Grand Wyrms and Sleep resistance.

[RKenshin]

I would say it generates hate close to the amount that Sleep does if not more, only downside is they cost significantly more MP. But, typically I can get off 1-4 between Stun/Bind recasts and still be ok on MP (and I only have like 90).

So you don't use Kurayami at all? Just normal Dark Magic spells?

I'm always going Stun > Bind > Sleep > Kurayami and repeat. And yea, it's pretty impossible to lose hate with this rotation.

I usually do as well, I just typically don't stick to a set in stone rotation. I'm kind of random... But, I do tend to use dark magic spells over the ninjutsu debuffs. I'll usually check my MP and the recasts on Absorb spells (and/or Sleep on some HNMs) first, and depending on how much MP I have I'll use those before ninjutsu.

I end up going in a pattern something like this:

Stun > Bind > Sleep (if NM isn't Sleepable) > 1-4 Absorb spells (dependent on MP) > Ninjutsu Debuffs (Blind and/or Slow)

Then, whether I leave out some of those depends on shadows remaining and MP. Otherwise if shadows are fine I go through a pretty long cycle. Mostly just me ADDing I think. D:

[Raineer]

Tiamat doesn't sleep "well" without ES regardless, no matter how much skill your RDM's have. Tiamat is always 100% *ES* sleepable. I watched 6 hour kills on Siren where a 6 BLM rotation of ES Sleeps was completely the strategy from 99% to 0. Never saw one last under 90 seconds.

Fafnir, yes. Tiamat, no.

[Meloria]

For nin/drk couldn't you also use soul eater and last resort for hate? Keep in mind I'm not a tank, but aren't they like 5 minute timers?

I think our nin/drks rotate kirayami, stun, bind, and sleep. When cotanking with pld/nin i think they use SE and LR since pld has more hate tools.

[Zoolander]

For nin/drk couldn't you also use soul eater and last resort for hate? Keep in mind I'm not a tank, but aren't they like 5 minute timers?

I think our nin/drks rotate kirayami, stun, bind, and sleep. When cotanking with pld/nin i think they use SE and LR since pld has more hate tools.

Of course...when they are up. Thats every 5 minutes though...they are talking about their general spell rotation.

On topic: Didn't they make an update a few months/year back adding a sleep resistance build up to the great wyrms (or increased their resistance over time)?

[RKenshin]

For nin/drk couldn't you also use soul eater and last resort for hate? Keep in mind I'm not a tank, but aren't they like 5 minute timers?

I think our nin/drks rotate kirayami, stun, bind, and sleep. When cotanking with pld/nin i think they use SE and LR since pld has more hate tools.

Yeah as Zoolander said, I use those along with every ability (minus Mijin!) just about whenever they're up. Goes without saying for the most part.

[Raineer]

On topic: Didn't they make an update a few months/year back adding a sleep resistance build up to the great wyrms (or increased their resistance over time)?

Yes, and we watched those Tiamats after that patch. It did absolutely zero.

It did make it a little harder for those that zombie fafnir, but still not impossible.

[Orph]

I thought that update only effected Ouryu, before he could be slept without ever using ES, after the update you needed ES.

[Raineer]

I thought that update only effected Ouryu, before he could be slept without ever using ES, after the update you needed ES.

They said it affected all "Grand Wyrms", the only one of note we tried was Tiamat.

That's not to say we didn't sleep an Ouryu or two, but we used ES I think everytime.

[Orph]

I just remember reading people saying that before the patch they would accidentally sleep Ouryu by sleepgaing one of the worms. I don't know from experience, just what I have read.

[Damen]

ES still builds to the resistance, take Kirin for example, your first 5-6 ES Gravity will work well and last decent amount of time, afterwards ES will still land, but last like 15 seconds and get considerably shorter each time thereafter, dunno about Sleep II, ES gravity causes this resistance build considerably fast on Kirin and Jailer of Faith.

Completey different from sleep. It's not about ES or not, it's just gravity. There was an update several patches (Feb 26th 2004 or 2005) ago that nerfed gravity on NMs.

"Repeated use of the spell Gravity on notorious monsters will result in the monster slowly building up a resistance to the magic's effect. This resistance wears off with time."

[Kaeko]

For sleep resistance, I believe it is built based on the duration it is slept, not the # of times it is landed. On Ouryu, we have NIN/DRK sleep as much as possible and no resistance (shorter duration ES sleep) is ever seen. Can't say 1 way or other on Tiamat, we'll have NIN/DRK put sleep in order but haven't really needed the ES Sleep lately.

I have been to Tiamats where we've had to hold it with like 3 BLMs using ES sleep for 20+ minutes, and the duration definately goes down to like 5 seconds even on ES. So there is definately some sort of "resist" that builds since a 90second sleep consistantly goes down to 5seconds.

[Seditedi]

ES still builds to the resistance, take Kirin for example, your first 5-6 ES Gravity will work well and last decent amount of time, afterwards ES will still land, but last like 15 seconds and get considerably shorter each time thereafter, dunno about Sleep II, ES gravity causes this resistance build considerably fast on Kirin and Jailer of Faith.

Completey different from sleep. It's not about ES or not, it's just gravity. There was an update several patches (Feb 26th 2004 or 2005) ago that nerfed gravity on NMs.

"Repeated use of the spell Gravity on notorious monsters will result in the monster slowly building up a resistance to the magic's effect. This resistance wears off with time."

ah, I always had the idea that grav/sleep were put in similar resistance categories, guess not.

[Medivac]

I thought that update only effected Ouryu, before he could be slept without ever using ES, after the update you needed ES.

and he "cant be slept while in the air"
thats bs ive seen it done more than once

[RKenshin]

I've landed sleep on flying Wyrms, as have other BLMs lol.

Only problem is they wake up almost instantly, Ouryu was always that way too no?

[Delekii]

Yes.. when people say you cant sleep dragons in the air, they just mean that it will instantly wake hence wasting the sleep.