Princess Bards

[Vixy]

how the hell is that an "um...no" if you're agreeing with me?

I think he thought you said "overrated".

[Sigi]

sorry, 4am...

edit: and it's she, not he. Thank you.

[Kenai]

[quote=Fingerspitz][quote=Kenai][quote=Fingerspitz]

I will not merit on PUP without a BRD

best post in the history of BG.

Oh really? Care to explain why?

It's genius in its absurdity. It could be the ultimate poster quote for allaKI noobs who consider BG elitists. And because it's funny.

Its absurd to not want a BRD to have the best exp per hour...?

Yes, it is absurd to want a brd to not have the best exp per hour. Did you miss a negative or do you really expect brds to go out of their way to gimp their pts with a sub-par damage dealer by choice? (as opposed to helping an ls mate/friend get buffer)

shadow dont be mad plz~ ._. was just eating breakfast and couldnt pass this one up, I'm turning off browser in a second![/quote:fe8cb]

What a stupid comment. As both a BRD and a PUP I find that even those classes that you consider "mediocre" are putting in enough damage to make it worth my time. as long as they aren't stupid. I will leave, or kick, anyone who thinks that they are getting a free ride with me, and let me tell you, I have ran into far more shitty WARs and NINs and MNKs than any other loljob out there, and I love to boot them for one of those loljobs and watch my exp per hour go up. The best WARs and NINs and MNKs are fine with me, but I usually do go by player name, and I'd rather take someone I know won't let me down, then hope I just got some GED idiot from the dozen "popular" melee jobs seeking at any time, or begging me to join them.[/quote:fe8cb]

Oh what the hell, I just wrote out a paragraph in response because I thought you were Toth -_-; In any case, what a stupid response, way to ignore the point of my post which was just asking him to clarify what he said. But now that you bring it up, I'm 100% certain my wal-mart war can kick the crap out of an equally equipped loljob in any camp over any number of parses. If you deal in scenarios with equal equipment, non loljobs > loljobs. If your wars cant outparse pups it is not because pup is a superior job, it is because as you say yourself those were crappy wars.[/quote:fe8cb]

You don't seem to understand. I get/got various parties all time time on BRD when I'm in a merit/pulling mood. Those loljobs that you say can never outparse a good non-loljob? They do it alllll the time in a pickup party. Sure, they don't outparse vs a geared normal job, but even then, when I compare decently geared > really good loljob, the difference isn't that signifigant for me to say "Oh, I'm gonna wait for these particular 2-3 people to be logged in at the same time to party with, which may not happen today or this week". That's why I don't mind getting 14k an hour sometimes instead of 18k, or inviting a "loljob", those oh-so uber of the uber bandwagon jobs aren't exactly a dime a dozen, while the pathetic knockoffs are, I have to beat them off with a stick every time i switch to bard.

[Obev]

I honestly have nothing against 'lolmelees'; it's rather the paladin tanks that fuck with positioning and end up with me accidentaly giving the melees Ballads. I'm pretty sure the last 5 or 6 parties I've been in, I've invited dragoons, and still my last party got 11k per hour at level 67.

But then again I'm not a princess bard; I don't even have my Opo crown yet.

[Dark Vincent]

So what I get from the last few pages is that Aurik is a Princess Monk? No offense, but you seem to be completely blind to the concept of "average <job>".

Average Monk does not have:

Relic Weapon. Black Belt. HQ Shura Togi (sometimes not even NQ). HQ Sniper's/Toreador. Byakko's Haidate (maybe those in old days, but definitely not the average MNK of 2007). Brutal Earring (like Shura, some a bit above average do have it, but definitely not the masses). Peacock Charm (again, a bit above average, but not that rare either). Full H2H merits etc etc I'm sure you get the idea by now.

They also use /NIN and Sole Sushi+1, sometimes not being able to keep that up on Colibris.

I'm not saying you have all the above. But I'm sure you have most of it, use /WAR and can afford Meat fulltime in Colibris. So yah, you far from being "average" or "a bit beyond average" MNK, same to the people you parsed with. So comparing yourself to Toth's group was silly and unnecessary, unless you wanted to massage your own ego.

[Lordwafik]

So what I get from the last few pages is that Aurik is a Princess Monk? No offense, but you seem to be completely blind to the concept of "average <job>".

No

Toth said he could compete with good DD's, mnk and thf, aurik is pointing out that those numbers being pooped out by toth's pt are hardly "Good" they're more "Average / subpar / mediocre". Which is what people are ignoring when they're reading auriks post. So in conclusion, toth being on par with those melees reinforces the fact that pup is mediocre at best in a burn.

A "good" mnk is 10% less dmg output than spharai, a "good" thf err well those are like finding a sesame seed in a barnyard, so I can't really compare. Hell, aurik doesn't even have most of those endgame gears that people are flaming him for so it's kinda funny that even without the most leet gear and weapons that only are a 10% increase, he can dish out much more than the most well equipped.

He's not saying everyone needs spharai or anything, infact he's only talking to toth, so scroll allllll the way back and read from there.

[othellojr]

In response to Mnk/Nin on Greater Colibris average damage was in the 78 range for me last party there, normally we have minuet/madrigal and second brd does double marches. My setup for mnk:

Destroyers
Turban for tp // Shura Kabuto/Ohat for ws (depending on acc)
Togi
OKote for tp // Pallas for ws
Byakko Haidate tp // Shura Haidate for ws
Dune Boots for tp // Taru RSE 2 for ws
Peacok Charm
Brutal Earring
Waetotos Earring
Tiphia Sting
Black Belt
Foragers Mantle
Snipers Rings for ring slots

normally eat Sis Kebabi vs Greater Colibri, since its cheap anyways...Normally our rdm would only dia the bugards, she would not bother to dia the birds since they died too quickly (and to save mp for chains)...I am trying to think why a "well geared" mnk/nin would hit so low...sorry Toth, but to post a parse that has mediocre melee does not prove that pup is a good merit DD.

On my last party we had a War/Nin (maneater/joy, 19% haste), a Rng/Nin (Obow, subpar since he insisted that meleeing and shooting does not work..lol was friends of the second brd--fucking brds that insist on "must invite so and so"), myself as Mnk/Nin, Brd, Brd, Rdm, pulled around 18k/hr (another party was there and would take mobs too), half the time I would not have my food up due to not seeing it stolen.

I can only guess for a mnk/nin to have to use sushi and hit so low he/she must not have HTH merited to full yet, also I am curious as to the gear, I am still trying to think what you consider "well geared". As for Aurik being the "standard" for mnks, his gear other than his relic is pretty standard actually(don't mean is bad, meaning alot of mnks can use/do use similar setups), and I agree with his assesment, other than a 10% average increase in damage due to Relic over Destroyers, average hit should still be in the 70s at least for most mnks subbing nin vs Greater Colibri(I am personally not willing to sub war unless is a 1 brd, 2 healer party also, so I am almost permanently subbing nin when I exp outside of KRT).

[Zilong]

The WHM wasn't debuffing at all.

So:
-the thf is fresh 75
-the mnk isn't using food
-the whm isn't using dia2

This parse can't seriously be regarded as support of anything.

All my parser shows is a solid (11-12k/hr) merit party at the Greater Colibri camp where my PUP excelled. As we have discussed, a few changes here and there and everyone will improve, with exp/hr hopefully increasing as well. I am eager now to impart some of these tactics to my party when we go back and I will be sure to parse the difference and post the results. It should be an interesting comparision.

I'm sorry, 11-12k/hour on Greater Colibri doesn't even constitute as "good"

It's not even "average" in my book, since IMO if you're not doing at least 15k/hour in any of the Tandjana Islet camp...you're substandard unless you spend like 15 mins of the hour AFKing or something.

Good party is anything above 15k/hour, but to prove a point that PUP can compare with the very best, it'd need to be 20k+/hour minimum, since anything that are capable of pulling that kind of numbers are the one that would actually be worth comparing numbers to.

If 10k/hour random pickup party is the basis for all my opinion, NIN is the fucking supreme DD.

[Devek]

and people think BARDS are princesses?

[Toth]

Well, regardless of the tone, thanks again for the advice, everyone. I bet with these tips, we can get up to 15k an hour easy.

[Shuemue]

My acc was 94%+, I have very average gear aside from BB, I'm talking borrowed osode, no byakko's haidate, I'll try meat next time I'm out there.

Oh and OJ, don't bother with the bracelets for WS ;P

[othellojr]

My acc was 94%+, I have very average gear aside from BB, I'm talking borrowed osode, no byakko's haidate, I'll try meat next time I'm out there.

Oh and OJ, don't bother with the bracelets for WS ;P

I use them since parser wise for me, they do slightly better than Okote; is a trade off, I used to keep them on, but macro osode for ws, then after Aurik reminded me "keep acc for Asuran" during the "KRT zomg best exp evar" before ToAU existed days, I decided to keep Togi on full time, and use pallas and I get my highest ws numbers that way (average and top ws has for me been with pallas)...I always contribute it to me trying to make up for our taru race's lack of natural str :D

[Shuemue]

I macro in shura head, RSE feet and shura legs (now I have Bahamut's hose) for WS, I dream about a togi, but you know how much Sky Tribe does

[othellojr]

What makes it all the more sad is, Togi used to be something that people joked about when it dropped "damn Kirin, where is Osode, and what is up with this fucking Togi dropping"..boy am I happy that I still lotted for the abjuration and uncursed it even after I had Osode :D I think one of the reasons it was looked as a "bad" drop, them were the days of Rngs > all, and also D. Logs where 10 mil each (fucking 20 mil for my togi, woot! )

[Devek]

I sold my cross counters and bought 6 logs once..

Anyway..

Swapping in STR gear over ATT (osode vs togi/bracelets vs kote) depends on how high level the mobs are.

Like in Dynamis sandy swap out whatever you can for STR cause you're attack is pretty much capped on everything there. On northlands dynamis mobs you want as much attack as possible.

[Beckwin]

Othello: kebabi is 24k/stack. On Remora, thats only slightly lower than Sole most of the time, and a bit more than Squid. Just something to think about.

[othellojr]

Othello: kebabi is 24k/stack. On Remora, thats only slightly lower than Sole most of the time, and a bit more than Squid. Just something to think about.

I guess I should look into the AH, I always forget about meat kabobs being "ok" to use, I guess I can save some gil that way on the fucking thieving birds :D

[TsingTao]

Othello: kebabi is 24k/stack. On Remora, thats only slightly lower than Sole most of the time, and a bit more than Squid. Just something to think about.

I guess I should look into the AH, I always forget about meat kabobs being "ok" to use, I guess I can save some gil that way on the fucking thieving birds :D

Sis Kebabs are 24k/stack from a vendor. Meat Mithkabobs are 4.5-5k a stack on the AH (on Asura). You can get a slightly lower Attack bonus (60 vs 75) for almost 1/5 the cost of Sis Kebabs or Sole Sushi.

Perfect for all your "Damnit, that food only lasted 2 Collibri" needs. Aurik went through about 3 stacks, or 12-15k of Food in his parsed party.

[Tubbers]

I'm fairly certain Osode + Okotes would beat Togi + Pallas for WS Damage.

You're talking 10 str, 10 dex, 10 vit (lolVit, but it helps with asuran >.>) 20 atk, vs, 9 str, -4 dex, 20 atk, 10 acc.

Roughly looking at 2 dex == 1 acc you lose out on 3 acc using Osode + Okotes. However you're given a 14 Dex stat bonus over Togi + Pallas, of which the crit rate alone should beat.

In short
Osode + Okote
10 Vit on WS is 1 base damage
10 Str on WS is 1 base damage (and 2.5 from fSTR) and 5 atk, yey
10 Dex is 5 acc bonus, and some unknown crit boost
20 attack

overall +4.5 base damage +5 acc, +25 attack, crit rate up

Togi + Pallas
10 acc
20 attack
9 Str on WS is .9 base damage (and 2.25 from fSTR) and 4-5 atk
-4 Dex is -2 acc, and some unknown crit un-boost

overall +3.15 base damage +8 acc, +24-25 atk, crit rate down

So: Osode + okotes gains 1.35 base damage, -3 acc, +0-1 atk, some crit bonus. So its 1.35 base damage and some more crits vs 3 acc.

Strictly looking at the numbers and how we know WS mods work, Osode + Okotes probably beats Togi + Palas for WS, for TP Togi + Okotes is most definately better.

Edit: Side note, derail topic gogogo

[Devek]

The problem is that attack is bigger factor than you will ever know, especially for a job that gets such a insignificant boost from stats in their weaponskills compared to other jobs.

When you're in the sweet spot 20 attack is like 10 extra damage a punch.