Salvage Gears anyone?

[Godlywargod]

What if the haste affect(effect? sorry get confused on this one) doesn't count towards the equipment cap?

I dunno just putting that out there if it hasn't been, if it has, my bad.

[Starr]

What if the haste affect(effect? sorry get confused on this one) doesn't count towards the equipment cap?

I dunno just putting that out there if it hasn't been, if it has, my bad.

Then you still can't get any more Haste from gear other than Shinobi Ring, Wyvern Earring or 20% Earring which are all stupid to activate anyway so it doesn't matter.

[Starr]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...r_1987/sal.png
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b..._1987/salv.png

[Arthars]

if set is 10% haste

i will wear it all day lol

10 + 3 + 3 for set
+ 6 speed belt

22% is pretty good enough

You missed the Sune-Ate, it's 24% with speed belt.

holy shit i forgot lol

yea if set is 10% that will be 24% which is like GREAT

it is still good if its only 6-8%

[RKenshin]

I don't see why you're so unsure about Usukane as being the best for NIN? If anything, I think Usukane was tailor made for NIN.

Outside of major HNM fights where NIN is main tanking, it's the quintessential all-purpose set for things like small number dynamis, small number limbus, small number salvage, or any event where it calls for the NIN to play main tank, and DD at the same time. This set SHINES in small number events. It's everything rolled into one. And not to mention, it'll finally make Meat viable for NIN without losing an assload of haste. And if the bonus turns out to be at least 8% haste bonus, that's enough to convince me it's hands down the best set for everything outside of major HNM fights for NIN.

Because it would be less haste/attack/DEX than with a normal NIN setup where you can still reach ~24% haste + the dual wield bonus on AF1 body (if you use it). It would be traded for for store TP and accuracy, and usually I'm capped on accuracy on NIN when using sushi. Plus, keep in mind I said I was speaking strictly from a DD standpoint so I'm not factoring in the evasion. But it's not something I'd consider a deciding factor anyway really since I'm accustomed to not evading often to begin with at this point between SAM, DD NIN, MNK/NIN, and WAR/NIN.

If the bonus was 5% which is what I'm kind of expecting (mostly because I don't want to get my hopes up), NIN will have a good deal less haste using full usukane. Even in the best scenario where it's 10%, your attack speed will still be slightly lower although I think that full usukane would be best still in this scenario. However since we don't know the % for sure, I'm still going to assume it's about 5% until we find out for sure. In which case, the set isn't as appetizing for NIN and MNK IMO.

As far as the meat build thing goes, I don't think it provides enough accuracy to justify it completely on NIN still. I've tried a few different meat builds on NIN with a good deal of accuracy from different sources totalling over what you could get from Usukane, and I still wasn't comfortable with my accuracy/performance. Obviously this is a personal opinion as some people still prefer meat on NIN. But Usukane would provide about the same/less acc than the builds I tried while also giving more haste, but that won't change the fact I didn't like my accuracy (but, I also don't have Katana merits). So that's why I'm up in the air about it.

And, in the case of a meat build I think I'd rather balance Usukane and other pieces anyway, and still get better bonuses (just wearing dusk gloves+1 on hands would almost cancel out haste bonus of wearing full Usukane if it's 5%).

But yeah, it's hard to say for sure without looking into it more and without finding out for sure what the real haste bonus is.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Well, if you're speaking from a STRICTLY DD standpoint, I can see there are very slightly better option. But again, like I said, this is THE all-around set for NIN. Like I mention in my last post, for things like small man limbus, salvage, dynamis, etc., this set shines. Hell, you can even say it's THE all around set for those crazy counter-tank loving monk also.

[Xerlic]

http://www.karasuls.com/wp-content/u.../Skadifeet.jpg

Upgrade #4 for us.

[Arthars]

we have too many arrapago 35 drops-that-become-armor here in this forum LOL

[TB]

But again, like I said, this is THE all-around set for NIN.

"All-around" gear sucks. Shit is situational.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Uh, no. All around gear pre-salvage sucked. All-around gear post-salvage fucking rocks. I know it's hard to believe, but SE actually fucking delivered with (most) salvage sets.

[aurik]

FWIW I disagree with Ruke re: fulltime usukane on monk.

Usukane:
STR +16
DEX +13
Accuracy +36
Attack +17
Haste +8% + ???
Store TP +13
Subtle Blow +5
Counter +2

Non-salvage haste build: Togi, Turban, Bando, Byakko, Fuma
STR +0
DEX +15
Acc +10
Attack +42
Haste +13%

Difference:
STR +16
DEX -2
Acc +26
Att -25
Haste -5% + ???
Store TP +13

Clearly the full set is gonna outperform the full pre-salvage cookie cutter. The real question is whether we can acheive a mix-and-match build that is stronger.

Somen vs Turban -- Somen easily wins
USune-Ate vs FSune-Ate -- USune-Ate easily wins
Haramaki (STR 8 DEX 8 Acc 12 STP 6) vs Togi (Att 20 Acc 10), is pretty close to a draw. Haramaki has 6 more acc, Togi has a slight advantage on attack which is largely negated due to haramaki's large strength bonus.

The other 2 pieces I'm going to compare in a pair, since they're easily the weakest of the set.
Gote+Hizayoroi (Acc 10 Att 10 STR 5 DEX 5 Haste 3+X) vs Bando+Byakko (Att 22 DEX 15 Haste 5)
Eliminating common bonuses, it becomes (Acc 10 STR 5 Haste X) vs (Att 12 DEX 10 Haste 2)
STR5 and Att12 are pretty equivalent, with a slight edge to Att. I'd take Acc 10 over DEX10 always. If X (set haste) is 2 or higher, then it's a clear win for the Usukane pair.

[Blackice]

To achieve optimal preformance for WS/TP/Enmity ect on NIN, wearing full Usukane as "All-around" gear is a horrible idea. Like stated before, shit is situational.

[Godlywargod]

What if the haste affect(effect? sorry get confused on this one) doesn't count towards the equipment cap?

I dunno just putting that out there if it hasn't been, if it has, my bad.

Then you still can't get any more Haste from gear other than Shinobi Ring, Wyvern Earring or 20% Earring which are all stupid to activate anyway so it doesn't matter.

I was coming from a 10% or more from a mnks point of view kinda thing.

5% would make a BB mnk hit the 25% cap so it not being part of the equipment cap would make it more usefull to them if it is 6% or greater.

[Almalexia]

To achieve optimal preformance for WS/TP/Enmity ect on NIN, wearing full Usukane as "All-around" gear is a horrible idea. Like stated before, shit is situational. Unless you are a PUP, in which case Usukane is the greatest thing to ever happen to you, the puppetmaster.

[aurik]

To achieve optimal preformance for WS/TP/Enmity ect on NIN, wearing full Usukane as "All-around" gear is a horrible idea. Like stated before, shit is situational. Unless you are a PEP, in which case Usukane is the greatest thing to ever happen to you, the peppermaster.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Maybe you guys are misunderstanding "all-around" gear. At least, my definition. You guys are thinking all-around gear as in never macroing in anything else. My definition of all-around gear is versatility. Name of the game for NIN. The ability to evasion tank, while maintaining good-to-great haste build,and, most importantly, taking almost zero hit to your DD potential. Pre-salvage, this was possible, but at the cost of one or the other. You COULD evasion tank, but then you'd wear Ohat over Turban, you'd wear SH+1 over Koga/Ninja Chainmail/Haub+1, etc. Yes, you can macro for your WS, but you can't deny that while TPing and tanking in this set, your DoT takes a huge hit due to lack of haste/attack, which most of the time leads to problem holding hate.

Again I stress: this set is fucking amazing for low number events like dynamis, limbus, salvage and such, where the NIN is main hate holder, tank and DD.

And I'm fully aware in a PURE DD standpoint -- merit PT where the NIN isn't even the tank or the hate is hate is bounced around -- your run of the mill 18% haste set up would win. And in a pure tanking standpoint -- where you're NIN/DRKing Tiamat in a fire resist set up. But for everything in between, I fail to see how this set isn't pure sex.

I'm also in agreement with Aurik: full Usukane is amazing for MNk as well. Hell, if anything, I'd think SAM gets the least out of this set up compared to NIN and MNK.

[Wizerd]

You COULD evasion tank, but then you'd wear Ohat over Turban, you'd wear SH+1 over Koga/Ninja Chainmail/Haub+1, etc.

I evasion tank in Walahra Turban, Koga Chainmail, Koga Tekko, Byakko's Haidate, and Fuma Sune-Ate on NIN. It's not because I'm trying to get a Haste build, it's because none of those slots have any good Evasion items. I've found "Evasion" to be completely worthless on anything, whereas Evasion Skill makes a difference. If I'm in old zones I sometimes use Prafectus Gloves depending on nation control, but that's about the only time it changes. Melody Earrings, Evasion Torque, Boxer's Mantle is all you need. A couple crit katanas for that evasion tank setup and you never lose hate. ;p

Again I stress: this set is fucking amazing for low number events like dynamis, limbus, salvage and such, where the NIN is main hate holder, tank and DD.

NIN can already do this for low number Dynamis, Limbus, and Salvage. Merit-style attack&haste setup works in all 3. But I do agree full Usukane will be nice. Too bad I'll have to bring some other pieces of gear in Salvage anyway for until I get all 4 cells unlocked though.

[Arthars]

if the set gives enhance 5% AT LEAST, the set is gotta be great wearing fulltime TPing

u can do whatever u want for WS, ugly armor mix is ok for the 2 sec lolz

as for "full time wearing" thing, who the hell still WS in TP gear O_O;

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

NIN can already do this for low number Dynamis, Limbus, and Salvage. Merit-style attack&haste setup works in all 3. But I do agree full Usukane will be nice. Too bad I'll have to bring some other pieces of gear in Salvage anyway for until I get all 4 cells unlocked though.

Yeah, NIN can already do what I wrote already, but now they can do it even better. Which was my point =D.

I mean, if you're gonna use the whole "we can already do that without salvage gear" excuse, then practically every piece of gear post Zilart King is useless, considering everything can be beaten with 3-4 year old gears. Nothing in this game at the moment forces you to have the state of the art gear to have any sort of chance.

[Odion]

as for "full time wearing" thing, who the hell still WS in TP gear O_O;

Ballista anyone!?