Guillotine double-attacks (Ruke read this!)

[aurik]

Found this post trolling around on KI

I've had around 11 or so 7-hit now, but still no 8-hit. Numbers definitely justify the double attacks though..
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1777/lolguillqr0.jpg

Can Guillotine really double-attack more than once? h2h and dual-weild WS being able to also DA on the offhand aside, no other WS has this property that I'm aware of.

Someone on that thread also put up some math that says an astonishing 10% of drk/war+brutal guillos should be 6 hits or greater. So it should be easily testable.

[VZX]

not a ruke...
but is this related?

[Baha]

Found this post trolling around on KI

Someone on that thread also put up some math that says an astonishing 10% of drk/war+brutal guillos should be 6 hits or greater. So it should be easily testable.

I think that "someone" was Madawc, if I saw the same thread you did. D:

[careswww]

pretty sure it can, doesn't happen too often though, or mainly because I just use lolDRK to whore KC or ridill

[Blackice]

Guillo isn't the only 2h WS that can double DA, I've had it happen with both Raging Rush and Steel Cyclone, both the damage numbers and TP return to support it.

[Kirschy]

I've gotten a bunch of 6-hit guillotines before. As far as I recall I've never gotten a 7 or 8 hit before... I was under the impression each hit could double attack for the cap of 8hit on WS. I can't realli say much for the math on drk/war + brutal for DA guillotines... but in practice for me it's 5-hit guillo about 10% of the time. (6-hits probably happening around 2%.)

[Eaglestrike]

It would make sense if this was some form of ninja boost to 2H weapons by not capping it at one DA per ws. As a thief and being a thf/war main for most of my exping career I never saw more than a single DA or single TA per, but then again as a thf it would be hard to distinguish between double DA and single TA procs on ws.

[Orph]

I've definatly had the tp return of multiple double atacks and the damage was higher than normal. So i would say yes, it can DA multile times.

[Starr]

I've double attacked twice on Sturmwind and Skewer both more than once.

[Khamsin]

So if double DA or TA is possible on WS, has anyone noticed it happening with Rampage or Raging Fists? Or does this only happen with 2handed weapons?

If so, I'd guess this wasn't common knowledge because people rarely use 2handed weapons. lol

Also, I haven't personally noticed with my Fortitude Axe, but can virtue weapons contribute its own DA into a WS (since normal DA and virtue DA stacks on regular hits)?

[VZX]

So if double DA or TA is possible on WS, has anyone noticed it happening with Rampage or Raging Fists? Or does this only happen with 2handed weapons?

If you read the link I refered above...
and if Eaglestrike's saying is true, the hypothesis is simply : multihit WS can have 2 job traits occuring when performed:
- double DA
- DA+TA
- double TA
in addition to single DA/TA

[Alastaire]

Also, I haven't personally noticed with my Fortitude Axe, but can virtue weapons contribute its own DA into a WS (since normal DA and virtue DA stacks on regular hits)?

Weapons with multi-hit traits do not proc on WS.

[Orph]

I'm pretty sure virtue weapons can proc on ws. I'm not positive and havent used my fortitude axe in a long time, but i remember losing virtue stones on weapon skills.

[Alastaire]

I'm pretty sure virtue weapons can proc on ws. I'm not positive and havent used my fortitude axe in a long time, but i remember losing virtue stones on weapon skills.

I could be wrong then, was just basing it off experience with Joyeuse.

[Khamsin]

I'm pretty sure virtue weapons can proc on ws. I'm not positive and havent used my fortitude axe in a long time, but i remember losing virtue stones on weapon skills.

I could be wrong then, was just basing it off experience with Joyeuse.

What makes virtue weapons different is that your DA trait will stack with the virtue DA to get three hits with Fortitude Axe. This doesn't happen with Joyeuse or other non-virtue multihit weapons.

[Chupunpupun]

Guillo isn't the only 2h WS that can double DA, I've had it happen with both Raging Rush and Steel Cyclone, both the damage numbers and TP return to support it.

Steel Cyclone being a one hit WS, how do you double DA on it? Double attack on a double attack??

[RKenshin]

This discussion kind of goes back a long time, originally there was a thread on the DRK forum on the topic of improving Guillotine damage around a year ago. I ended up debating that I thought it was impossible to DA more than once with any 1h weapon, and the discussion came down to the fact that if every swing of Guillotine had a 15% chance to DA (only possible way you could DA 2-4 times) then your chance of DAing once would be about 48%.

I don't remember the exact math that was done or numbers that resulted, but I used that fact as evidence to support my argument. Because well, just about all DRKs there agreed they didn't DA that often. But, later some DRKs did a few tests on TW mobs and their DA rates came out to around 40%, which when you factor in the accuracy cap supports that every swing does have a chance to DA.

But yeah, after that discussion and some testing myself as well as results of others I saw, I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Each swing of a WS seems to have a chance to DA. Since then I've also noticed a lot of 6 and 7 hit Guillotines that have the TP returns and the damage to support it. It actually happens pretty often as long as my accuracy as high. Same with Raging Rush.

[Khamsin]

Guillo isn't the only 2h WS that can double DA, I've had it happen with both Raging Rush and Steel Cyclone, both the damage numbers and TP return to support it.

Steel Cyclone being a one hit WS, how do you double DA on it? Double attack on a double attack??

Unless he's a GA-using DRK knight and did it with Homam body on, and it was really a Triple Attack. Or it was with Fortitude Axe, and normal DA really does stack with virtue DA on WS.

[RKenshin]

I've never had SC double attack more than once and I used to use it religously for almost everything out of exp, certain that double attacks can't double attack.

[VZX]

But yeah, after that discussion and some testing myself as well as results of others I saw, I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Each swing of a WS seems to have a chance to DA. Since then I've also noticed a lot of 6 and 7 hit Guillotines that have the TP returns and the damage to support it. It actually happens pretty often as long as my accuracy as high. Same with Raging Rush.

It's actually hard to look the evidence by the number. The most concrete evidence to see whether multiple DA/TA proc on WS or not is to see the TP bar as soon as the WS unleashed