal bitch if you like. I think she'd still do the job right, and better than the pansy we have for a President whose "legacy" is a war mostly started for self-penis enhancement. If the War on Iraq was a videogame, Bush would be the turd everyone hated cause he bought his account pre-leveled, RMT'ed for all his l33t gear, and still plays the game like a 3-year old on horse tranquilizers.

[Kenai]

Ok, so we all agree that Guiliani and Clinton are both scumbags. Does the first woman president of the US have to be a scumbag? Or at least someone without as much bad PR as Clinton?

Watch your accusations though, I'm no Republican (nor Democratic) lover. If anyone besides Clinton wins the democratic nomination I'll very much be leaning towards Democrats this election.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure all political leaders are thought of as scumbags in some way, shape, or form. How many "Don't trust a politician" jokes have you heard in your lifetime? They were around before anyone around here was born, I promise.

Edit:

Unfortunately, even if people did know, they wouldn't remember, because he was "America's Mayor".

Oh please, the majority of people in New York hated him as of 9-10.

What a difference a day makes.

Which sorta makes a point here- we may hate someone as a raging bastard before the shit hits the fan, but if they do their job and do it well, all is (rightly) forgiven.

Call Hilary a hormonal bitch if you like. I think she'd still do the job right, and better than the pansy we have for a President whose "legacy" is a war mostly started for self-penis enhancement. If the War on Iraq was a videogame, Bush would be the turd everyone hated cause he bought his account pre-leveled, RMT'ed for all his l33t gear, and still plays the game like a 3-year old on horse tranquilizers.

Fucking LOL. Good analogy if I ever saw one.

[Neosutra]

Ok, so we all agree that Guiliani and Clinton are both scumbags. Does the first woman president of the US have to be a scumbag? Or at least someone without as much bad PR as Clinton?

Watch your accusations though, I'm no Republican (nor Democratic) lover. If anyone besides Clinton wins the democratic nomination I'll very much be leaning towards Democrats this election.

Ya, sorry about that, i know its below the belt to call anyone a repub..

Anyways, "we all agree that Guiliani and clinton are both scumbags" isnt quite right.

I think:

We all agree that Guilliani is a scum bag.

And we are arguing about clintion.

Some of us think shes good, some think she is a scumbag.

I just havent heard any evidence for her being a scumbag other then having a strong marriage.

Did she kill anyone? Do anything illegal? Go against her word? Looking for some reasons to hate her like some of you seem to.

[Damen]

Ok, so we all agree that Guiliani and Clinton are both scumbags. Does the first woman president of the US have to be a scumbag? Or at least someone without as much bad PR as Clinton?

Watch your accusations though, I'm no Republican (nor Democratic) lover. If anyone besides Clinton wins the democratic nomination I'll very much be leaning towards Democrats this election.

Ya, sorry about that, i know its below the belt to call anyone a repub..

Anyways, "we all agree that Guiliani and clinton are both scumbags" isnt quite right.

I think:

We all agree that Guilliani is a scum bag.

And we are arguing about clintion.

Some of us think shes good, some think she is a scumbag.

I just havent heard any evidence for her being a scumbag other then having a strong marriage.

Did she kill anyone? Do anything illegal? Go against her word? Looking for some reasons to hate her like some of you seem to.

I'll have to admit I've sorta been arguing for the sakes of arguing >.> After reading this thread my opinion of her has changed a bit, and I can't really come back with any good reason for not voting for her.

The only thing is like Kyreth said, most people view her as a "hormonal bitch." At least that's my skewed perception of how the public sees her.

[Sadler]

Maybe I am missing something.... but are some of you guys writing her off because of what her partner did at the time?

GO AMERICA! GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION! Or at least in this case... lets be bias!

The *only* bad thing I have ever heard about Hilary is regarding the "games are destroying our kids" comment.

But if you think about it... for the weak minded it is causing alot of damage. In order to protect the millions you have to do enough to stop the few....

[Damen]

The *only* bad thing I have ever heard about Hilary is regarding the "games are destroying our kids" comment.

FFXI has hurt my health more than GTA has lol.

[Septimus]

Unfortunately, even if people did know, they wouldn't remember, because he was "America's Mayor".

Oh please, the majority of people in New York hated him as of 9-10.

What a difference a day makes.

Which sorta makes a point here- we may hate someone as a raging bastard before the shit hits the fan, but if they do their job and do it well, all is (rightly) forgiven.

Do you remember the show that the creators of South Park made back in 2001 called That's my Bush!? The actor Timothy Bottoms portrayed the president in that show in various wacky situations, it was canceled shortly before 9/11. Fast forward several years to the "docudrama" DC 9/11 where Timothy Bottoms played the president again. While watching 5 minutes of it and promptly turning the channel, I just kept thinking "what an apt analogy."

The point is, 9/11 made a lot of people ignore a lot of things (like we need proof and a plan before we start a war), that doesn't mean that people did their jobs well.

[Jeryhn]

Overall, I wouldn't mind voting for Hillary, and the reason why: because of the fact she seems like a crazy bitch.

Think about it for a sec. We're soon to lose a crazy Republican and its entirely likely that Americans will punish the party similarly to how they punished them in the 2006 Congressional elections, by removing the Republicans from power.

Let's say Hillary wins, and because of her narrow viewpoints, shit happens. Rockstar games are banned, Red Bull is banned and adultery is outlawed as a reason for grounds for divorce (I'm being facetious by the way).

I'm hoping that maybe if Americans experience how crazy both sides of the party spectrum can be, they'll finally buckle down and start seriously considering candidates that bring the best of both parties to the White House in the actual interests of the American public. "Hot button" issues won't be so hot button anymore, because Americans could start reacting to them with common-fucking-sense. What the USA really needs right now isn't a President who's going to fix the mistakes of the last, they need a kind of shock therapy treatment so they become fully aware that neither party is right for them because the middle ground is what's going to keep this country going, not choosing a ship and sinking with it.

Or maybe I'm just being overly optimistic.

[TsingTao]

Maybe I am missing something.... but are some of you guys writing her off because of what her partner did at the time?

GO AMERICA! GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION! Or at least in this case... lets be bias!

The *only* bad thing I have ever heard about Hilary is regarding the "games are destroying our kids" comment.

But if you think about it... for the weak minded it is causing alot of damage. In order to protect the millions you have to do enough to stop the few....

People have such short memories. The whole Whitewater investigation was reason enough not to trust Bill & Hillary....they've been shady rednecks hiding under a slick veneer since long before Bill took office.

Go do a little research. Hillary's ex law partner conveniently blowing his brains out before talking to the press (and the ensuing hiding of documents and legal stalling/bullshit) had plenty to do with Hillary.

They found quite a number of people guilty of doing Bad Things regarding Whitewater, including the man that replaced Slick Willie as Govenor of Arkansas. The Clintons got off scott free though...and even pardoned a few of their partners in crime shortly before leaving office.

Shall we go back and look at several incidents involving highly classified information being leaked to the Chinese and the Clinton's questionable source of some campaign funds? How about we look at who else Bill pardoned before leaving office?

[Jeryhn]

People have such short memories. The whole Whitewater investigation was reason enough not to trust Bill & Hillary....they've been shady rednecks hiding under a slick veneer since long before Bill took office.

Go do a little research. Hillary's ex law partner conveniently blowing his brains out before talking to the press (and the ensuing hiding of documents and legal stalling/bullshit) had plenty to do with Hillary.

They found quite a number of people guilty of doing Bad Things regarding Whitewater, including the man that replaced Slick Willie as Govenor of Arkansas. The Clintons got off scott free though...and even pardoned a few of their partners in crime shortly before leaving office.

Shall we go back and look at several incidents involving highly classified information being leaked to the Chinese and the Clinton's questionable source of some campaign funds? How about we look at who else Bill pardoned before leaving office?

Sources?

[Devek]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... ll_Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clint ... ontroversy

People shouldn't have to source well known information you can google in 5 seconds

[Kenai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... ll_Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clint ... ontroversy

People shouldn't have to source well known information you can google in 5 seconds

That is some pretty shady stuff, but I would like a bit more than *just* wiki info. I'll look around at some point I guess...

[Jeryhn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... ll_Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clint ... ontroversy

People shouldn't have to source well known information you can google in 5 seconds

I'm lazy and have many other threads to look at.

I saw this and that was pretty much it:

Kenneth Starr's successor, Robert Ray, released a report in September of 2000 that stated "This office determined that the evidence was insufficient to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that either President or Mrs. Clinton knowingly participated in any criminal conduct."

[TsingTao]

It's all out there Kenai. It's just not horrible enough for most people to remember after 8 years of GW.

Edit: LOL @ that. The Clintons and their legan team spent almost a year obstructing the investigation. When Hillary's partner "committed suicide" documents were whisked away to the White House, never to be seen again. Of course they couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Other potential witnesses dying during the investigative process also helped that whole "reasonable doubt" thing just a bit.

Here's a whole slew of people related in one way or another to the Clinton's that aren't around any more. Feel free to do a little research; a number of them were involved in Whitewater. Ron Brown and James McDougal being the biggest players.

[Kyreth]

And when you notice how much shit the Republicans flung at Clinton and Clinton, it's not a surprise something smelled funny.

Go go Republicans. A decades-long legacy of Presidents getting some in the White House and you decide to come down on Slick Willie.

(And of course, the joys of conspiracy theory. While you're at it on the whole suicide thing, find out who shot JFK and how Reagan knew nothing of Iran-Contra.)