30 Sec Baha v2 (didnt see this in the other thread)

[RKenshin]

I fell asleep ... Catchin up to do.

Cover, Invincible ring any bells?

I assumed cover was out of the question, because I don't know how you're going to fit 12 kraken DRKs (as you said) along with BRDs for them, and then also have 12 PLDs to Cover all of them to make sure no one dies. I understand 12 PLDs isn't necessary, but even just 3 Covers would be risky as far as making sure no DRKs die. My whole point was just that the DRKs would be very vulnerable to death, and since you can't cover all of them I don't think that statement is all too inaccurate.

Covering the DRKs with the best gear wouldn't even be 100% efficient in this situation, since regardless of gear a Kraken DRK's output largely depends on their luck with swings. I think it's also safe to assume that most of your DRKs would have to be really good, putting their damage even closer.

Then, Invincible won't last more than a few seconds against an army of kraken DRKs, as was already said.

Have you ever actually seen kraken drk on JoL? I'm pretty sure all our drks were averaging well over 200dmg/swing on JoL. <------ AV as well...

And the thing with CORs we are practicing more. Hopefully it won't have to rely on COR rolls but if so, so be it.

The thing about drk and cover... if you can't understand how that situation would work then I'm not surprised you disagree with the plan.

Well, at several points in this post I've referenced numbers I've had as a Kraken DRK and results. Yes, I am a Kraken DRK. I've been 75 for a little over half a year now, and had my own kraken club for around 2 years. I'd like to think I have close to the best gear for it too, with my max damage per hit being ~250.

No need to get offensive though, you're completely misunderstanding what I was trying to say. I'm saying that on mobs that you hit for 0 with the kraken, blood weapon will not help you recover HP. A post earlier said that a Kraken DRK using BW could get HP faster than AV could damage them, and I explained why that's false.

Basically, when you're hitting for 0 with Kraken but dealing 200 damage with help from Souleater, then 200 of your HP is taken. With BW active, you'll recover that 200 HP back. Each hit, you're only recovering the damage that you hit for, which is the exact damage that's being drained from your HP. I'm basically saying that if you engage a Kraken DRK at 1k HP when they have 2k HP max, their HP isn't going to fill up at the speed of light, it's going to stay at about 1k. BW can't counter the damage you take as a DRK when your kraken hits for 0, which has been what I was trying to say from the start.

And yes, I don't understand how your DRK and Cover strategy will work when, as you said, you're going to have 12 spots in the alliance dedicated to DRKs. With at least 3 BRDs, and 3 CORs to refresh 2 hours, I don't understand how you're going to keep them all alive with just Cover in mind? If you use less than 12 DRKs at a time then you're being unspecific because it was implied you would use 12 at a time to kill it ASAP, and in the case you use less you'd also have significantly less damage output.

I thought it was almost certain that AV has 100k hp, based on some old Benediction screenshots ?

In the old screen shots, the Benediction values showed his max HP to be significantly higher when he used Benediction early in a fight as opposed to much later in a fight.

I'm sure people must still remember that a long time theory was that either killing Wynavs lowered his max HP, or that his regen really wasn't a Regen, and it was just his max HP getting lower over time.

In either case, if I remember correctly his max HP initially was about 175k from an early Benediction. Then after 1-2 hours of messing around his value was shown to be about 120k.

Sea's results also support what I said, and supports that perhaps my parses weren't off by much damage. Of course regen would be a large amount, but either way it'd have significantly more than 100k HP.

Oh and also I'd like to add something that may create unnecessary drama but I feel needs to be said. Just because a person has a fully upgraded relic weapon and writes about his experiences in FF in a journal doesn't make him God.

Apathy has done all that jazz in rhykenshin's (sp?) live journal. We do it daily. And for the record Apathy has a relic holder who is actually mentally handicapped - go figure.

Hey, how about we keept his debate mature, ok? I didn't make a single personal attack on you or your linkshell, and whether or not people support me is irrelvent to anything I have to say and doesn't count for my personal opinions.

This isn't a "MY LS IS BETTER THAN YOURS" war, and this isn't a "I KNOW STUFF BECAUES I HAVE RELLIZX" war, I never brought any of those aspects into account and there's no reason to.

All of my responses have just been debates on how it could work, none of my posts are aggressive or insulting towards you or your LS in any way. I'm not trying to discredit anything you do or anything like that, I'm just debating my point of view. If anything I'm trying to help in the regard that I'm providing information from my personal experiences to put together with your information.

If you really want to win then there's no harm in taking into account the opinions and experiences of other people rather than just your own (they don't even have to be mine), debating the semantics is perfectly fine, but bringing this down to personal insults isn't.

It's been used on CoP bosses since just weeks after it was released, but for the most part it's overkill on those bosses since their HP tends to be low. The Safehold boss is just about 100% useless and no one really cares about that anyway, it's nothing more than a title sadly.

Oh, I was sure that it's been used on them, I was just curious if more of the newer content has meaningful counter-KC features such as stun resistance and AE disables or if it really hasn't mattered at all. Just wanted to clear that up.

Sorry my mistake, I was unclear lol... But that post wasn't actually directed at you.

[Cubana]

Or...
am I a douchebag because I won't take kindly to bandwagon riding idiots like you who thinks that just because someone dear to BG's forums is considered a "legend," he can't be wrong.

I could be wrong, but the original point was most likely that Ruk has proven repeatedly, at the very least to this forum community, that he knows what he's talking about and it looks rather silly when some arrogant new person tries to argue with him without anything backing you up aside from a really vague outline of a "strat".

New person... you have got to be kidding me. I was one of the leaders of that Vrtra kill. I'm not new to this game, I'm not new to these forums, and I don't bow down to someone because he is God to you. So this "vague outline of a strat" was similar to the Vrtra strat we used to take it down.

I don't think some of you understand the scope of a kill like Vrtra, the way we did it. One, because you haven't witnessed the intensity of a such a battle and two, because you don't know how difficult what we accomplished is.

If we had posted our ideas of Vrtra before we killed it we would have been victim to similar rants of "you will fail because x y z, and because our God said so."

Anyway, whatever. I'm done. It's too much nonsense already.
Peace.

[Ryko]

So you bring up an arbitrary irrelevant point questioning someone in an attempt to debunk them when they point out your idea isnt pragmatic, even with your shell's accepted capability only to get responded to regarding exactly what you questioned in the first place, then have a hissy fit and stomp off ignoring all of the actual points brought into question.

Good job.

If we had posted our ideas of Vrtra before we killed it we would have been victim to similar rants of "you will fail because x y z, and because our God said so."

So you actually think that a mob that is stunnable and has no dangerous magic or abilities to speak of is remotely comparable to a walking deus ex machina that cannot be interrupted or detered in any way, shape or form possible?

Guess you're right in the fact that it's gonna take an attempt to teach someone something....

[Krandor]

Or...
am I a douchebag because I won't take kindly to bandwagon riding idiots like you who thinks that just because someone dear to BG's forums is considered a "legend," he can't be wrong.

I could be wrong, but the original point was most likely that Ruk has proven repeatedly, at the very least to this forum community, that he knows what he's talking about and it looks rather silly when some arrogant new person tries to argue with him without anything backing you up aside from a really vague outline of a "strat".

New person... you have got to be kidding me. I was one of the leaders of that Vrtra kill. I'm not new to this game, I'm not new to these forums, and I don't bow down to someone because he is God to you. So this "vague outline of a strat" was similar to the Vrtra strat we used to take it down.

I don't think some of you understand the scope of a kill like Vrtra, the way we did it. One, because you haven't witnessed the intensity of a such a battle and two, because you don't know how difficult what we accomplished is.

If we had posted our ideas of Vrtra before we killed it we would have been victim to similar rants of "you will fail because x y z, and because our God said so."

Anyway, whatever. I'm done. It's too much nonsense already.
Peace.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the amazing scope of complexity involved in throwing a bunch of RDM/DRKs and Kraken DRks at a mob.

Yeah you guys tried it first on Vrtra, props for that, but don't walk around like it's some amazing idea that has never before been conceived in the history of man.

[Wenis]

lol this thread went way off course

[Makaveli]

Or...
am I a douchebag because I won't take kindly to bandwagon riding idiots like you who thinks that just because someone dear to BG's forums is considered a "legend," he can't be wrong.

I could be wrong, but the original point was most likely that Ruk has proven repeatedly, at the very least to this forum community, that he knows what he's talking about and it looks rather silly when some arrogant new person tries to argue with him without anything backing you up aside from a really vague outline of a "strat".

New person... you have got to be kidding me. I was one of the leaders of that Vrtra kill. I'm not new to this game, I'm not new to these forums, and I don't bow down to someone because he is God to you. So this "vague outline of a strat" was similar to the Vrtra strat we used to take it down.

I don't think some of you understand the scope of a kill like Vrtra, the way we did it. One, because you haven't witnessed the intensity of a such a battle and two, because you don't know how difficult what we accomplished is.

If we had posted our ideas of Vrtra before we killed it we would have been victim to similar rants of "you will fail because x y z, and because our God said so."

Anyway, whatever. I'm done. It's too much nonsense already.
Peace.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the amazing scope of complexity involved in throwing a bunch of RDM/DRKs and Kraken DRks at a mob.

Yeah you guys tried it first on Vrtra, props for that, but don't walk around like it's some amazing idea that has never before been conceived in the history of man.

k.

Then do it.

BTW Never claimed it was new or amazing

[Ryko]

k.

Then do it.

BTW Never claimed it was new or amazing

Actually the way you guys are talking you keep acting like taking out a mob that had no offensive capability is exactly the same as taking out a mob that can face you the second it looks at you.

[Tyche]

Not anyone can do it, and it obviously doesn't have anythig to do with talent. Resources. Were lucky to have 12 players at a wyrm, much less 12 DRKs with krakens.

[Therin]

No one really believes you could do it to AV, just like no one (or very few) would have believed you could do it to Vrtra. You proved that you COULD do it to Vrtra. Go record a video of you doing it to AV, and I'm sure we'll all eat our words.

Simple as that.

[Leashedragon]

Everything starts with a plan or a strategy. Those plans and strategies are bettered through trial and error.

What you may think doesn't work through your experience might not be someone elses experiences through tests. This stupid bickering and calling each other "douchebag"(insert other random crap that is being said) because someone thinks their idea, which is only an IDEA, because you think it won't work is retarded.

How do you know something doesn't work unless you TRY it. Yes, given some strategies are obviously going to fail due to obvious reasons. But when your reasons are simply an "if this happens" it's not much grounds.

There are so many "if's" in this situation you cannot possibly predict the outcome unless you TRY.

I understand that some may come off with an overbearing attitude, but when you're confident in what you think will work why not? Sometimes you need that attitude to pull things off. Hell, sometimes it's good to have that attitude towards things and sometimes it's not.

It's been talked about through and through and many "what if's" have been as well. The only thing left to do is try.

You think it won't work? Good for you. Atleast we made an effort towards trying to find a way to kill it. You cannot make progress without taking the step towards it.

[Krandor]

Not anyone can do it, and it obviously doesn't have anythig to do with talent. Resources. Were lucky to have 12 players at a wyrm, much less 12 DRKs with krakens.

What I was gonna say but was busy with Ix'drg ; ;

Though change the 12 on Tiamat to 18ish <_<

[Ryko]

I understand that some may come off with an overbearing attitude, but when you're confident in what you think will work why not?

no one's saying not to try, go for it. Just dont be surprised if those "ifs" (and theyre more like "whens", as some shit will be plainly unavoidable. "When" your DRKs pull hate. "When" cover drops. "When" your main and only source of damage dies. "When" AV uses another 2 hour repeatedly...) that are being calmly ignored are the reasons it doesnt work out. You know what they say though, hindsight is 20-20.

[RKenshin]

Everything starts with a plan or a strategy. Those plans and strategies are bettered through trial and error.

What you may think doesn't work through your experience might not be someone elses experiences through tests. This stupid bickering and calling each other "douchebag"(insert other random crap that is being said) because someone thinks their idea, which is only an IDEA, because you think it won't work is retarded.

How do you know something doesn't work unless you TRY it. Yes, given some strategies are obviously going to fail due to obvious reasons. But when your reasons are simply an "if this happens" it's not much grounds.

There are so many "if's" in this situation you cannot possibly predict the outcome unless you TRY.

I understand that some may come off with an overbearing attitude, but when you're confident in what you think will work why not? Sometimes you need that attitude to pull things off. Hell, sometimes it's good to have that attitude towards things and sometimes it's not.

It's been talked about through and through and many "what if's" have been as well. The only thing left to do is try.

You think it won't work? Good for you. Atleast we made an effort towards trying to find a way to kill it. You cannot make progress without taking the step towards it.

This is a forum, and if you bring up a topic here people will discuss it and debate the semantics of it to no end... I agree that bringing this down to a name-calling fest is really uneeded, and I've never been aggressive towards you or anyone in your LS or the LS as a whole in any of my posts. Even though I have been insulted I still haven't retaliated to it.

But, you can't expect to post here and have people not interject their opinions. All along I've been simply debating certain aspects of the strategy from a different point of view, debating my views is fine but all in all you shouldn't get upset... It's all in an attempt to help, and rather than accept it people are getting defensive and then attacking me and others. I'm pretty sure the first swing was towards me as well, so of course some people swing back.

And I believe I and others here have provided reasonable evidence to make what we're trying to say more than an "IDEA." I had people claim that there's no way possible it had more than 100k HP, and yet Sea posted undeniable results that's not the case, which was one of my original points from the start.

And yes I have had a lot of 'tries' with this situation. I'm not just speaking out of my asa, as I said I've been speaking from experience this whole time. In our original AV attempts we had as many as 4 kraken DRKs all going at once with BW on AV in unison with BLMs nuking, and only cut around 12%, and I think that experience is reason enough to debate the aspects I have been. I'm not saying you can't do it or it's absolutely impossible, I'm just giving you different points of view to consider, and if you really want to win I don't get why that's reason to be upset.

[Beckwin]

tbh it all seems based on luck at this point. There's a slim chance that AV does a "convenient" 2hr at a time the entire alliance is healthy and ready, and that nothing goes wrong in the less than 30 seconds they have to take advantage of the 2hr. It's worth a shot simply because nothing else works right now, but even if this does work, I don't see it being easily replicable at all.

I do think that pld can probably have a chance at holding hate though. Sentinel->Invicible->spam the rest of your hate /ja, flash, etc. As long as the drks have maxed Muted Soul merits and the plds stack enmity (take off the koenig).

The Vrtra kill was slick, but you can stun lock it. Honestly there's nothing stopping you guys from doing the same thing to Tiamat (other than logistics/time) or Jorm.

[Kilik]

Have you ever tried kraken drk on genbu? that shit is funny as hell lol

[Beckwin]

It is funny as hell.

[chilicheese]

HEY GUYZ I SAW THIS AWESOME VIDEO WHERE A DRK USES HIS 2HR ON ADAMANTOISES AND KILLS IT IN LIKE 5 SECONDS LOLOL

[Kilik]

HEY GUYZ I SAW THIS AWESOME VIDEO WHERE A DRK USES HIS 2HR ON ADAMANTOISES AND KILLS IT IN LIKE 5 SECONDS LOLOL

try it on genbu and see what happens.. i bet the result wont be the same as adamantoise

[Demetrius*]

yea chili try it.
try it and see.

[Zilong]

HEY GUYZ I SAW THIS AWESOME VIDEO WHERE A DRK USES HIS 2HR ON ADAMANTOISES AND KILLS IT IN LIKE 5 SECONDS LOLOL

HOLY SHIT, I HEARD THEY GONNA NERF YOKODAMA AND TP RETURNS