Game over man, game over! (Aka: we're so fucked.)

[finale23]

stop bothering with the inane wiki challenge thing and respond to my post finale! Sorry, just wanted to stay sort of on topic >>

i did lol, scroll up.

[Jimmayus]

You're right, a large part of the foreign reserves build up is because of the crisis of 97, but there are also aspects of how asian-based firms and asian consumers in general use money (spending vs. saving and so forth); it's also true that the recession of Japan throughout most of the last 15 years has affected futures in Asia in general, and so they're a lot more cautious. However, you and I are probably in agreement that regardless of cause, both my statistic (I apologize again, still trying to source it) and yours are not reflective enough of what's to come to draw good conclusions of future power.

On the environmental issue, I guess having lived in some of the central hubs of Asia and seeing what environmental negligence does to a country may have skewed my feelings on the subject. However, I feel that when the eventual tempering off of their growth rate occurs, it will be in part because of environmental degradation. That's just conjecture however.

[Demetrius*]

whoever mentioned our navy strength was dead on. we'd sink the chinese military before they ever got halfway across the ocean.
it all really goes back to who has more missles cause thats the only card anyone would ever be able to play against us to get past our navy/air force in any turf war against the US.
fun stuff to think about

[Kuya]

God you Americans are goddamn paranoid. You're worried that your going to attack Iran? You are the strongest country on the planet. You loosing to them is highly unlikely. In your current state you can even beat China, and the Middle East combined.

How people can be so ignorant of their own country's abilities, i'll never know.

[finale23]

You're right, a large part of the foreign reserves build up is because of the crisis of 97, but there are also aspects of how asian-based firms and asian consumers in general use money (spending vs. saving and so forth); it's also true that the recession of Japan throughout most of the last 15 years has affected futures in Asia in general, and so they're a lot more cautious. However, you and I are probably in agreement that regardless of cause, both my statistic (I apologize again, still trying to source it) and yours are not reflective enough of what's to come to draw good conclusions of future power.

On the environmental issue, I guess having lived in some of the central hubs of Asia and seeing what environmental negligence does to a country may have skewed my feelings on the subject. However, I feel that when the eventual tempering off of their growth rate occurs, it will be in part because of environmental degradation. That's just conjecture however.

right, but the vast accumulation of savings and reserves also mean that alot of financial resources have yet to be utilized or invested. that's why china's financial sector is the place to be in the next decade. not to mention, china just made its 4 central banks public via IPOs, and that's one hell of a reform, proving that it actually means business. if china plays its card right, its economy could very well be on par with ours in the not too distant future.

i lived in hongkong, tokyo, and singapore before coming back to the states (my dad was a diplomat), and had personally seen some pretty nasty stuff too. no need to bother with the source anymore, i know your posts aren't baseless. it's just deep down that i really hope what you hypothesized is wrong and china could come to terms with its environmental issues before they become irreversible.

[Flarega]

China has one huge advantage over the US. They own a huge amount of our national debt. They could call in all the bonds we've sold them at once and basically F us in the A.

Ninja edit: China has economic power not military power.

[Jimmayus]

Well, think about what happens if they call in our debt: U.S. is screwed, but so is it's major buyer of most of its' products.

It's a lose-lose situation

[finale23]

china won't call in the debts likely, but it always could, that's the real power lol. meanwhile, china is definitely capitalizing on those debts, which probably have a deterring effect on our stance towards taiwan.

[Sho]

God you Americans are goddamn paranoid. You're worried that your going to attack Iran? You are the strongest country on the planet. You loosing to them is highly unlikely. In your current state you can even beat China, and the Middle East combined.

How people can be so ignorant of their own country's abilities, i'll never know.

This post is win.

China has one huge advantage over the US. They own a huge amount of our national debt. They could call in all the bonds we've sold them at once and basically F us in the A.

Ninja edit: China has economic power not military power.

Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" They have the military power, trust in that. Economic power accounts for alot of military power, with the right applications.

[Ksandra]

God you Americans are goddamn paranoid. You're worried that your going to attack Iran? You are the strongest country on the planet. You loosing to them is highly unlikely. In your current state you can even beat China, and the Middle East combined.

How people can be so ignorant of their own country's abilities, i'll never know.

I can't imagine people should be worried that we'd win.

But people can be worried about:

1. possible future attacks from outside groups that we keep pissing off.

2. Inflation/screwed up economy from the price that always comes to being in a war.

3. Friends/family having to die by being sent to a pointless war.

Probably more, but at least those I know are my concerns, including killing innocent people in attemtps to get the "bad" ones.

[Xeno]

We prevent Iraq from dominating the region by ourselves dominating the world!!!

I can't see anything wrong with that mentality.

Think of it like cleaning up a spill, you dont let it spread out as far as it can and get everything in it's path wet before you do somethign about it, you clean it up as soon as possible, and try to contain the spill before it gets out any further

That really made sense in my head but dosent look so good on screen, so use a little imagination, if we let Iran take over more middle eastern country's that's just MORE resources for them to use against us in a War that they obviously want

[Suikoden]

It surprises me how people can be so, I apologize for the lack of a better word, stupid, when it comes who is gonna win or lose in a war, especially a nuclear war.

Yes, U.S. has the most nukes and probably the largest navy. And i can understand that most of the people here are patriots to their nation and it is understandable that they think highly of it. But has anyone even considered a consequence of even 1 nuke landing in U.S. Yes, you will obliterate the other nation and you will win the war, but at what cost. That single nuke can easily wipe out a large city and by wipe out I mean there sure as shit ain't gonna be any more re-building or restoring. So you will win the war but what will you do about millions of people who died and the radiation which will cover a portion of the country.

And as a side note, I simply love the U.S. victory in Vietnam.

[Ace-o-fire]

It surprises me how people can be so, I apologize for the lack of a better word, stupid, when it comes who is gonna win or lose in a war, especially a nuclear war.

Yes, U.S. has the most nukes and probably the largest navy. And i can understand that most of the people here are patriots to their nation and it is understandable that they think highly of it. But has anyone even considered a consequence of even 1 nuke landing in U.S. Yes, you will obliterate the other nation and you will win the war, but at what cost. That single nuke can easily wipe out a large city and by wipe out I mean there sure as shit ain't gonna be any more re-building or restoring. So you will win the war but what will you do about millions of people who died and the radiation which will cover a portion of the country.

And as a side note, I simply love the U.S. victory in Vietnam.

about the us navy.

The USN is the worlds only tier one navy I truly believe it could take on the rest of the world navies and win. It has the number, the weapons, the training, the largest carrier force (11), sub force and among the best weapons systems and sensors in the world. Also, a massive number of towed array ships with plenty of up to date ASW helos

US-Army, it not as big as others, however, it is the best supported and overall best equipped and supported. Net work centric systems, there Armour has been somewhat neglected, but so has the rest of the worlds, save the Chinese. Also, remember the Americans;s have lots of combat experience, even on a medium to large scale and they have the money to train more.


heres a list of all the standing armys
Rank Nation Active troops Active troops per
thousand citizens
1 People's Republic of China 2,250,000 1.72
2 United States 1,427,000 4.79
3 India 1,325,000 1.20
4 North Korea 1,022,000 44.6
5 Russia 960,600 6.70
6 South Korea 686,000 14.2
7 Pakistan 620,000 3.82
8 Iran 540,000 7.94
9 Turkey 514,850 7.39
10 Myanmar 488,000 11.4
11 Vietnam 484,000 5.79
12 Egypt 450,000 5.81
13 Syria 319,000 17.3
14 Thailand 314,200 4.80
15 Indonesia 302,000 1.25
16 Ukraine 295,500 6.23
17 Republic of China 290,000 12.7
18 Brazil 287,600 1.55
19 Germany 284,500 3.45
20 France 259,050 4.27
21 Japan 239,000 1.88
22 United Kingdom 212,660 3.52
23 Eritrea 202,000 44.3
24 Colombia 200,000 4.66
24 Italy 200,000 3.42
26 Morocco 196,000 5.99
27 Mexico 192,770 1.82
28 Greece 177,600 16.6
29 Israel 167,600 24.3
30 Poland 163,000 4.22
31 Ethiopia 162,500 2.22
32 Sri Lanka 152,300 7.59
33 Spain 150,700 3.49
34 Angola 129,000 - 131,000 11.5 - 11.7
35 Algeria 127,500 3.92
36 Bangladesh 125,500 0.870
37 Cambodia 125,000 9.19
38 Saudi Arabia 124,500 4.71
39 Philippines 106,000 1.21
40 Sudan 104,500 2.60
41 Malaysia 104,000 3.97
42 Jordan 100,500 17.4
43 Peru 100,000 3.58
44 Democratic Republic of the Congo 97,800 1.63
45 Romania 97,200 4.35
46 Venezuela 82,300 3.24
47 Nigeria 78,500 0.610
48 Chile 77,300 4.75
49 Libya 76,000 13.2
50 Serbia and Montenegro 74,200 6.85
51 Belarus 72,940 7.08
52 Singapore 72,500 16.4
53 Lebanon 72,100 18.8
54 Argentina 71,400 1.81
55-56 Yemen 66,700 3.22
56-57 Azerbaijan 66,490 8.40
57-58 Kazakhstan 65,800 4.33
55-60 Afghanistan 60,000 - 70,000 2.00 - 2.34
58-59 Nepal 63,000 2.28
60 Uganda 60,000 2.20
61 Ecuador 59,500 4.45
62 Czech Republic 57,050 5.57
63 South Africa 55,750 1.26
64-65 Australia 53,650 2.64
65-66 Netherlands 53,130 3.24
64-71 Uzbekistan 50,000 - 55,000 1.86 - 2.05
66-67 Canada 52,300 1.61
67-68 Bulgaria 51,000 6.85
67-68 Rwanda 51,000 6.04
69-70 Burundi 50,500 7.93
69-70 United Arab Emirates 50,500 19.7
72 Cuba 46,000 4.05
73 Portugal 44,900 4.25
74 Armenia 44,660 15.0
75 Oman 41,700 13.9
76 Belgium 40,800 3.94
77 Tunisia 35,000 3.47
78 Austria 34,600 4.23
79 Hungary 33,400 3.31
80 Bolivia 31,500 3.56
81 Guatemala 31,400 2.14
82 Chad 30,350 3.09
83 Laos 29,100 4.68
84 Turkmenistan 29,000 5.86
84 Zimbabwe 29,000 2.28
86 Sweden 27,600 3.07
87 Finland 27,000 5.17
87 Tanzania 27,000 0.734
89 Norway 26,600 5.79
90 Dominican Republic 24,500 2.74
91 Kenya 24,120 0.713
92 Uruguay 24,000 7.03
93 Cameroon 23,100 1.41
94 Denmark 22,880 4.21
95 Albania 22,000 6.17
95 Slovakia 22,000 4.05
97 Croatia 20,800 4.63
98 Bosnia and Herzegovina 19,800 4.92
99 Paraguay 18,600 2.93
100 Zambia 18,100 1.61
101 Georgia 17,500 3.74
102 Côte d'Ivoire 17,050 0.99
103 Mauritania 15,750 5.10
104 El Salvador 15,500 2.31
104 Kuwait 15,500 6.64
106-107 Nicaragua 14,000 2.56
107-109 Senegal 13,620 1.22
108-110 Madagascar 13,500 0.748
106-110 Sierra Leone 13,000 - 14,000 2.16 - 2.33
106-115 Liberia 11,000 - 15,000 3.16 - 4.31
110-111 Republic of Macedonia 12,850 6.28
111-112 Lithuania 12,700 3.53
112-113 Qatar 12,400 14.4
113-114 Honduras 12,000 1.72
114-115 Bahrain 11,200 16.3
116 Kyrgyzstan 10,900 2.12
117 Burkina Faso 10,800 0.776
118 Ireland 10,460 2.53
119 Cyprus 10,000 12.8
119 Republic of the Congo 10,000 3.29
121 Djibouti 9,850 20.7
122 Guinea 9,700 1.02
123 Guinea-Bissau 9,250 6.53
124 Botswana 9,000 5.49
124 Namibia 9,000 4.43
126 New Zealand 8,610 2.10
127 Mongolia 8,600 3.08
128 Togo 8,550 1.50
129 Mozambique 8,200 0.423
130 Mali 7,350 0.598
131 Brunei 7,000 18.8
131 Ghana 7,000 0.333
133 Moldova 6,910 1.55
134 Slovenia 6,550 1.21
135 Tajikistan 6,000 0.838
136 Estonia 5,510 4.13
137 Malawi 5,300 0.436
138 Latvia 4,880 2.13
139 Gabon 4,700 3.38
140 Benin 4,550 0.610
141 Niger 4,300 0.369
142 Fiji 3,500 3.92
143 Switzerland 3,300 0.441
144 Papua New Guinea 3,100 0.559
145 Jamaica 2,830 1.04
146 Trinidad and Tobago 2,700 2.48
147 Central African Republic 2,550 0.671
148 Malta 2,140 5.37
149 Lesotho 2,000 1.07
150 Suriname 1,840 4.20
151 Guyana 1,600 2.09
152 Equatorial Guinea 1,320 2.46
153 Cape Verde 1,200 2.87
154 Belize 1,050 3.76
155 Luxembourg 900 1.92
156 Bahamas 860 2.85
157 Gambia 800 0.502
158 Timor-Leste 650 0.624
159 Barbados 610 2.18
160 Seychelles 450 5.54
161 Antigua and Barbuda 170 2.47

[Xavier]

It surprises me how people can be so, I apologize for the lack of a better word, stupid, when it comes who is gonna win or lose in a war, especially a nuclear war.

Yes, U.S. has the most nukes and probably the largest navy. And i can understand that most of the people here are patriots to their nation and it is understandable that they think highly of it. But has anyone even considered a consequence of even 1 nuke landing in U.S. Yes, you will obliterate the other nation and you will win the war, but at what cost. That single nuke can easily wipe out a large city and by wipe out I mean there sure as shit ain't gonna be any more re-building or restoring. So you will win the war but what will you do about millions of people who died and the radiation which will cover a portion of the country.

Your argument is great and all, I agree the cost of winning the war would be extreme but...thats based on the assumption that -America- is attacked first.

Assuming America is attacked first and provoked, I don't really understand what the second half of your comment is about, since that damage would already be done to the country.

And as a side note, I simply love the U.S. victory in Vietnam.

Der einzige Verlust

[Sixtail]

Gamers for some reason are -infected- with "Added Effect-No f'n clue" when it comes down to it. Yes, if a nuke goes off in a major city, you have millions dead. You also pretty much have the end of whoever did it because if you study things, when the US is attacked first, the hawks always murder the doves and people line up for a chance to get guns and shoot whoever fired the first shot. The number of vets is -huge-, just because we don't have them active does not mean we couldn't put a few more million in uniform damned quick.

When it comes down to it, two things are gonna happen to Iran. The first one is, he will push and push and Israel will say "Fuck this" and strike first. See, people do not understand that the Jewish people will -not- go quietly into the night and when it comes down to it, they could turn Iran into a huge glowing pit a lot faster then we could or would. Sure they would suffer huge ass losses but the whole freaking country has lived the last 40 years as if they could fast the final war tommarrow and unlike us, they never got relaxed. Never. Every single time someone blows themseleves up is a reminder of that to the people over there. The US also will -not- let them go into the night because the US and the UK turned a blind eye to it once and by the time they woke up, a few million had paid the price. Do some research on that.

The second thing that will happen is the people will rise up and overthrow the goverment in Iran and the mullahs (Who make no mistake are the true power) are scared to death of that. It's one reason Iran pays for so many terrorist actions because they can not allow two free nation-states right next to them and let their people see what it's like to live outside of a goverment not ran by them. This is becoming a big issue over there as more and more youth are demanding freedom and they do all they can to block any bleed in of "Western Culture." It only takes a few higher ups with enough control over their troops to bring down a goverment of that ilk and if enough of the common folk revolt, then the whole house of cards could fall.


China is not intrested in fighting us, not yet anyway. They have trillions of dollars to make off of us and while we owe them a lot of money, if we yanked our intrests, it would cripple them. Why do you think they haven't gone after Taiwan yet? Because we would go after them. We would have to because we could not let them do it and say nothing.We gave our word and the few times we have not kept it has cost us dearly. If we don't keep our word that we would strike with the full fury and power of the USA if China moved in on Taiwan and the free people there, then we don't defend anything. And no one will trust us, no one will repsect us, not even our own people. If we turned our back on Taiwan or Israel, then we are not the people we say we are and everything we've ever done, ever sent our troops to die for, seen our own people die for is a lie and that will be the true and final death of the USA as we know it. The body may never die, but the reason behind it will have.

[Aerin]

God you Americans are goddamn paranoid. You're worried that your going to attack Iran? You are the strongest country on the planet. You loosing to them is highly unlikely. In your current state you can even beat China, and the Middle East combined.

How people can be so ignorant of their own country's abilities, i'll never know.

I can't imagine people should be worried that we'd win.

But people can be worried about:

1. possible future attacks from outside groups that we keep pissing off.

2. Inflation/screwed up economy from the price that always comes to being in a war.

3. Friends/family having to die by being sent to a pointless war.

Probably more, but at least those I know are my concerns, including killing innocent people in attemtps to get the "bad" ones.

Personally i'm not paranoid at all as to if we'll win the war over (input country here).

If it does come down to a nuclear war, what concerns me is that one of our major cities will get nuked as well. Which, granted, would most likely only happen as a first strike attack against us. I doubt we'd let one get in after that war broke out.

Just because you can win the war though doesn't mean you shouldn't be worried about the idea of it.

"Meh they nuked Seattle, oh well we still won it's ok"

**Onto next war**

"Well there goes New York now, we're still good that's only 2 and we won"

**Next war**

"Orz San Fransisco and Houston now too, but it's ok cause there's 3 countries we wont ever have to worry about again"


Am i the only one that see's something wrong with this?

[Suikoden]

Gamers for some reason are -infected- with "Added Effect-No f'n clue" when it comes down to it. Yes, if a nuke goes off in a major city, you have millions dead. You also pretty much have the end of whoever did it because if you study things, when the US is attacked first, the hawks always murder the doves and people line up for a chance to get guns and shoot whoever fired the first shot. The number of vets is -huge-, just because we don't have them active does not mean we couldn't put a few more million in uniform damned quick.

Considering you are on BG board kinda puts you in the same "Gamer" category. So how about you don't jump to assumptions on other peoples' opinions and simply post your own like you did further in your post.

When it comes down to it, two things are gonna happen to Iran. The first one is, he will push and push and Israel will say "Fuck this" and strike first. See, people do not understand that the Jewish people will -not- go quietly into the night and when it comes down to it, they could turn Iran into a huge glowing pit a lot faster then we could or would. Sure they would suffer huge ass losses but the whole freaking country has lived the last 40 years as if they could fast the final war tommarrow and unlike us, they never got relaxed. Never. Every single time someone blows themseleves up is a reminder of that to the people over there. The US also will -not- let them go into the night because the US and the UK turned a blind eye to it once and by the time they woke up, a few million had paid the price. Do some research on that.

You are missing the point. I made absolutely no reference to Israel or Iran. It was a general statement. And this is also referring to Xavier's reply. I didn't make an assumption that U.S. would be attacked first. My point was that be it U.S. makes the first strike or be it that they are attacked first, almost any war in our time would be resolved with nukes. I know perfectly well that U.S. will most likely win any 1on1 war thrown at them, some nations will cost them huge casualties, some won't. The main point is, if war breaks out, regardless of who started it, it will only take 1 nuke to land to leave a permanent scar. You don't need to look far for this. People are still clearing debris and bringing flowers to where the WTC was. Now imagine if nuke hits.

[Exoduso]

Iran shouldn't try to start shit with Israel because they will fuck them up. bad.

[Koyuki]

K I bought my ticket to canada anyone else wanna come?

[Exoduso]

K I bought my ticket to canada anyone else wanna come?

Onry to Ontario, kk?