30 Sec Baha v2 (didnt see this in the other thread)

[Sady]

To me the dialog "AV readies 2hour" implies there might be some AI check before he can use the ability. Perhaps there is some condition which effectively "locks" certain 2hours?

For example, AV can not use Hundred Fists if none of the Monks in range have it up (ie he draws his strengh from his opponents). It almost intuitively makes sence that the way to weaken AV would be to weaken your selves so to speak by burning 2hours prior to engaging. This kinda parallels the duality between virtue and sin (player and mob).

A pretty far fetched theory I know... lol

[Rosencrantz]

Jeryhn is a total fucktard.

Does it really makes you sad to know AV gonna be killed without glitch in a zergrush?

I have yet to see it happen, or see anything come close. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Since mob is bugged, it is the only way to kill it. If it dies, it will be an Apathy's kill and a DRK rush.
Sure it's sad, but if Square can't unglitch a mob released 1 year ago or just give clues to people, they/your pityful elitist community get this.
And isn't Vrtra kill something close? It's not far from 100k hp too, and it's exactly same strat minus CS Stun.

Vrtra and Bahamut also do not spam high damage AoE when being chainstunned.

I think a more interesting question is: Would those Zerg rushes be possible if you can't freely stop Cyclone Wing or Gigaflare?

No. Maybe with Gigaflare but not with Cyclone Wing. Difference is AV doesnt have any horrible AOE besides 2h related things.

[Jeryhn]

Jeryhn is a total fucktard.

Does it really makes you sad to know AV gonna be killed without glitch in a zergrush?

I have yet to see it happen, or see anything come close. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Since mob is bugged, it is the only way to kill it. If it dies, it will be an Apathy's kill and a DRK rush.
Sure it's sad, but if Square can't unglitch a mob released 1 year ago or just give clues to people, they/your pityful elitist community get this.
And isn't Vrtra kill something close? It's not far from 100k hp too, and it's exactly same strat minus CS Stun.

Vrtra and Bahamut also do not spam high damage AoE when being chainstunned.

I think a more interesting question is: Would those Zerg rushes be possible if you can't freely stop Cyclone Wing or Gigaflare?

No. Maybe with Gigaflare but not with Cyclone Wing. Difference is AV doesnt have any horrible AOE besides 2h related things.

Aeroga 4? Explosive Impulse?

[Jiade]

I think a more interesting question is: Would those Zerg rushes be possible if you can't freely stop Cyclone Wing or Gigaflare?

Well, I think the question should be (to compare to what is hoped will happen): would it be possible IF you can zerg it while it is most likely not going to use high damage AOE's?

So many unknowns. People can live through Aeroga IV's (especially if they have 2k'ish HP and it hits a 10+ people). The real issues are Mijin and Meteor in terms of getting smacked down simultaneously.

[Faranim]

Vrtra and Bahav2 are doable because their HP is low (roughly 25k), and their defense/eva is pretty shitty. Vrtra can probably be killed even without Chainspell Stun, since the only bad stuff he uses is Cyclone Wing and Charm (poison pots negate the sleep). This would actually be a fairly good mob to "test" on, try and kill Vrtra without Stun.

AV has crazy high evasion AND defense. Aeroga IV, Meteor, and AoE TP attacks are FAR more devastating from AV. Everything about AV is harder than any other mob in the game. It has more HP, more defense, more attack, faster attack speed, more spells, every 2HR, etc, etc. Just about the only thing that could make AV more annoying was if he could cast stuff like Breakga, Bindga, and Graviga.

[Jeryhn]

I think a more interesting question is: Would those Zerg rushes be possible if you can't freely stop Cyclone Wing or Gigaflare?

Well, I think the question should be (to compare to what is hoped will happen): would it be possible IF you can zerg it while it is most likely not going to use high damage AOE's?

Not a valid comparison, and I'll tell you why.

Megaflare and Gigaflare are event-based attacks. They will happen, and there's no instance where he becomes "less likely" to use the attack. The only thing stopping Bahamut from toasting you is the fact that you're chainstunning him so he can't charge the attack.

Vrtra's attacks are dependent on TP, and the likelihood that it will not use Cyclone Wing (or even better, charm your damage dealers which isn't dependent on TP) is pretty close to zero unless you Chainspell Stun it. The only way Vrtra would be "less likely" to use Cyclone Wing is if you get lucky that the TP attacks it randomly selects when it executes a TP move doesn't ever land on Cyclone Wing.

Yes, people can live through Aeroga and Explosive Impulse, but AV also uses them at will, with no charge time at all, and more importantly, you have to deal with both at the same time.

[Khamsin]

Very Ebon-Jailer-Weapon-Panelish, but has anyone ever tried countering one of AV's Two Hours by using the same Two Hour? I'm still not fully convinced the "glitch" of locked AVs was unintentional design.

Thought that was tried early on. Along with jobs of said 2 hours "engaging" and sometimes engaging with Jailer weapons. Sometimes with 2 hours available to them... sometimes using 2 hours, etc. Think those were among the first "strategies" tried.

With a mob like AV, conserving Two Hours and using them smartly is usually important. I recall seeing people line up WHMs and BLMs with Prudence Rods and try to whack it to try and prevent Benediction and Manafont but to no avail, but don't remember any Monks actively using Hundred Fists when AV does (as in a response to AV using it).

The reason I suggest it is because there are usually reasons why additional text will accompany abilities used by mobs. Mostly to serve as a warning to players. Good example: You can stun Gigaflare if you cast Stun right when you see Bahamut start talking (it'll just use it again anyway, but it gives time to reapply Shell to a tank or a BRD to run out of range or whatever). Or the whole "Countdown" thing that accompanies Citadel Buster.

If AV's Two Hours are event-based attacks, there are probably ways to avoid, prevent, or lock them altogether, suggesting that a locked AVmight still be possible, and is, in fact, the way it was "meant" to be killed.

It's been a while since I last saw AV using 2hours (he hasn't been popping for us lately). However, Gigaflare and Citadel Buster have text accompanying the ability, as you say. AV, on the other hand, just uses his 2hours the same as any NM, does he not? Only, AV uses multiple 2hours in a row, like Chainspell + Manafont or Mighty Strikes + Hundred Fists (was Benediction on the end of this? I forget), etc. There is no flavor text accompanying them, that I can recall.

[Jeryhn]

Stuff.

Check the posts I made before that. AV does have "extra" text when executing Two Hours.

[Jiade]

The difference is the only 2 moves that I can think of that will kill most everyone who is hit (minus some tanks) all at once are Mijin Gakure and Meteor. Meteor (IIRC) is only used when he Manafonts? Maybe he doesn't have the MP to cast Meteor normaly, in any event I don't remember him casting Meteor when he didn't Manafont first.

So if we assume the only two TERRIBLY destructive moves he has are both 2 hour related, as long as we're attacking during another 2 hour mode, then he's "easy." lol That's a gross overstatement, but those are the 2 moves we're most concerned about.

If he can't 2 hour while using another 2 hour, then we have a window of opportunity. That isn't the case for Vrtra or Bahamut because they can use them based on Event X, Y, Z happening (TP for Vrtra or %HP for Bahamut). If there was some other action that had precedence (ie current 2 hour going on) that would prevent those actions, then it would be a fair comparison... maybe. LOL

It's possible his current 2 hour doesn't have precendence over other actions like Mijin Gakure or Manafont or anything. If so, then our theory could suck.

[Lordender]

Difference is AV doesnt have any horrible AOE besides 2h related things.

he can spam impact stream, def down and stun and yes he totally fucked our zerg with 4 of these in like 10 seconds.

[Khamsin]

Stuff.

Check the posts I made before that. AV does have "extra" text when executing Two Hours.

Well, if its worth noting, Dynamis-Buburimu's Apocalyptic Beast still tries to use his 2hours in the chat log, but is ineffective (assuming you disabled it).

[NynJa]

Just about the only thing that could make AV more annoying was if he could cast stuff like Breakga, Bindga, and Graviga.

Im actually kinda suprised AV doesnt cast graviga or silencega, since theyre both wind based.

[Zilong]

No. Maybe with Gigaflare but not with Cyclone Wing. Difference is AV doesnt have any horrible AOE besides 2h related things.

Wow...

Are you fucking retarded or something?

[Jeryhn]

The difference is the only 2 moves that I can think of that will kill most everyone who is hit (minus some tanks) all at once are Mijin Gakure and Meteor. Meteor (IIRC) is only used when he Manafonts?

Manafont and Chainspell.

Maybe he doesn't have the MP to cast Meteor normaly, in any event I don't remember him casting Meteor when he didn't Manafont first.

Meteor costs 1 MP. He definitely has the MP to cast it. The Two Hour use is acting as a trigger for the spell. Prevent the Two Hour, prevent the spell.

Which brings us to...

If he can't 2 hour while using another 2 hour, then we have a window of opportunity. That isn't the case for Vrtra or Bahamut because they can use them based on Event X, Y, Z happening (TP for Vrtra or %HP for Bahamut). If there was some other action that had precedence (ie current 2 hour going on) that would prevent those actions, then it would be a fair comparison... maybe. LOL

This would be a logical conclusion to reach. Unfortunately, it probably won't work out this way for another reason. Assuming AV uses Astral Flow, and assuming AV can't use a self-buff Two Hour on itself for the duration of its 3.5 minutes, what's stopping it from using Mijin to simply wipe you when the timer for Two Hour use comes back up? Mijin doesn't add an effect to AV that would prevent it from using it (like in mob AI where a mob won't cast Frost on you if you already have it on).

The above is also assuming that it can't just use Two Hours at will anyway, going on the idea that using one weaker Two Hour might prevent it from using something stronger.

[safer]

Stuff.

Check the posts I made before that. AV does have "extra" text when executing Two Hours.

Well, if its worth noting, Dynamis-Buburimu's Apocalyptic Beast still tries to use his 2hours in the chat log, but is ineffective (assuming you disabled it).

i think thats along the same point someone brought up earlier... AV's 2hour might be in the chat log to indicate he's not like other mobs, but if you meet certain conditions.. he wont be able to use it.. thus he is 'locked legitimately'

does Apocalyptic Beast have dialog in the .dats for dynamis-bubu?

[Jeryhn]

Stuff.

Check the posts I made before that. AV does have "extra" text when executing Two Hours.

Well, if its worth noting, Dynamis-Buburimu's Apocalyptic Beast still tries to use his 2hours in the chat log, but is ineffective (assuming you disabled it).

Yeah, and the Apocalyptic Beast's abilities can be locked and are on a timer-event basis, with a specific order for them to be used in. We've also seen locked AV's, with no explanation why it locks or unlocks (pre-Bracelet patch).

[Jeryhn]

does Apocalyptic Beast have dialog in the .dats for dynamis-bubu?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, not at home to verify.

[Lhexh]

Some people are drastically underestimating AV's offensive firepower even without access to his 2 hours. A few LS have had the displeasure of fighting AV in it's partially locked state where it didn't have access to 2 hours but still had magic + TP moves and I can say with extreme confidence that he was anything but easy. Our first time we locked into this mode, we opened up with a Kraken DRK zerg ( 4 DRKs, 3 of them with BW available ) with BW and 1 SV ( other BRD didnt have SV ready ) and we dropped it to a measly 95% only because it decided to open with Aeroga right as the DRKs engaged, followed by Impact Steam stunning everyone in range and then shortly afterwards another Aeroga that killed half the DRKs because outside healers couldnt reheal everyone in time ( tanks + DDs ) since they got caught by Stun. We then struggled for over an hour to bring it to 79% before it started spamming Meteor on us ending the night.

Even if you discount his 2 hours by timing an assault during Mighty Strikes [ which seems like the best option since I don't recall ever seeing him overlap 2 hours during his normal unlocked state ], I just can't see any group of DDs being able to sustain optimal damage for the entire duration of Soul Eater. Anytime Aeroga lands damage output is halved until they get their HP cured back from outside healers, and anytime Impact Steam is used they get stunned which stops damage completely.

Faranim gave an estimate of 8% per DRK and requiring 12 DRKs, I would probably drop that estimate closer to 5-6% in ideal circumstances since even when AV was below 20% during our wins I never saw more than 4% cut by a single DRK with BW and usually it was 2% for non-BW users. Of course this didnt involve SV in the later stages but AV wasn't fighting back .

Honestly, the biggest hurdle to overcome is the huge unknown of whether AV's HP triggered modes will still happen or not. If he hits 79% and enters meteor mode, he will cast Comet instantly, followed by Meteor then Tornado and Aeroga and repeat that 4 spell pattern indefinitely. If this AI change still occurs I think everyone can safely say AV is unkillable unless his magic can be locked.

[rezn0r]

wait,

stop calling AV a he, it's obvious the fucked up bitch is female

continue:

[Jeryhn]

wait,

stop calling AV a he, it's obvious the fucked up bitch is female

continue:

+1.7 more pages of drama... Just in time for lunch!