How to change salvage in 5 minutes of your time

[Nystul]

Yea my big issue is that mages really have no ability to do anything for the first half of many zones. You just stand there helpless for ages. My problem is that I don't see much of a way to fix it without entirely overhauling how it works.

[aurik]

Although I totally agree with the complaint about there being too much dependency on monks...There is as much or more dependency on rdms and brds for 99% of the rest of the game, and people just accept it and have adjusted to it.

It's true to some extent, but for that reason, there is a fair amount of rdm avaible in every shell already. Mnk on the other hand varies more from shell to shell, since they arent required as much endgame.

The only reason why everyone isn't mnk (when practically everyone endgame has either nin, rdm, brd or blm these days) is because for years we have been dependent on these jobs. For Salvage we are dependent on a different job class and people complain. But it's not worse than what we've always had before, just different.

[Keyln]

Speaking as a SMN, I know full well what it means to be boned in cell drops. I'm usually last priority on the list for every cell drop. Magic? Goes to the BRd/RDM/BLM/WHM/DRG first. Job Abilities? Those go to the PLD/WAR/NIN/Everyothermelee. Weapons? Pffft...you're a mage, what do you need weapons for? Oh look, a CHR cell! You can have that.

If I were SE, I would allow two key item cells that act as normal cells when the player goes into Salvage. These two cells can unlock anything any two single cells can unlock, and it'd be available from the same guy I buy my permit off of when I go to Salvage. So, say, a NIN could have JA and Magic unlocked. Or a DD melee could have JA and Weapons unlocked. Or a mage could have magic and Max MP unlocked. That should take some of the randomness out of Salvage.

[Scythiroth]

They just need it more simple.

Having to unlock every single piece of gear and every single stat is really annoying and just requires more time. I know a lot of stats are pointless on some jobs, but getting CHR cells over and over when pretty much 90% of your alliance or party doesn't need them is pretty stupid.

Stat Cell, Armor Cell and Weapon Cell would be awesome.

[Kaylia]

we must be looking at 2 different things since alot of salvage gear surpasses king/cop/omega gear

Depend for what jobs. Most only have 2 good pieces imo, and a 3rd that is on par with something else. However, the kind of improvement in most case is on the same level as a NQ abj/HQ abj, which is something most player won't bother if it takes too much time.

Ares
head: Walahra still win
body: pretty much the same as e.body (inferior for ridill, krakken drk and most end game situation)
hands: Not really good
legs: good WS pieces
boot: Dusk/unicorn is better


Skadi:
Head: Walahra is beter
Body: Homam win
Hands: probably good, dont know thf gears well
Legs: Look good
Feets: run fast gears is always good, 2/4 jobs already had one tho.


Usukane:
Head: Good for mnk with capped haste?
Body: D.body look better for tp
Hands: Better than tiamat kote, but probably not good for tp
Legs: Haidate still win
Feet: Look good for nin


Marduk:
Isn't noble/yinyan robe better? rest is pretty much average imo, unless I'm missing something. Feet is nice for debuff, if whm have to



Morrigan:
It's nice for a m.atk set, but seriously, pudding already die in 3 hits, and you will need elemental skill on most HNM that matters.
Legs are extremly sexy compared to errant for rdm/blm. Feet are hot for rdm.

[aurik]

Fixing your analysis

Usukane:
Head: Better than turban unless you're trying to cap utsusemi recast
Body: Competitive with Togi
Hands: The "worst" piece in the set, only slightly better than Tiamat Kote
Legs: better than haidate unless you're trying to cap utsusemi recast
Feet: best for all jobs except maybe monk (dune boots)

Set bonus: haste may make up for "lost" haste on turban and legs

You value itty bits of haste way too much.

[Kaylia]

Maybe I do, but in most case, it will be barely noticeable on a parser

DEF: 30 STR +5 DEX +5
Attack +10 Haste +3%
vs
DEF: 42 DEX +15 Haste +5%

turn into

12.5atk vs 5acc/2%haste.

Dunno, I would have went with the 2nd on war, its about the same as dusk glove vs e.hands

[aurik]

Maybe I do, but in most case, it will be barely noticeable on a parser

DEF: 30 STR +5 DEX +5
Attack +10 Haste +3%
vs
DEF: 42 DEX +15 Haste +5%

turn into

12.5atk vs 5acc/2%haste.

Dunno, I would have went with the 2nd on war, its about the same as dusk glove vs e.hands

str+5 also bumps up your base damage by 1.25

edit: a more thorough analysis is that I generally value 1 str about the same as 2 attack. So str+5 and 10 attack works out to be as valuable as +20 atk.

Now dusk gloves vs o.kote, people say that the damage between these 2 are relatively the same, o.kote being slightly better for overall dmg, but doesn't have the utsusemi recast bonus so for survivability use the dusk. Thus 15 atk > 3 haste, or ~10 atk > 2 haste. Therefore we have 10 atk vs 5 acc.

Once I have "enough" accuracy to hit a comfortable percentage, I tend to value atk at 2:1 ratio or better -- ie, I like my ochi kote over tiamat kote, my merman earring over minuet earring. Therefore I'd take 10 atk over 5 acc.

[Parz]

It doesn't even really matter, at this point in the game most jobs 'endgame' gear comes from such a vast array of places that it's good, in my opinion, that not every piece of Salvage armor is absolutely better than everything else.

When you look at it that way, there's more great pieces of gear that come from Salvage from any other single activity- Kings, Sky, Sea, Grands, CoP Kings, Limbus, etc.

I guess you could make an argument about Dynamis but seriously. TO say the gear in Salvage 'isn't that good' is basically saying that no gear is 'that good'.

[Nystul]

Skadi:
Head: Walahra is beter
Body: Homam win
Hands: probably good, dont know thf gears well
Legs: Look good
Feets: run fast gears is always good, 2/4 jobs already had one tho.

You're really saying that 5% haste is better than 3% haste, 6att, 6ratt, 4dex, 4agi?

Homam is nice but thf is the only job that can wear both homam and skadi- bst, cor, rng don't have homam as an option, and even if those jobs COULD wear it the only good thing about homam body is +triple attack which doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't already have the trait.

[Lordwafik]

Morrigan:
It's nice for a m.atk set, but seriously, pudding already die in 3 hits, and you will need elemental skill on most HNM that matters.
Legs are extremly sexy compared to errant for rdm/blm. Feet are hot for rdm.

That is a dumb way to look at it, there's more to FFXI than puddings. You can kill anything in this game with current gears, why even bother getting better ? That's the mindset I see here.

Skadi:
Head: Walahra is beter

I hardly use mine outside of recasting utsu, unless I'm in a camp with 0 low eva mobs like Ulegard

Body: Homam win

? lol

* Dexterity +8
* Agility +8
* Charisma +8
* Accuracy +10
* Attack +5
* Ranged Accuracy +10
* Ranged Attack +5
* Evasion -10

Converts to +14 acc, +5 attack (those two alone already make it win), a smidgeon increase in crit rate. Racc +10 is nice for bolt thief, pahluwan is already there though, only downside to this is eva-10. The only thing homam body has going for it is the +triple attack rate, which I'll never see so i dont care >_> I don't really wanna comment on the +triple enhancement on the body, I don't know how noticable it is due to the fact I haven't got one. I say they are really close,

Hands: probably good, dont know thf gears well

* Strength +5
* Agility +5
* Attack +10
* Ranged Attack +10

Great, unless you need the acc you stick on war gloves, or you need haste in which you stick on dusk/homam

Legs: Look good

Yep better than homam

Feets: run fast gears is always good, 2/4 jobs already had one tho.

Yes yes, but once again, don't stop at just the +movement, there's other stats on the shoes including acc and STR which help for TP'ing in (and to some point WS'ing). Great for people/jobs who can't get homam

[divisortheory]

Personally i almost never use anything but Homam Body and Turban, and I don't see anything changing that. Haste+5% is just too fucking good, and the Triple Attack rate is 2.5% on the body, which makes it more or less equivalent to a brutal earring. i.e. number of extra swings from brutal earring = number of extra swings from homam body.

If/when I get skadi, the only pieces I think i'll use are the legs and feet.

[Not Kuno]

Morrigan:
It's nice for a m.atk set, but seriously, pudding already die in 3 hits, and you will need elemental skill on most HNM that matters.

For most HNM that matter BLM arn't used as dmg. Only thing I use my ele set for is Ouryu and Bahamut. Wow 2 not-so-often events make this set complete shit. How about that.

[Celebrindor]

First off, I completely agree with an earlier post that found the original wording released by SE stating that "adventurers will enter with as many as 20 restrictions placed upon them......". I think that there might be something to this statement that the original intent was to randomly assign restrictions to characters, not give every single participant all restrictions. That being said, when Salvage was released and this is how it came out, SE hasn't rushed to "fix" it, assuming that SE didn't intend for all restrictions to be placed on everyone.

I dropped a line, and basically made this point. Randomly generate 15 restrictions on players. You might end up with a WAR with magic, a BRD with weapons, and a RDM with /jas- oh well luck of the draw. Or you might get that WAR his weapons and a WHM with magic...it could be annoying, but a helluva lot better than the current system.

This wouldn't eliminate the desire for MNKs- a MNK is still going to be a 100% guarantee to deliver damage regardless of how the restrictions work out.

As for droprates- I agree we still have a lot to learn about Salvage in order to max out droprates,etc. Just like we had with dynamis/limbus. The big difference? We had the tools to figure these things out in Dynamis/limbus....some runs we simply do not in Salvage. A run where we learn something is never a waste at this stage- but there are runs where you can't even get that opportunity in Salvage, and that to me is annoying. I honestly feel that if the mechanics of fighting/etc through salvage were altered so that we could do SOMETHING in the zone, people would complain less about the lack of droprates.

I would like to see the mats for the craftable items drop in salvage...not the items themselves but the mats. Similar to craftable items that currently drop in dynamis (wootz ore, relic iron, etc). These items don't drop at incredible rates in dynamis now, so I'm not expecting SE to suddenly add 15 khroma ores and 14 oric. ores to drop in each zone, but a couple here and there...again to make people feel like SOMETHING was accomplished even in a run with few to no armor drops.

Finally, on the functionality of the sets: I can only speak on the Morrigan's set as its the only set I desire based on my job(s), and from a RDM's perspective, there is a ton to love.

Head is worthless for most,

body is a godsend....a functional auto-refresh body piece that has positive casting stats on it rather than just MP and MDB.

Hands are actually a great piece- our nukes can definitely benefit the reliability that +5 macc adds to these over Zenith mitts- and they are finally a piece where its easier to get Macc than +enfeebling and its worth it.

Legs are phenomenal for many things, however for enfeebling I'll still take nashira,

and feet are a sune-ate for RDMs....MND junkies rejoice!

Its meant to be hard- fine. But give us the opportunity to realistically learn more about these zones and how to best approach them....we're not asking for a watered down solution, but merely a fair shake at them, especially considering the AP cost.

[miokomioko]

I vote to allow "Assault: _____" gears to work inside Salvage :o

[Lordender]

For most HNM that matter BLM arn't used as dmg. Only thing I use my ele set for is Ouryu and Bahamut. Wow 2 not-so-often events make this set complete shit. How about that.

same 2 events i only break out ele gear for the entire time, i would totally use morrigan robe full time if i was fortunate enough to get it.

[Imitarate]

I'd like to point out that only half of the ares jobs can use e.abj gear. lolDRG all you like, those are insane stats compared to what we get (assault jerkin, pahluwan, barone[snicker], homam?), and it's the only piece that gives drg/mage auto-refresh -- definitely going to be a huge benefit to drg soloing. It's also very good for paladin, though I do admit that koenig is better for serious bloodtanking. The auto-refresh should be a great boon for hate.

As for the head and the feet, I don't use haste gear on drg (mostly because of the lack of much of it -- don't have any homam), so the feet are incredibly good (better than e.feet and amir) and the head is better than anything I can think of. Wahlara is great and all, but if you're looking for accuracy and attack, the head is really good.

The morrigan set has varying utility; some of it is good for blm, some for rdm, some for blu. I, at least, want the hands very much for blue mage, and would use them on red mage almost certainly (though yigit hands might be better). I would rather get morrigan's robe than a.body, for sure. Errant becomes resting macro gear.

Marduk's is somewhat lackluster. I don't think there's anything there that can't be replicated by something easier to get (buy noble's, camp YY), though it might be nice for bards who don't have a.body (I can't remember if bards can use a.body, though).

A few thieves I know drool over skadi body, and skadi feet are a nice package of goodies. I'm not really sure about the rest, though I know a couple of corsairs who are very interested in it.

Usukane feet is crazy insane good! Though you'd still want something with haste when utsu recast is all-important, there are three other jobs that can use usukane; the enmity might not be super-beneficial for sam mnk or pup, but it shouldn't make or break the piece, considering the other stats.

I'm still doubtful about the set bonuses. I have been, thusfar, extremely unimpressed by assault gear set bonuses, and I can imagine ares set giving +3% double attack and usukane 4% haste... However, many of the individual pieces are delicious, especially when viewed as a non-competition-prereq'd alternative to gear that, despite some views, not everybody has.

To contribute a bit to the main focus of this thread, I am thusfar in agreement... There isn't enough incentive here. Once the new-and-shiny has worn off, there's very little to keep people going. You need to bleed money for RR, potions, and food. 2k AP every time. XP costs from dying. Planning time. In return, a couple of people might walk out with a piece of gear that's level 15. One or two lucky people might, on occasion, walk out with a 25 or 35 piece.

Meanwhile, mages are bored and frustrated, tanks spend the first half of the session trying to gather the gear, JAs, and magic to hold hate without dying, and non-mnk melee are wishing they'd leveled monk. I go as drg, and while there are some benefits to it, my wyvern is NOT a DD. It is a supplement to my DoT, which, when punching at something with 0 hand to hand skill, means nothing. Even warriors seem to have trouble with it, and they have B hand to hand skill.

Maybe some coinage that can be vouched back at the commission's building to purchase AP gear with -- 10 salvage coins for 1k off your yigit feet, or something like that. This would give people who are just trying to farm gear and don't -do- assault much (silly people, no static!) incentive to spend their AP on Salvage. The idea of craftable materials that can be made into the requirements for the Salvage gear is interesting, though the drop rate couldn't be too high without seriously impacting the market and creating a glut.

[Kaylia]

str+5 also bumps up your base damage by 1.25

edit: a more thorough analysis is that I generally value 1 str about the same as 2 attack. So str+5 and 10 attack works out to be as valuable as +20 atk.

Now dusk gloves vs o.kote, people say that the damage between these 2 are relatively the same, o.kote being slightly better for overall dmg, but doesn't have the utsusemi recast bonus so for survivability use the dusk. Thus 15 atk > 3 haste, or ~10 atk > 2 haste. Therefore we have 10 atk vs 5 acc.

Once I have "enough" accuracy to hit a comfortable percentage, I tend to value atk at 2:1 ratio or better -- ie, I like my ochi kote over tiamat kote, my merman earring over minuet earring. Therefore I'd take 10 atk over 5 acc.

I didnt consider the base dmg increase for the same reason I didnt consider critical hit increase, they are close to each other (1.25 base dmg vs 0.70-0.80crit rate). That's why I simplified it to 12atk vs 5acc/2% haste only.

Anyway, you can't just brush off the acc bonus because in most situation, you dont have 95% acc. Well, I don't have that on warrior unless I'm messing around with weak mobs in place like assault, or eat sushi in xp (which is not what I'm eating against collibri). I understand mnk have higher base skill and that mnk and war are different, but I havent seen many mnk with higher acc than warrior.


Well, I didn't want to turn this thread into a debate if the gears worth it or not. There is some pretty sweet pieces I would like to have, I would even go for the complete set if those pieces were more common, but at the rate thing are dropping, it won't happen anytime soon (and by this I mean the next 2 years for me).

Getting the whole 3 sets for me would take around 1 years at a rate of one full pieces every 3 weeks. Consider you are 18, who probably have an average of 2-3 sets they could lot and you are stuck in that place forever (with people leaving and leveling new jobs, it could get even worse). This is almost worse than aery, even if we will never cap on ridill

When you look at it that way, there's more great pieces of gear that come from Salvage from any other single activity- Kings, Sky, Sea, Grands, CoP Kings, Limbus, etc.

4/5piece of BLM AF1+1 would be on me any time of the day. 1/5 for warrior.
Kings/sky? I carry the whole n.set around minus body, only have e.body worthwhile for e.set. D.set has 3 good pieces.

On blm, I would carry 2 pieces of Marduk set probably (well, depend of set bonus). On war, I would also carry 2pieces (legs and head). One would be used as ws macro, other would be very situational.

It's a nice addition, but I dont think it really has more good gears than other event. Ironically, sea has 19-20 great pieces of gears, that's probably more than salvage Too bad drop rate is even worse.

Anyway, I dont understand why people are justifying salvage lame drop rate, when they bitch about sea droprate. There is no reason for it to be so rare in both case.

You're really saying that 5% haste is better than 3% haste, 6att, 6ratt, 4dex, 4agi?

Homam is nice but thf is the only job that can wear both homam and skadi- bst, cor, rng don't have homam as an option, and even if those jobs COULD wear it the only good thing about homam body is +triple attack which doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't already have the trait.

As thf, I would still wears Walahra over that, and macro n.head for SaTa/ws. 2%haste vs 2acc/6attack. I dunno what head alternative there is to land sleep/blood/acid bolt when you solo, but for melee, the old combo sounded better.

For rng, I was under the impression 6str on wyvern hat would be better for ranged WS, and af1+1 would be better for normal range hits. correct me if I'm wrong.


Triple would actually do more if you don't have the trait (going from 100hits to 106hits is a bigger increase than going from 120 to 126). Anyway, that's an increase of 6% in dmg and tp for, a little less for thf.

If we want to talk about rare gear, kyudogi+1 is slightly better for ranged attack, but I supose Skadi's cuirass would win in xp pt since you melee more.


Dunno why everyone take the post so seriously, I wrote it in 3min to explain why I think Salvage gears isn't "overpowered" and it shouldnt be used as argument to explain its rarity. There is about 1 excellent pieces per job, one that is on par with something else, and 1 macro gears. That's not a problem for me, problem is just the drop rate of those items

[Kaylia]

That is a dumb way to look at it, there's more to FFXI than puddings. You can kill anything in this game with current gears, why even bother getting better ? That's the mindset I see here.

That's where I disagree, because you missed my point I think. I can't carry at the moment an infinite amount of situational BLM gears, and I've to stick with a few "all purpose" gears (elemental set, soloing set, hmp, enfeebling, and dark is what I carry atm). The difference in dmg between our current nuking setup and this one is really small, and you are losing a ton of useful buff (-enm, some hmp, elemental skil). There is more than pudding, but it's what you are going to kill the most probably outside endgame situation, and I can't think of many place where my additional dmg would make a difference, especially at the cost of enmity/accuracy/hmp gears.


Robe and slops are awesome parts. Slops are better than anything else, and robe is basically a genie weskit with refresh (but slightly less magic acc). Hands doesnt really have its place between zenith and af1, pigaches are rdm only and coronal isn't better than af1+1 and af2.

* Dexterity +8
* Agility +8
* Charisma +8
* Accuracy +10
* Attack +5
* Ranged Accuracy +10
* Ranged Attack +5
* Evasion -10

Converts to +14 acc, +5 attack (those two alone already make it win), a smidgeon increase in crit rate. Racc +10 is nice for bolt thief, pahluwan is already there though, only downside to this is eva-10. The only thing homam body has going for it is the +triple attack rate, which I'll never see so i dont care >_> I don't really wanna comment on the +triple enhancement on the body, I don't know how noticable it is due to the fact I haven't got one. I say they are really close,

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here

For melee :
14acc/5atk/0.6crit rate vs 15acc/3% triple.

I personally would go with Homam because 3% triple attack > -1acc,5atk,0.6crit, but meh.

For ranged attack:
I've absolutely no clue to tell the truth, I supose it's the best and it could be macroed, however, I rarely see THF use ranged attack other than when they are soloing, and -10evasion on the body will hurt you in that situation.

It's a pretty good all purpose gears for sure, so if you are running out of space, I guess I can agree. I'm not certain thf can reach 60/60 as easily as mage job tho, so they might prefer to stick with a bunch of macro gears.

Yes yes, but once again, don't stop at just the +movement, there's other stats on the shoes including acc and STR which help for TP'ing in (and to some point WS'ing). Great for people/jobs who can't get homam

Well, I don't know what shoes thieves have access to, that's why I stopped at the movement speed. I didnt see any great stats, so i thought there would have been something better for tp'ing, and n.gears for WS.


Skadi set and mnk/nin/sam imo are the best two in overall. War/drk/pld set and whm/brd set kinda suck compared to what exist already (war set is probably decent for drg tho), and Morrigan is between both.

Personally i almost never use anything but Homam Body and Turban, and I don't see anything changing that. Haste+5% is just too fucking good, and the Triple Attack rate is 2.5% on the body, which makes it more or less equivalent to a brutal earring. i.e. number of extra swings from brutal earring = number of extra swings from homam body.

I was certain it was 3% <_> Oh well, I stand corrected in my above post then. Well, doesnt change my opinion about gears selection, just the number

For most HNM that matter BLM arn't used as dmg. Only thing I use my ele set for is Ouryu and Bahamut. Wow 2 not-so-often events make this set complete shit. How about that.

We rarely have 18 people for wyrm, so my blm is nuking for jorm/tiamat too. Even for "easy" stuff like faf, I find myself using af1 hands more than zenith, it seems to help resist a lot (no, I'm not gimped, and yes, I've capped elemental skill).

Assuming I'm not war at other NM like khimerai/cerberus, I'm not gonna nuke with m.atk gears either. For the rest, I'm usually going war. I would like to add salvage NM, but I'm generally half naked, if not entirely naked, so gears is kinda pointless.


Anyway, like I said previously, body/legs are awesome pieces that would be equiped full time. Other 3 aren't good, and unless the set m.atk bonus is huge, they are gonna stay in my storage in favor of gears with better hmp/mp/better acc for the average HNM situation

[Lordwafik]

Dunno why everyone take the post so seriously, I wrote it in 3min to explain why I think Salvage gears isn't "overpowered" and it shouldnt be used as argument to explain its rarity. There is about 1 excellent pieces per job, one that is on par with something else, and 1 macro gears. That's not a problem for me, problem is just the drop rate of those items

Because you're stating biased opinions as facts, saying things like "I carry too much blm gear around" as a reason to bash morrigan, that's like saying "I carry a cell phone, a camera, and an mp3 player around, I don't need one of those new phones".


Nobody's saying the gear is overpowered, FFXI has no overpowered gear, probably the only thing that comes remotely close to overpowered is Aegis, but we are saying it is better than previous gears around us.