Princess Bards

[Toth]

I still say that Aurik's fantastic critical rate and critical hits reaching over 400 is going to be create horribly skewed average hit rates. However, it is indeed another topic for another day.

Anyway, I will agree that the ls mate THF in my party performed lackluster but he just hit 75 a month ago. He is just not as well-geared or meritted as a long time THF (He has only a few pieces of hecatomb for example). Any LS mate I party with is expected to have good gear and I would not post parsers if I was not confident they were an adequate representative of what their job can do when played properly. Otherwise I wouldn't invite them Prince PUP for the wi...loss?

[aurik]

Yeah, just meat doubles your WS damage :/ If the guy was subbing war and eating sushi, he'd have more attack and a greater chances for DA to cover a miss (not to mention increase in DoT).

Either way, there's a thread for sushi v. meat. But based on Toth saying the mnk in that pt had good gear, and assuming that Shuemue has good gear and reported similar numbers as mnk/nin on sushi at that camp, I am going to say that calling them "shit melees" is a bit ludicrous, especially considering that you were: a) subbing warrior and b) eating meat for buffed per-hits even though the arguable efficiency of meat at that camp.

How do you explain the thf doing 30 per-hand? Most of the mobs you fight there are weak to piercing even. How do you explain the monk inexplicably averaging 400 on a weaponskill that is extremely reliable (especially with high acc) for 600+ dmg?

It's more than just the really weak per-hand dmg that tips me off that these people are not as good as Toth thinks.

[aurik]

I still say that Aurik's fantastic critical rate and critical hits reaching over 400 is going to be create horribly skewed average hit rates. However, it is indeed another topic for another day.

Anyway, I will agree that the THF in my party performed lackluster but he is in my LS and just hit 75 a month ago. He is just not as well geared or meritted as a long time THF. As I mentioned before, I no longer do pick up parties and any LS mate I party with is expected to have good gear. Otherwise I wouldn't invite them. Prince PUP for the wi...lose?

Relic crit rate is really really low. Only 1-2% of my attacks will triple up like that, which means they have an extremely small effect on the overall average.

[Toth]

I understand what you are saying Aurik. There just has to be more explantion though to the difference. Were the two rdms debuffing the mob perhaps? In my parser, the support is a BRD and WHM. The WHM wasn't debuffing at all.

[NynJa]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7.../meripo122.jpg

Not to derail this thread but point out the sub-par melee in this recent parser of mine on a Greater Colibri camp: Vytiss (MNK/NIN), Toth and Serenade (PUP/WAR), Ligerzero (NIN/WAR), or Zervilhaa (THF/NIN). A decently geared PUP may surprise you. Bard just makes the master that much better.

Same camp, 1 bard.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9...07parseqh6.png

Your monk averages 57 dmg per hit. I average 96.
Your thf averages 30 dmg per hit. Wafik 71.
Your nin averages 46 dmg per hit. Krandor 57.

I submit that all the melee are sub-par in your parse.

Aurik, you're forgetting that those triple dmg procs affect your average...
Even if its a dismal proc rate, that will still have a decent impact on your average.

Blah allready posted.

[Krandor]

I understand what you are saying Aurik. There just has to be more explantion though to the difference. Were the two rdms debuffing the mob perhaps? In my parser, the support is a BRD and WHM. The WHM wasn't debuffing at all.

The damage the RDMs caused in the parser is from Dia, I don't remember if they diaed every single mob though.

[Beckwin]

Well uh, Wafik's dagger is gonna be 6ish damage higher than the other guy's mainhand and he's swinging with up to... a shitton more atk for any given swing as a thf/war eating meat? Not to mention that an offhand like say, Sirocco Kukri, is gonna drag per-hit average down compared to someone single-wielding a friggin' Mandau.

I'm not saying the mnk and the thf and Shuemue are excellent melees at all- I don't know enough details and neither do you to really pass judgement. I'm just saying your criteria for calling them shit is kind of wacked out (per-hits and WS averages not very close to relic melees subbing warrior and eating meat).

[aurik]

Really, really small impact on average damage. Impact is probably less than 3-4 on average.

[Krandor]

I said on the last page but I'll say it again.

A Destroyers MNK having the same damage per hit as my NIN using Senji/Unji is kind of blah <.<

[aurik]

The WHM wasn't debuffing at all.

So:
-the thf is fresh 75
-the mnk isn't using food
-the whm isn't using dia2

This parse can't seriously be regarded as support of anything.

[Toth]

So now we have Dia II (possible III), Relic weapons, /WAR subs, and meat as the answers to why your damage is so much higher. I know at least what to recommend to my ls mates the next time we go to the camp so this discussion certainly has been fruitful.

[Beckwin]

mnk/nin getting min/march and using sushi/no food.... 57 doesn't sound too horrible. Also need to consider what debuffs were being applied, etc.

Dont forget to take into consideration the direction of the wind!

I understand what you are saying Aurik. There just has to be more explantion though to the difference. Were the two rdms debuffing the mob perhaps? In my parser, the support is a BRD and WHM. The WHM wasn't debuffing at all.

whoa shit I was right.

just doing some rough guessing... rdms combined for about 1500 damage. Divide that by 180 fights... little over 8 dmg a fight. Looks like there was DiaII on most mobs, compared to none on Toth's mobs.

So Krandor, yes, you were doing more per swing than a destroyers mnk/nin.... while you had zerk, atk food, and diaII on your mobs.

[Toth]

The WHM wasn't debuffing at all.

So:
-the thf is fresh 75
-the mnk isn't using food
-the whm isn't using dia2

This parse can't seriously be regarded as support of anything.

All my parser shows is a solid (11-12k/hr) merit party at the Greater Colibri camp where my PUP excelled. As we have discussed, a few changes here and there and everyone will improve, with exp/hr hopefully increasing as well. I am eager now to impart some of these tactics to my party when we go back and I will be sure to parse the difference and post the results. It should be an interesting comparision.

[Krandor]

So Krandor, yes, you were doing more per swing than a destroyers mnk/nin.... while you had zerk, atk food, and diaII on your mobs.

Stop being so damn logical, I'm trying to feel important about myself damnit.

[aurik]

So Toth's parse proves that in a mediocre-at-best party (no dia and no attack food = wtf) a pup and his pet can keep up with the sushi monk and totally unmeritted thf.

I'll keep that in mind and prioritize inviting pups the next time I'm forming a horribly dysfunctional party.

[Vistani]

I've pt'd with Shuemue's mnk quite a bit at the greater colibri camp, as well as at the north thickets camp, and he generally does noticeably more damage using sushi than meat. I am fairly biased to begin with, pretty much always using sushi, but calling a sushi eating melee straight up gimp is kinda unreasonable.

[Beckwin]

1. using atk food isn't the be-all-end-all of good xp parties

2. Toth's damage should increase proportionally with the damage of the other melees with dia on the mob. moot point.

[aurik]

You must be talking to Medivac, because I clearly remember restricting my condemnation to monks.

Even still, I think meat is quite underrated for other jobs.

[Sigi]

Even still, I think meat is quite underrated for other jobs.

Umm.. no.

DRG benefits massively from meat consumption. Since up until Salvage and Limbus was released, the best attack+ tp body available for DRG was the hideous AJ... the att+ from meat vastly helped out ye old parse.

Now what I want to see is for some of my friends to get Ares and the Homam body so we can do the parse-a-thons. After all, it would be nice to get out of the lol-job category.

[aurik]

how the hell is that an "um...no" if you're agreeing with me?