30 Sec Baha v2 (didnt see this in the other thread)

[Wizerd]

Isn't Seiryu casting spell when it hundred fist?

No.

[Suiram]

AV's Hundred Fists isn't like other mobs' and players' Hundred Fists, though. Remember there's an actual dialog entry for both Mijin Gakure and Hundred Fists. Mijin makes sense because he's not actually blowing up, he does the 2H and then his wyverns all blow up.

If the accounts of him casting during HF are accurate, then that would probably explain the need for the dialog entry as well.

[Wizerd]

AV's Hundred Fists isn't like other mobs' and players' Hundred Fists, though. Remember there's an actual dialog entry for both Mijin Gakure and Hundred Fists. Mijin makes sense because he's not actually blowing up, he does the 2H and then his wyverns all blow up.

If the accounts of him casting during HF are accurate, then that would probably explain the need for the dialog entry as well.

Dialog entry as in Log entry? There are log entries for players HF and mobs HF.

[Suiram]

Dialog entry as in:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8728/avdialogay2.jpg

[Sidanoir]

If you ever used Shadowbind as a means to counter Seiryus 2 hour you know its up when he starts casting...

You can stand directly in front of a bound Seiryu during hundred fists and he will not cast on you...once 2 hour is over he will cast...

Also a bound seiryu not during 2 hour without someone to cast on will SPAM Wind Wall and I mean spam...his auto TP rate is ridiculous..

So the notion that Seiryu or any other normal non AV mob uses TP or Magic during 2 hours is false..I can't recall any mob that does during such a 2 hour....and the notion that Seiryu did indeed cast and TP during 2 hours = lol...Seiryu is an auto TP whore and spams TP.....all 45 seconds of hundred fists he wont even use 1...

For non melee 2 hours...
Look @ Marquis Orias for instance in Xarc....once he manafonts he will not move...not attack not tp..just spam spells one after another..
Clearly 2 hours change AI significantly..

This dialog entry thing for AV is suggesting that he doesn't get the same modifications?

[NynJa]

For non melee 2 hours...
Look @ Marquis Orias for instance in Xarc....once he manafonts he will not move...not attack not tp..just spam spells one after another..
Clearly 2 hours change AI significantly..

All mobs who use manafont do this if they are not silenced.
Just like mobs who are under the effect of Chainspell cast spells nonstop, unless they are silenced once again.

[Suiram]

This dialog entry thing for AV is suggesting that he doesn't get the same modifications?

Well, other people here wrote that AV doesn't get the same modifications. I'm just pointing out that if that's true, then that fact and the existence of the special dialog entry serve as an explanation for one another.

[Sidanoir]

For non melee 2 hours...
Look @ Marquis Orias for instance in Xarc....once he manafonts he will not move...not attack not tp..just spam spells one after another..
Clearly 2 hours change AI significantly..

All mobs who use manafont do this if they are not silenced.
Just like mobs who are under the effect of Chainspell cast spells nonstop, unless they are silenced once again.

Yes , I was just trying to point out the AI changes resulting from a casting and non casting 2 hour.
Wanted to use well known NMs as examples..

I used Orias cause we start each NM platform with ga3 x Number of BLMs so he always 2 hours on pull and its annoying that he just stands there.
I used Seiryu cause I saw some claims that seiryu tps and casts during hundred fists...
Really late in this convo anyway being busy at work ftl

[inafume]

Hm. I could've sworn that Seiryu will cast Blink during Hundred Fists if it's shadowbound. I guess it could've been after the 2hr wore off but I never had that impression before.

[safer]

Dialog entry as in:

[img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8728/avdialogay2.jpg [/img]

im kinda curious what the JP text with DEATH! at the end is for

[Jiade]

I think Mobs in FFXI work A LOT like Gambits from FFXII. They have a list of priorities. At the top (at least how I see it) for most mobs is their 2 hour. So if they use their 2 hour and they are able to use their 2 hour (ie Manafont and not silenced, Hundred Fists and able to hit, etc.) then they prefer that action over their other possible actions.

WHM/PLD/RDM mobs often only cure themselves below 30% HP. Below certain %HP, mobs use different moves. Mobs use TP at different %'s based on their HP. MNK mobs in dynamis typically Hundred Fist between 90-99% HP. The list goes on and on of fairly predictable behaviour. I don't see why AV would be 100% unpredictable. I think there's just still a lot of unknowns.

[Demitrius]

Chainspell doesn't make mobs start spamming instant-cast spells... rather, they seem to have roughly the same time between spells, but they cast instantly. But Manafont, since its actual effect has no meaning to a mob with 832742343 mp, just makes the mob spam spells nonstop for the duration of the effect, uninterruptable except by stunning.

[Blackice]

Manafont also gives the mob access to higher spells, such as AV with meteor.

[Lordwafik]

Chainspell doesn't make mobs start spamming instant-cast spells... rather, they seem to have roughly the same time between spells, but they cast instantly. But Manafont, since its actual effect has no meaning to a mob with 832742343 mp, just makes the mob spam spells nonstop for the duration of the effect, uninterruptable except by stunning.

eh in dynamis I notice when they use chainspell, their AI tells them to use spells more frequently.

[aers]

Hm. I could've sworn that Seiryu will cast Blink during Hundred Fists if it's shadowbound. I guess it could've been after the 2hr wore off but I never had that impression before.

hes using a blink TP move.

[Khamsin]

Chainspell doesn't make mobs start spamming instant-cast spells... rather, they seem to have roughly the same time between spells, but they cast instantly. But Manafont, since its actual effect has no meaning to a mob with 832742343 mp, just makes the mob spam spells nonstop for the duration of the effect, uninterruptable except by stunning.

Tell that to Suzaku.

Hm. I could've sworn that Seiryu will cast Blink during Hundred Fists if it's shadowbound. I guess it could've been after the 2hr wore off but I never had that impression before.

hes using a blink TP move.

I don't recall him having a blink TP move. Sure it wasn't just an Evasion Boost TP move or something?

[Cubana]

Im not sure what you are trying to say there. Are you implying that people attempting to fly before newton didn't try to think of ways to get over the annoying fact that everytime they jumped up, they fell down instead?

No, what I'm trying to say is that it was common sense to know that if you tried to fly you would fall. It took someone putting those obvious pieces together to further scientific progress.

A lot of stuff is obvious in retrospect. Don't discredit someone for putting common sense pieces together to create a good tactic just in virtue of the fact that the pieces themselves are obvious.

[BRP]

Manafont also gives the mob access to higher spells, such as AV with meteor.

No this isn't quite true. AV is just very different.

[inafume]

Hm. I could've sworn that Seiryu will cast Blink during Hundred Fists if it's shadowbound. I guess it could've been after the 2hr wore off but I never had that impression before.

hes using a blink TP move.

My bad, you're right. He spams Wind Wall.

[Cubana]

Oh and another thing. I've seen people bitch and bitch like little whiny ... well, bitches about KC burning AV. Waa it's unfair, waa it should be nerfed, waa waa fucking waa. It hasn't even been done yet and you're already bitching. But that's beside the point. Why should it be nerfed? Because someone has the means to an effiecient end and you don't?

Call me arrogant again if you want, but any strategy which kills anything time and time again can be viewed as "cheap." Just because your LS doesn't have the resources to kill a mob via kraken rush doesn't mean that the tactic is cheating.

Some people have complained about the resources thing and how it's easy for a LS to do the kraken stuff IF they have the resources. Now my question is this: For those people who complain about LS resources, what does your LS bank use its gil on? Chances are they payout gil to its members every month so that they can buy some items or fund some jobs (this is not wrong in any way btw.) I mean the average LS at this level of gameplay has probably seen enough gil, in the LS's entire history, go through their bank to be able to buy 6+ kraken clubs.

Why you used that gil for less efficient means is your own business. When you're in a LS I hope it's for the experience of achieving things and not merely for acquiring items. All LSs who have even an inkling of sense should know that they should work towards efficiency. Otherwise what's the point? <-- (I know this is very arrogant but I am what I am and I'm not going to change for these boards.)

If you feel that people have more fun in a LS when everyone has a complicated task to perform and rule out kraken rushes in virtue of this very idea, then that's your preference. Just don't scream rape when a LS who uses their resources to accomplish a great feat while you decide "my LS won't resort to burst tactics because it's 'cheap'." A lot of the time this very reasoning is what LS's that are in denial use to rationalize the fact that they fail at everything.

It's ridiculous. I have some more questions: when and with what strategy will you find an AV kill legit? Was it legit when you locked AV and killed it because you thought "oh well we locked AV, so it was meant to be locked, so our method was legit." Now that SE fixed AV so we can't find a way to lock it, wouldn't that be reason enough to think that SE didn't intend it to be killed while locked, and that we are contradicting our ethics on these boards when we praise LSs like BTL and Apathy for those locked kills?

So, was it "cheap" and unfair and not legit to kill AV the way LS's killed it when it was lockable? If the answer to that question is no then apply that same reasoning to the following scenario: SE created this game so it has terrain and the programming was such that (before they fixed it) players could glitch AV in a wall.

Now, people claimed that it was cheating how we killed AV the first time and discredited our accomplishment because of how we manipulated faulty programming. Fact is, SE didn't intend for AV to be killed that way or else they wouldn't have changed AV so that it can draw in now.

In the same respect, I contend that SE also didn't intend for AV to be killed by locking it first, since they did in fact fix that too. So were those locked kills legit or were all those LS's - waaaa waaaaa - cheating? I think we all believe those were legit kills and that's fine, they should be. But if you do then don't discredit future AV kills that involve KC's rushes because SE hasn't even nerfed that yet. Hell a KC rush AV kill right now is more legit than the locked AV kills we hold with such high regard.

You guys had a problem with manaburning everything. Now you have a problem with KC rushes. What can we do as efficient LS's for you guys (the people who do bitch about all this)? I'm assuming the only real legit kill of anything in this game would involve an army of PUPs and DRGs with a gang of BLUs to "creatively" serve as main healers, buffers, debuffers, tanks, and DD. Oh wait, in that strat, what would we need the PUPs and DRGs for then? What does that leave us with? OMGZ BLU BURN RUNNNNNN.