Warrior: Eating meat how/when?

[Zilong]

Pimped thieves gone WAR win for legpieces for WS

Sad truth.

WAR can wear Dragon Subligar now?

right,right hecatomb

[RKenshin]

And Ruk what do you normally WS in on WAR? The only place I can break a 1k average is in the mire... in thickets it's usually in the 800s (barring things like a 2 BRD PT or pulling mostly Puks).

Variations of the following:

Main: Jugg/Rid (also mess around with Jugg/Man occasionally)
Head: Hecatomb
Neck: Soil
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Triumph/Vampire (at night)
Body: Adaman
Hands: Alkyoneus
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars'
Back: Forager's
Waist: Potent or Warwolf
Legs: AF2 or Byakko's
Feet: Hecatomb

Merits are 3/3 Bers/Agg, 4 DA, 3 WC, and everything else is capped for normal traits.

Relooked over parses to make sure my numbers were accurate, and yeah... With meat my average range is 950 to 1100, and with sushi it's 850 to 950. All averages are for a BRD PT using March/Minuet in thickets fighting about an even balance of puks, mamools, and skoffins. Stats derived from ~30 parses, with three being 2 BRD PTs.

[Mysterio]

And Ruk what do you normally WS in on WAR? The only place I can break a 1k average is in the mire... in thickets it's usually in the 800s (barring things like a 2 BRD PT or pulling mostly Puks).

Variations of the following:

Main: Jugg/Rid (also mess around with Jugg/Man occasionally)
Head: Hecatomb
Neck: Soil
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Triumph/Vampire (at night)
Body: Adaman
Hands: Alkyoneus
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars'
Back: Forager's
Waist: Potent or Warwolf
Legs: AF2 or Byakko's
Feet: Hecatomb

Merits are 3/3 Bers/Agg and 4 DA, 3 WC, and everything else is capped for normal traits.

Juggernaut/Ridill yields more consistent average WS than Maneater/Ridill?

Seems quite plausable, pretty sure thats what you're implying(not 100%).

[RKenshin]

I've long given up arguing over Jugg vs Maneater lol..

As I've said before all my results (when not using meat) have been in favor of Jugg, in both tests against myself and tests against fellow WARs I often PT with that have identical gear/merits. Unless using meat Jugg always came out ahead, but if you are using meat and you don't have a lot of acc in your TP/WS sets then Maneater becomes more viable. Otherwise, Jugg without a doubt.

But yeah, I'm still a strong believer for Jugg over everything else in main for higher DoT and WS damage. Only exception being if you're using meat, but personally I often still stuck with Jugg even then unless I find my accuracy is lower than normal.

[Mysterio]

I read ya.

I obviously missed out on your previous arguements over the 2 axes.

I must concur, what RKenshin says, goes.

In Civil War, I'm with RKenshin. lol

[RKenshin]

lol.. I didn't mean that towards you, I just meant in general.

It came up in around 3-4 threads on BG along with a few on KI, and I ended up getting dragged into them all somehow. Last one I remember it happening on is the meat/sushi debate on the advanced forum.

EDIT: Also.. Karinastar, what's your current TP/WS gear like? I'm curious what balances of acc you use.

[Karinastar]

And Ruk what do you normally WS in on WAR? The only place I can break a 1k average is in the mire... in thickets it's usually in the 800s (barring things like a 2 BRD PT or pulling mostly Puks).

Variations of the following:

Main: Jugg/Rid (also mess around with Jugg/Man occasionally)
Head: Hecatomb
Neck: Soil
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Triumph/Vampire (at night)
Body: Adaman
Hands: Alkyoneus
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars'
Back: Forager's
Waist: Potent or Warwolf
Legs: AF2 or Byakko's
Feet: Hecatomb

Merits are 3/3 Bers/Agg, 4 DA, 3 WC, and everything else is capped for normal traits.

Hm.... not all that much different from what I use... I lack a few pieces that you have (looks like I'm about 9ish STR off from you not counting race difference) but I can't imagine it'd be enough to make a 100 point+ difference in averages, especially considering I have my combat merits set for WAR also.

Could be the DA merits, I have mine set to Berserk/Aggressor, fewer DAs on WSes could lower my average too.

I do use Joyeuse offhand (Ridill-less gimp ><), though I don't think WSes would be that much different from an offhand Ridill...

Guess it's time to tweak things some. o_O

EDIT: Depends what food I'm using. If I'm using meat I'll sometimes use Life Belt for WSes and stick with the STR rings. I also use Heca hands on WS but that's just a personal preference of mine.

For TP I usually use

Main: Maneater
Sub: Joyeuse
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Turban
Neck: PCC
Ear1: Assault (Need brutal >_<)
Ear2: Suppa
Body: Haub
Hands: Dusk
Rings: Snipers x2
Back: Forager's
Waist: Lifebelt/Potent Belt
Legs: Byakko's
Feet: Unicorn

For WSes I swap gear around a fair bit depending on my acc (I have like 4 WS macros haha), I usually carry STR rings and Sniper's, and an ACC belt and Warwolf. I use Heca cap/hands/feet on WS always though. With Sushi I'll go all out STR, and with meat I'll usually use Potent/Lifebelt on the Waist over Warwolf. If I'm using meat in thickets, I'll WS in Sniper's Rings also on the Mamools.

[RKenshin]

Oh, forgot my ammo slot.

I use Fire Bomblet for TP/WS in meat builds, otherwise I use a Bomb Core most often... I've also been sticking Fire Bomblet on WS even when using sushi more often recently.

Brutal actually makes a big difference too IMO, so that'll help a considerable amount once you get one.

[Karinastar]

Been contemplating the Fire Bomblet as like you said it would really help meat build... but on my server they're going for 6 mil and most of my gil is going towards NIN atm (I'll probably play mostly NIN once I get 75 as I think barring Ridill I can get better performance out of it). Maybe I'll look into camping the NM, it would be a handy item for my NIN as well.

[RKenshin]

I camped mine (along with like 10 others lol)... Honestly, I wouldn't pay the price tag for it if I didn't get it for free. It's a great piece sure, but a piece of situational gear is not worth that price in this economy. They're like 5m on my server as well, and it's owned by a group of gilsellers now.

[Jg]

In short, here are the rules I think work for most builds like yours.

-Dont eat meat against mamools, or colibri in the new camp unless you have 2 bards (1 madrigal as RK said). When your accuracy falls around 7-10% from using sushi vs. using meat, the benefit of meat dissapears from what I've tested from an overall damage point of view.

-Always eat meat in places like mire.

-If you are lucky enough to get 2 bards that will go to mamook still, I firmly believe that going with 2 min, 1 march, 1 madrigal and having all melee eat meat is the best way to go.

As far as your question about what can you do in the colibri camp to improve your accuracy? Without a bard singing 1 madrigal, or you shelling out lots of money to keep eating sole sushi, there isnt much you can do without gimping your haste setup. The other day I parsed at that camp with no madrigal while eating meat at 80% accuracy, with madrigal I'm normally at 90%. I'm at 292 axe skill, +20% haste and ~+45 accuracy. Basically nothing else I can use to get more accuracy, colibri are just evasive if you dont have madrigal.

[SassiAsura]

And Ruk what do you normally WS in on WAR? The only place I can break a 1k average is in the mire... in thickets it's usually in the 800s (barring things like a 2 BRD PT or pulling mostly Puks).

Variations of the following:

Main: Jugg/Rid (also mess around with Jugg/Man occasionally)
Head: Hecatomb
Neck: Soil
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Triumph/Vampire (at night)
Body: Adaman
Hands: Alkyoneus
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars'
Back: Forager's
Waist: Potent or Warwolf
Legs: AF2 or Byakko's
Feet: Hecatomb

Merits are 3/3 Bers/Agg, 4 DA, 3 WC, and everything else is capped for normal traits.

Relooked over parses to make sure my numbers were accurate, and yeah... With meat my average range is 950 to 1100, and with sushi it's 850 to 950. All averages are for a BRD PT using March/Minuet in thickets fighting about an even balance of puks, mamools, and skoffins. Stats derived from ~30 parses, with three being 2 BRD PTs.

You get decent ws accuracy with this setup?

[Tachys]

I eat meat in mamools and my accuracy is fine against most of the mobs.

Problem is that isn't good enough, yes my accuracy is just fine until I face a nin then it just becomes a wiff fest that equals broken chain.

Recently what I have done is to save aggressor for the high evasion mobs. It seems to work pretty good. Haven't really compared this to sushi though

Of course it becomes a problem if there is more then one high evasion mob in the area and aggressor isn't ready.

I hate to think that I am using sushi just for one or two mobs but in the end that might be the correct choice.

[XxSlusherxx]

I used to eat meat pretty much anywhere but north Mamool. Biggest diffrence from what you see here, is I started using Unicorn cap on WS, otherwise it's pretty simalar to the other seups you see.

[RKenshin]

And Ruk what do you normally WS in on WAR? The only place I can break a 1k average is in the mire... in thickets it's usually in the 800s (barring things like a 2 BRD PT or pulling mostly Puks).

Variations of the following:

Main: Jugg/Rid (also mess around with Jugg/Man occasionally)
Head: Hecatomb
Neck: Soil
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Triumph/Vampire (at night)
Body: Adaman
Hands: Alkyoneus
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars'
Back: Forager's
Waist: Potent or Warwolf
Legs: AF2 or Byakko's
Feet: Hecatomb

Merits are 3/3 Bers/Agg, 4 DA, 3 WC, and everything else is capped for normal traits.

Relooked over parses to make sure my numbers were accurate, and yeah... With meat my average range is 950 to 1100, and with sushi it's 850 to 950. All averages are for a BRD PT using March/Minuet in thickets fighting about an even balance of puks, mamools, and skoffins. Stats derived from ~30 parses, with three being 2 BRD PTs.

You get decent ws accuracy with this setup?

Another correction, I use Warrior's Stone 100% of the time for WS.*

I just got that recently over the last month and forgot to update my macros, but yeah all together my WS hit-rate is usually just about as good as it gets as far as keeping a balance of STR/att and acc. I have a few random combat merits, along with reduced bers/agg, and then fire bomblet, adaman hauberk, warrior's stone, mars' ring, and soil gorget (sometimes byakko's too), and all together it's been enough acc to land hits consistantly.

It's something like 44 acc (51.5 with byakkos) not counting the accuracy increase from gorgets, which is pretty considerable in itself. All together even in a situation I use meat my hit-rate is fine... And you can also add on another 5 acc from Maneater, assuming I feel it's necessary. Typically though I stick with Jugg and AF2 legs.

[Heian]

Just try swapping in Life Belt for TP/WS. Its a place where you can get +10Acc with out losing too much on the waist slot. Granted you are giving up 4~6 haste but with haste and or march its not noticable.

[SassiAsura]

I was probably going to get a potent belt since I currently don't have a dynamis LS and very few seem to do CoP anyways. My WS gear is far from stellar right now though. (Not a single piece of hecatomb, passed to Thf mostly)

[Scorp]

So I get a pt invite in Mire, I pop my hedgehog pie and proceed to merit. 92% Acc in a full haste build, sword off hand.

Mire becomes overcrowded so we move to thickets, I am on a 3hr so left of my food due to sanction meal extension. Brd is doing min or min/march as per usual.

At one stage my parse was showing 70% accuracy, now I know i have to allow for wind wall, flash and warm up killing my acc % but that was excessive.

It took o hat, hauby, p charm dual snipers, life belt and adaman feet (lol) to reach over 80% acc. Based on this I don't see how it is even comparable.

My ws gear blows but for what its worth I averaged 770 rampages throughout, obviously highs on puks lows on mamool.

[Kaylia]

I don't think I would be the only one to tell you to WS in Byakko's for rampage, throw out the hose :/

+15 DEX is going to increase your rampage crits (+15 is alot in the crit department.. for example I think gernome tested it on his LJ) and it is in fact +/- 7.5~ ACC.

Didn't Kaylia prove it not to be?

I never said such thing for rampage. I'm not even sure how I could possibly check crit rate for rampage 15dex is about 1% crit rate on xp mobs, but I cant say anything about rampage crit hate. Is it possible that modifier is multiplied during WS, making it higher than 1%? I supose it's not impossible, but it would be a guess.

If you were talking about acc, 15 = 7-8acc (7.5). Test was done by many people and it works, but people already reconfirmed it in this thread.


Most gear setup people posted here are good, but generally, I'm looking at 2 factor before deciding which gear I use.

1) What kind of mobs you're fighting. If there a large gap between their evasion (wyvern, mamool, and puk are far from each other) , I eat sushi to keep result as constant as possible. If they are all weak, I eat meat (usually bison cause I'm cheap). On collibri, I always eat cheap meatkabob


2) Second thing I look at Keep acc around 91-95%. If you can't do it through gear, eat sushi. If you can, go with meat and use as much haste/acc you can. For WS, the only thing I change is warwolf belt/potent belt depending of my acc. I never had trouble landing full rampage in xp, except with meat on collibri when brd isnt playing acc song.

[SassiAsura]

Yes, I was talking crit rate in general while wearing haidate. I recall a mithra war stating that the improvement was a mere 2% or so. With meat build I suppose the 15dex is more appealing but I've always favored sushi so I've always been macroing in my AFv2 legs.