Princess Bards

[Intense]

mnk/nin getting min/march and using sushi/no food.... 57 doesn't sound too horrible. Also need to consider what debuffs were being applied, etc.

Dont forget to take into consideration the direction of the wind!

[solsovly]

Since I've quit doing HNMs I've tried out a bunch of 'pickup' parties on various jobs and can say that there is an almost inexplicably wide gap in the performance of melees. The performance difference between 'the absolute best' items which cost 10-30 mil and the next step down, are measurable but not at the 50% level.

I know that Dragoons and beastmasters can actually do very well relative to other high-end DDs. However, they need just as much high-end gear to do it. In both cases, as the player starts to gear up, the relative amount of damage of the pet goes way down (less so for beastmasters with beast affinity & high-end jugs). Most well geared dragoons do about eight times the damage of their wyverns, but still need to add in that extra wyvern damage to beat high-end warriors, monks and ninjas.

I'ld imagine the same is true for puppetmasters. At the final stages of their gear, they should start doing a lot more damage relative to their puppets.

As a BST with full Beast Affinity + AF gloves using a standard Funguar pet, I still do about 4-5 times the damage of my jugpet. The more evasive the mob, the worse my pet will do. While I can just swap out haste for acc, my pet is pretty much stuck with what he has.

I have no problem admitting that BST gets outdamaged in merit parties by other equally equipped DD jobs. But the perception of the gap of performance is really blown out of proportion. The comparison has more to do with the player and the player's equipment/merits and the situation. With the large majority of melees being pretty well average anyways, I'd rather invite someone I knew was competent or atleast know that they have the appropriate gear. It's depressing watching watching some shitty Warrior in STR rings eating sushi get picked over my BST sitting in a bunch of white boxes, merited rotting in whitegate till the next LS event.

If you are doing a pickup and just inviting a random person, do people not invite by "reputation" or atleast check their gear? I guess if you are doing it completely blind it'd be safer to invite the job with the greatest DD potential. I'd have no problem kicking someone with gimp gear out and waiting for another DD, there's always atleast 10 waiting.

[Toth]

Still, it's obvious we are comparing apples (MNK/WAR with a relic + food) to ornages (MNK/NIN with destroyers + no food).

edit: also you said 1 bard but what jobs are the other two party members?

[TsingTao]

There's really no excuse for not carrying a couple stacks of cheap food. Even if all you're doing is popping a 5k/stack Mithkabob every time yours gets removed.

[aurik]

Still, it's obvious we are comparing apples (MNK/WAR with a relic + food) to ornages (MNK/NIN with destroyers + no food).

edit: also you said 1 bard but what jobs are the other two party members?

Other 2 members were rdms.

57 per hit is pathetic. I wouldn't be harping on him if he was doing 70, 75, it's not like I require someone to be breaking 90 average. The thf was doing only 42% of the per-hit damage Wafik does. Relic or no relic, that's amazingly low.

You can also look at the WS data; I nearly average the same as your monk's high. If that doesn't raise the "wtf" flag, I don't know what does.

[draxyl]

Sols, I've tried to invite you in the past...but you never want to come play bard

It's hard to merit on any other job than bard for me too, even if I do get to play a DD job often the bard(s) piss me off how they play and I end up wishing I would have just come bard in the first place.

[Bakthi]

Clearly a bard with Gjallarhorn would insist that all the melees have Relic weapons too.

Not sure what he'ld demand of his/her mages though.

The knowledge of how to use Regen correctly. It's about as common.

[Elesirdur]

Someone explain to me the mentality of a red mage that refuses to party with a paladin. Unlike some jobs, PLD is joined at the hip to RDM, barring mediocre substitutes for supplying the refresh such as bard and corsair. I can understand not wanting to main heal, but what is there beyond that? Bonus points for not including parade gorget, sanction refresh, or auto-refresh in your logic.

I really don't understand this behavior either. RDM is just designed to go along with PLD and because of it's targeted spells it can more easily single out the PLD from the melees than a Bard or Corsair can. If you can't keep up a 4-man Refresh cycle (and how often do you actually find PLD+Rdm+Healer+Nuker parties these days anyways?) then you can just stfu and gtfo - enjoy Refreshing 5 BLMs then >_>

[Shuemue]

Last time I was at Greater Colibri camp on MNK/NIN, I was eating sushi and my average punch was 58.4 -.-

Perhaps I should have been eating meat, idk.

[aurik]

sushi monks are a crime against humanity.

[Shuemue]

Next time I go there I'll be sure to try meat. I've got into the habit of eating sushi because of north camp in thickets. Even with a disgusting amount of acc gear, eating meat isn't as good there. Until recently I didn't have a parser so I was unable to test things myself.

[Medivac]

sushi + melee = gimp
meat +melee = pimp

this thread turned into a good topic of brds being bitchy, into plds venting about horror stories and a guy trying to defend pup. 1st off. yea brds are gonna bitch, hearing those songs play all day would make you /wrist, 2nd plds hold hate better so DD can go crazy. so a average pld/nin and nin/war will not be too noticible. 3rd if pup is so great why defend it so much, it should defend itself if anyone cared about a gimp melee + pet doing damage drg's wouldnt get flamed

[Beckwin]

yeah aurik's 74% accuracy is real pimp.

[Krandor]

Have you xped there before? They're fairly evasive and unless you plan on paying alot of money for your food, you'd be chomping mithkabobs. The mobs are so weak that it doesn't really affect the chains losing out on some accuracy.

Capped Katana Merits, Acc+47 (counting Dex) and I was hitting at 70% accuracy. Wafik was wearing in the neighborhood of +58 or so accuracy and still sitting at 77%ish. 2x BRD there with a Madrigal thrown it makes it alot easier, but in that party Wafik and Aurik both wanted to /WAR so we needed more healing.

But seriously though, if a MNK is hitting as much per punch as I do per Katana hit, there's something off there.

[Beckwin]

But seriously though, if a MNK is hitting as much per punch as I do per Katana hit, there's something off there.

yeah, what's off is you having berserk and meat.

Yes, I've xp'd there. Took my drk/war there the other night. Eating meat was gross tbh. I had up to... +60? acc equipped and it just wasn't worth it. No scythe merits. Going full acc drops me from 17 to 8 percent haste, and the damage per hit increase was not worth the loss of speed and accuracy at all. Not to mention Guillo isn't that impressive unless you're regularly connecting 4+ hits. I'm not sure just kabobs were enough to hit the next pdif plateau with march/min, but w/e. Acc% was in the shitter. I just ate squid sushi and it worked great. Brought a couple stacks and was fine; about 12-13k a stack on Remora.

If relic owners with lvl 100 crafts wanna sub warrior and bitch about other melees doing less per hit and wanna bitch about sushi being too expensive... fuck, thats just mind blowing.

[aurik]

I wasn't bitching about sushi being too expensive, I said it is the mark of a failure of a monk.

Assuming that Shuemue's 58 dmg average is "good", you'd have to have a hit-rate of ~122% to match my per-swing damage. Take off the approximate 10% bonus to reflect the fact that not everyone has Spharai, and we're still talking about ~110% hit rate. Too bad acc is capped at 95%, if you even hit that cap with sushi there.

[Krandor]

I can't speak for Wafik and Aurik but I'm not a relic owner and I'd be bitching about food costs there if I was eating sushi.

At least for them personally it has less to do with sushi costs and more to do with their preference for Meat over Sushi. Especially in Wafik's case the difference is incredibly noticeable, having a single hit Weaponskill with 100% accuracy (assuming he has TA or SA up obviously).

Pre Relic Aurik would still be beating me by 4-5% most parses while using meat, and myself using Sushi, and I could top or match basically anyone in my LS on my NIN (aside from our Ridill WARs or main MNKs obviously..)

[Beckwin]

Are you accounting for number of WS?

Not to mention increase in DoT from haste gear.

I didn't save the parse, but I think my net acc (including being on meat part of the time) was around 88ish%. No weapon merits. Tping in sushi in about... +38 acc.

[aurik]

More WS that average half as much damage, you mean?

[Beckwin]

Yeah, just meat doubles your WS damage :/ If the guy was subbing war and eating sushi, he'd have more attack and a greater chances for DA to cover a miss (not to mention increase in DoT).

Either way, there's a thread for sushi v. meat. But based on Toth saying the mnk in that pt had good gear, and assuming that Shuemue has good gear and reported similar numbers as mnk/nin on sushi at that camp, I am going to say that calling them "shit melees" is a bit ludicrous, especially considering that you were: a) subbing warrior and b) eating meat for buffed per-hits even though the arguable efficiency of meat at that camp.