Recourse for banned accounts

[mika]

This happened to a girlffriend and boyfriend. They both had there accounts on a "friends" CC. Anyways, the friend was caught using 3rd party software and the couple's accounts got banned as well. The couple tried dto get there accounts back, but the LD calls starting to rack up calling the US. It suxs, no one has heard anything of the couple, rumored they broke up and she moved back to Germany from Amsterdam. We miss ya Sopethia!

Oh, rumour has it the person who was banned for using bots to claim KA, has recently spent in the thousands to obtain several new accounts on Odin. One of the accounts has 4-5 level 100 crafts.

-v

Fireballx <3

His new Accounts are Oskilfai/Mikejustice/Zaknefain he also opend a new Sky/HNM/Dynamis blabla LS called Germania.
That LS is preety retarded it has alot gilbuyer and some Member also bought Sky items from RMT befor.

[Kyreth]

What is their purpose in banning accounts? Is it to remove "tained" accounts from the system? If so, then sure there should be no recourse. But you and I would both agree that the account doesn't have a mind of its own, it's only as tained as the person controlling it. The reason they're taking a hard stance on 3rd party tools is to reduce the usage of 3rd party tools in the world. In this case, banning the account did not reduce the usage of 3rd party tools, because they banned a non-3rd party tool user.

If you're handing your account to other people, obviously you have relinquished control over it. Had a friend do the exact same thing to let a banned friend "chat with the LS" using his account.

You guessed it, ban-boy still had and used fleetool. Free ride on the B&wagon for my friend. Luckily, he'd retired from FFXI and was just trying to (you guessed it) chat with his old LS when LM-17 showed up trying to log in.

In this case, it banned someone stupid enough to give their account info to a 3rd party that wasn't part of the original account agreement. Your friends are fucked, and I hope whoever got them fucked is within driving distance and too slow to avoid a Louisville Slugger Makeover for screwing them over, cause the two people being nice and stupid is bad, but being the one to fuck said nice people over deserves a kneecapping and involuntary dental reconstruction.

[Robert]

A friend on Team Speak earlier was saying how someone in his linkshell had an account that they sold to a RMT, and before he sold it several other people had used the account and that the 3 pepole who had previously paid for the character on their card were all banned. No conformation yet on whether or not this is true yet though.

doesn't seem like they would keep all the past credit card info of accounts for months but i dunno, an account i used to pay the monthly fee for and was changed 4 months ago was banned and im not banned, yet anyway

edit, just clicked what you said about RMT..wasn't thinking. yea-they ban all credit cards associated with selling gil I think..idk tho

[Nuriko]

I don't know if this is still relevant, but about 2 years ago a friend had got a third warning and thus perma-ban for supposedly warp-hacking an NM. It took him a week but he somehow convinced SE to give him his account back. I don't know all the details of it, but he mentioned it took a lot of calls, asking for the higher-ups and demanding for proof of his warp hacking (which they couldn't provide at the time, they probably have made better detection tools since then). I think he just kept calling and harassing them until he spoke with someone that would listen to his case. In the end, they gave him the account back. Again, don't know if this is helpful at all since they've probably revamped their policies since becoming pro-active against RMT and 3rd party tools, but basically his key was to just keep calling back until he spoke with the right person.

On a related note, how closely does SE compare banned account info with currently active active account info? Another friend of mine got banned during the first round of mass bannings 6 months ago. He had another account on the same CC which had deactivated the month prior since he didn't feel like paying for it at the time. Now, 6 months later he wants to play again on said deactivated account. I recommended using a different CC card to reactivate with, which he did, but I'm wondering if there's anything else SE might use to compare this account with his banned account and thus ban this one too. Anyone know?

[Sylphet]

We complained for ages about how SE did nothing about gilsellers and botters.

Now, SE is actually doing a lot about both of them...

and we're complaining

It really sucks that your friend is getting punished for something he didn't do but I highly doubt that SE will care. Look at it from their perspective:

A team of 20 accounts of gilsellers all have the same billing. The gilsellers use 3 of these accounts to bot. None of the accounts who bot have any good gear or are properly leveled. SE bans only the accounts who bot but the accounts with all the gil and decent gear are still there. What's the solution? Ban all account with the same billing association as the accounts that bot.

They are in fact doing what we asked them to.

Again, sucks for your friend and it's probably worth a phone call to SE at least but ultimately have to be prepared for the possiblity that the account is lost.

[Raineer]

They have no recourse. If it's a 3-day ban then they just sweat it out, but it's a strike that might haunt them later. SE just randomly banned some people who had a strike before in a later round, just for the hell of it with no future violations.

If it's the perm ban, there is no recourse at all. I only had one 3-day ban and my account is still fine. If it's permanent then they mail you a letter and it's done. Period.

If you are on LM-xx status they won't even discuss it with you. You get no specifics, besides "we have the right to ban anyone anytime" and there is no review. SE has no customer service, nor do they care. Sorry

[divisortheory]

Apparently it was an LM-17 (this is temp right?), but the people at POL says "actually it's really a perma-ban". Do LM-17s always come back, or do they sometimes change to LM-11 after the waiting period is over>?

[othellojr]

Apparently it was an LM-17 (this is temp right?), but the people at POL says "actually it's really a perma-ban". Do LM-17s always come back, or do they sometimes change to LM-11 after the waiting period is over>?

Normally LM-17 is term, but normally they put it as "it is being reviewed and maybe permanently"..so is term and possible permanently banned. Just have to wait, and hope for the best for your friend, and tell your friend to not let anyone else use his account, lol.

[jaryk]

You have to examine this from the SE's perspective, there's no way they can prove that it wasn't the original account owners who were cheating, as far as they're concerned anyone could use that as an excuse. Unless they have a time stamped web cam of this guy cheating during that time then how can they prove that it wasn't really them? Also as someone who has had their account screwed by giving info to LS members I will in fact say "THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN THEIR ACCOUNT INFO OUT!"

[Skjie]

only let fucking people know it if you are within driving distance of beating the fucking shit out of them. (Know them in person)

Eventually people are going to have to learn this, or more people are going to get screwed who "did no wrong".

[Croaker]

I suspect that SE will only care about 1/20th of the amount you care.

They know they will accidentally get a few legitimate accounts caught in their ban. They must assume that those legitimate accounts will flood them with calls and letters. If they have no hard evidence on your friends, and they make enough noise, I am sure SE will help them.

I do think it is very interesting that SE considers the account owner to be the person who pays the monthly bills and not the person who plays the account or holds the reciept for the discs. From a legal perspective you can not claim on loss of property you didn't own.

And dvsparse is amazing. :D Cant wait for DPS update.

[Faris]

sometimes it says LM-17, but when you call them they will tell you that the account is actually banned permanently. However, i've known some people that had LM-11 and got their accounts back. Some of these people bugged SE via phone, and some never even bothered to call, but got their Accounts back.

SE will also ban accounts with the same CC info, i know a friend of mine who payed for 8 different accounts, and they all got banned because of 1 clumsy mistake from 1 character/person. They never got their accounts back.

It's really confusing how this whole banning system thing works.

[divisortheory]

You have to examine this from the SE's perspective, there's no way they can prove that it wasn't the original account owners who were cheating, as far as they're concerned anyone could use that as an excuse. Unless they have a time stamped web cam of this guy cheating during that time then how can they prove that it wasn't really them? Also as someone who has had their account screwed by giving info to LS members I will in fact say "THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN THEIR ACCOUNT INFO OUT!"

Actually they should have logs of what IP addresses people connect from, and they should be able to determine easily that legit people only every connected through IP Address A, except for this few week long period where it was connected through IP Address B, which just so happens the only IP Address that this other guy has connected through, all the hacking happened through IP Address B, then it went back to IP Address A forever.

Does it prove that they were innocent? No, but it does introduce reasonable doubt. And yes, I realize we're dealing with a video game and not the american justice system.

[Nystul]

It's already impossible to get some form of recourse when you have a legitimate complaint, I don't see why on earth SE would even bother with someone that deserves to be banned. Loaning out the character assumes all risk of what the other person will do with it, end of story. You're not even supposed to give out character info according to SE's rules. They're fucked. Even if they played on PS2, never heard of flee tool, and never gave out their account info they would still be fucked because SE bans who they want and thats it.

[Septimus]

You have to examine this from the SE's perspective, there's no way they can prove that it wasn't the original account owners who were cheating, as far as they're concerned anyone could use that as an excuse. Unless they have a time stamped web cam of this guy cheating during that time then how can they prove that it wasn't really them? Also as someone who has had their account screwed by giving info to LS members I will in fact say "THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN THEIR ACCOUNT INFO OUT!"

Actually they should have logs of what IP addresses people connect from, and they should be able to determine easily that legit people only every connected through IP Address A, except for this few week long period where it was connected through IP Address B, which just so happens the only IP Address that this other guy has connected through, all the hacking happened through IP Address B, then it went back to IP Address A forever.

Does it prove that they were innocent? No, but it does introduce reasonable doubt. And yes, I realize we're dealing with a video game and not the american justice system.

But on the other hand, how can Square prove that the account owner didn't go on a trip and decide to POS hack and what not while he/she was visiting a friend? Reasonable doubt on the reasonable doubt.

[Eterny]

Same here ~ me and my Bro are on the same CC we both got a LM-17 GG~SE

[Raineer]

Apparently it was an LM-17 (this is temp right?), but the people at POL says "actually it's really a perma-ban". Do LM-17s always come back, or do they sometimes change to LM-11 after the waiting period is over>?

When I had a 3-day ban it was initially LM-17 then changed to 11 (or whichever way), it was "permanent" initially then after an hour it changed to the 3day code.

I would just say they wait 3 days and see, if it hasn't changed then it's permanent.

[Nystul]

SE isn't interested in reasonable doubt.

If they detect any movement irregularities they will ban the account and any other accounts on that same credit card. They require no evidence other than what satisfies themselves, the concept of reasonable doubt does not enter into it. They dont' have to prove anything.

Now the irony here is why then don't they just shitcan anyone that looks like an RMT. My guess is that they leave the fish bots sitting around so they can trace the network of what money goes to what players.

But yea like...keep in mind when you agree to play, you agree to a TOS that says SE can ban you for whatever reasons THEY deem appropriate.

[Credos]

Sucks to see "legit" people get banned, but I remember about a year and a half ago when people were demanding a more strict enforcement of the ToS.

Be careful what you wish for I suppose.

[Sonomaa]

if you want the account back, get a lawyer, said lawyer will have to put pressure on SE to actually do an exact review of the connection information, prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt, the person involved in using the 3rd party tools was on that account at that time. If they cannot do that, they then forfeit the right to use their get out of jail card that says they can ban anyone. There will be lots of pressure involved from the lawyer though, and it might get expensive.

Its basically bully and threat tactics to get them to do a real full review, not just review that the person hacked, but review that the hacks were used by that person.