Enmity Management

[Rocl]

NIN is not significantly lower than WAR in damage.

Waahahahahahhahah , and he says Faranim is clueless.

Depends on WAR....
Depends on NIN....

I have out parsed "good" WARs on NIN by a couple percent....
I have come within 1-2% of fully merited well geared MNK/NIN on NIN.....and 1-2% of better geared WARs with E body type stuff, heca hat..but no ridill
Good war meaning standard hauberk, axe/axe, axe/johy wars...with decent gear no crazy HQs some heca pieces, sniper/rajas, brutal/suppa...

I will never out parse a Ridill WAR on NIN....
Now for the WARs that I outparsed with decent gear, not sure what their merit situation was but I had 6 katana merits at the time..and 4 crit..only 1 STR so /shrug

LOL
EPIC WHOOSH

[Cylo]

NIN is not significantly lower than WAR in damage.

Waahahahahahhahah , and he says Faranim is clueless.

Depends on WAR....
Depends on NIN....

I have out parsed "good" WARs on NIN by a couple percent....
I have come within 1-2% of fully merited well geared MNK/NIN on NIN.....and 1-2% of better geared WARs with E body type stuff, heca hat..but no ridill
Good war meaning standard hauberk, axe/axe, axe/johy wars...with decent gear no crazy HQs some heca pieces, sniper/rajas, brutal/suppa...

I will never out parse a Ridill WAR on NIN....
Now for the WARs that I outparsed with decent gear, not sure what their merit situation was but I had 6 katana merits at the time..and 4 crit..only 1 STR so /shrug

LOL
EPIC WHOOSH

Sorry for the quote train... but something went wrong somewhere, and I blame wafik! LOL

[MF Perm]

Alright then, let the games begin. Let's break out the semantics and faggotry.

My RIDILL RANGER WITH NINJA SUB, WILL EASILY OUTPARSE A RANGER WITH WAR SUB, EVEN WITH RIDILL IN A MERIPO. THIS IS A SITUATION. SHOULD I DESCRIBE A BLANKET STATEMENT FOR THE MENSA MATERIAL IN THE ROOM?

Let's it bring it yall, cause I done broughted it. Just because 5 dumb motherfuckers back one dumb motherfucker doesn't make you a smart group. It just feels that way when you all agree with each other.

[Ryko]

Alright then, let the games begin. Let's break out the semantics and faggotry.

My RIDILL RANGER WITH NINJA SUB, WILL EASILY OUTPARSE A RANGER WITH WAR SUB, EVEN WITH RIDILL IN A MERIPO. THIS IS A SITUATION. SHOULD I DESCRIBE A BLANKET STATEMENT FOR THE MENSA MATERIAL IN THE ROOM?

Let's it bring it yall, cause I done broughted it. Just because 5 dumb motherfuckers back one dumb motherfucker doesn't make you a smart group. It just feels that way when you all agree with each other.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8607/doipassmd9.jpg

Do I pass all your required credentials?

Do I?

Oh please say I do.

Because youre full of shit (and I prefer going RNG/NIN when I bother going to get buffer on ranger, doesnt mean I trick myself into thinking I can outdo someone with zerk).

[aurik]

wut no corsair sub? you gimp.

[Ryko]

I know, I know! life is hard.

[Kuya]

Alright then, let the games begin. Let's break out the semantics and faggotry.

My RIDILL RANGER WITH NINJA SUB, WILL EASILY OUTPARSE A RANGER WITH WAR SUB, EVEN WITH RIDILL IN A MERIPO. THIS IS A SITUATION. SHOULD I DESCRIBE A BLANKET STATEMENT FOR THE MENSA MATERIAL IN THE ROOM?

Let's it bring it yall, cause I done broughted it. Just because 5 dumb motherfuckers back one dumb motherfucker doesn't make you a smart group. It just feels that way when you all agree with each other.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8607/doipassmd9.jpg

Do I pass all your required credentials?

Do I?

Oh please say I do.

Because youre full of shit (and I prefer going RNG/NIN when I bother going to get buffer on ranger, doesnt mean I trick myself into thinking I can outdo someone with zerk).

LEVEL MOR MAGE JUBS

where the fack is smn lol

[Ryko]

Fuck that ruby, thrown like 4 of them away.

[Kuya]

Fuck that ruby, thrown like 4 of them away.

not excuse enough, melee smn you must

[izembo]

i cant help but laugh at the blm2

[Ryko]

BST RDM and BLM were all a byproduct of my failing to deathwarp

[aurik]

My crafting mules are lv2 blm now too lol

[RKenshin]

I thought this thread was dead. D:

MF Perm, you have to know how significant of a boost in damage RNG gets from high ranged attack, right? I may be misunderstanding your posts but there's really no comparison as far as damage output goes between /NIN and /WAR. The amount ranged attack effects RNG damage is ridiculous, and it's not comparable to any other job in the game. Sure I'll go eat Red Curry, get Minuetx2, and use Berserk and get some nice numbers on any other melee job, but hardly ever a drastic change in my output in comparison to having none of those. My WS average will jump by maybe 300 points max, and damage per hit by maybe 50 max.

Now, you do the same for RNG... WS damage will double or even triple/quadriple, and the same applies for normal ranged attacks. The difference between the presense/absense of every substantial attack buff on RNG is way more significant than any other job. There's no way you can play it off like Berserk doesn't do much.

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing over the whole utility of /NIN vs /WAR, I'm talking strictly damage. I'll agree /NIN is more appropriate for some situations, and in fact I've been subbing NIN for every Salvage run. However, arguing there is little to no difference in damage output is a little too far.

I guess you've never seen a ranger worth a damn

Ummm yes i have, myself and countless others. Sorry but I was 75 RNG soon after NA release, dont give me the rarwRNG speech, I've lived the dream... And it's why i suggested the OP level another job.

Sorry but RNG is generally an under achieving job (cue ammagawd rng nerf music) these days.

I really have to disagree with that to an extent... Sure on some fights RNG can be difficult to play well as a DD (Wyrms in particular) but there's always ways to make things work. This argument can go for any job, but fact is just about any job with the right equipment/skill can improvise and be useful for a situation, and this is especially true for RNG. Is it useful to have other jobs leveled? Sure, always is, but it's not necessary. RNG can work fine in most situations just like any other DD job. I'd even argue RNG is often way more flexible than other DD jobs, not to mention a well-equiped and supported RNG's nearly unmatched damage potential in a zerg.

[MF Perm]

Alright then, let the games begin. Let's break out the semantics and faggotry.

My RIDILL RANGER WITH NINJA SUB, WILL EASILY OUTPARSE A RANGER WITH WAR SUB, EVEN WITH RIDILL IN A MERIPO. THIS IS A SITUATION. SHOULD I DESCRIBE A BLANKET STATEMENT FOR THE MENSA MATERIAL IN THE ROOM?

Let's it bring it yall, cause I done broughted it. Just because 5 dumb motherfuckers back one dumb motherfucker doesn't make you a smart group. It just feels that way when you all agree with each other.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8607/doipassmd9.jpg

Do I pass all your required credentials?

Do I?

Oh please say I do.

Because youre full of shit (and I prefer going RNG/NIN when I bother going to get buffer on ranger, doesnt mean I trick myself into thinking I can outdo someone with zerk).

I don't even understand the point you're trying to make with the post, much less if you even understood what I was trying to say. It appears this is not so, but since I'm such a fabulous diva I'll give you another shot to make sense. Pls xpln.



@RKenshin - You're a smart guy it seems, I've been reading your posts over the years. I know you calculate everything to how the letter A from a box of alphabits will land in a bowl of skim milk on a 47 degree Farenheit day when the wind is blowing 11 MPH NW when you're inside of a velvet tent.... but, I expected a little better from your post.

Damage and Outdamage are relative terms. In the course of A WHOLE ENTIRE FIGHT, BE IT MERIPO, HNM, BCNM - There are constants and variables per situation that will change the effect of one being better than the other and in the end tally OUTDAMAGING the other.

Now, obviously a /WAR will have alot higher RATT capability. But since survivability drops, and a lower chance at TP and RAccuracy benefit ( for HNM particularly ), chances are you will WS less. Obviously for /NIN you have a little more survivability, another slot to add racc / ratk, won't be hesitant to stand in the mobs face for TP ( SINCE THE NERF IS REALLY PRETTY MUCH GONE NOW AS OF WHAT. 3 MONTHS? ), and you will hit 100TP with more frequency. But again this is variable depending on what you are fighting and how you are fighting it.


Semantics and faggotry /off?

Don't get mad, get Glad.

[Ryko]

I don't even understand the point you're trying to make with the post, much less if you even understood what I was trying to say. It appears this is not so, but since I'm such a fabulous diva I'll give you another shot to make sense. Pls xpln.

My point was that telling someone "well you're not a 75 RNG so what the fuck would you know" is a retarded argument to make against someone, especially someone who was right. My mistake for not putting it on flash cards for you.

Also on an HNM fight where you pull hate, for the most part you're either running or dying. You're not gonna pull hate on, say, fafnir, and say you won the parse because you sat there casting shadows for 30 seconds instead of taking the shots and eating the floor if necessary (but not likely). In EXP, your ass is probably dropping a sidewinder for the purpose of killing a monster, arrowburns where at least 1 RNG is tanking after overdoing it early don't exist anymore. It's not a question of variables and retarded what if's, a rng/nin with good sense is going to be a RNG/WAR with good sense and better damage output.

In the cases where you would purposefully sub nin at this point, it's because you want to survive doing something out of whack for alternative purposes, not because you want to outdo the /WAR next to you.

[MF Perm]

I don't even understand the point you're trying to make with the post, much less if you even understood what I was trying to say. It appears this is not so, but since I'm such a fabulous diva I'll give you another shot to make sense. Pls xpln.

My point was that telling someone "well you're not a 75 RNG so what the fuck would you know" is a retarded argument to make against someone, especially someone who was right. My mistake for not putting it on flash cards for you.

Also on an HNM fight where you pull hate, for the most part you're either running or dying. You're not gonna pull hate on, say, fafnir, and say you won the parse because you sat there casting shadows for 30 seconds instead of taking the shots and eating the floor if necessary (but not likely). In EXP, your ass is probably dropping a sidewinder for the purpose of killing a monster, arrowburns where at least 1 RNG is tanking after overdoing it early don't exist anymore. It's not a question of variables and retarded what if's, a rng/nin with good sense is going to be a RNG/WAR with good sense and better damage output.

In the cases where you would purposefully sub nin at this point, it's because you want to survive doing something out of whack for alternative purposes, not because you want to outdo the /WAR next to you.

Oh right, because someone who doesn't have experience with something they can know it all just by reading. I'm glad I read a paragraph on astrophysics on CNN, now I can call NASA and give them some pointers. Brilliant arguement.

And I mean, a RNG/WAR taking a crit from an HNM with Zerk up won't drop him immediately in most cases, as to where a /NIN would cast Ni and maybe utsu buying the tank time to get hate, and then keep up his damage. Ya that's not something you could put into a logic formula and come out with concrete numbers for. If you're /WAR taking hate and running then all those melee trying to do damage are maybe losing TP when they try to WS or melee strikes when they're chasing it, you're a moron on par with BLM that do the same.

BUT YOU MAY BE RIGHT.

Listen, as with any internet argument no one is going to back down. You have alot of anonymous pride riding on your alter-ego, and god forbid anyone back down and say "You know what, you may have a point."

So again, do we want to discuss damage in relativity? Or do you prefer playing tennis for the rest of the day. I prefer tennis, cuz u look kute in dat skirt WOoOoOoOoOoOoO~~~

[Ryko]

Oh right, because someone who doesn't have experience with something they can know it all just by reading. I'm glad I read a paragraph on astrophysics on CNN, now I can call NASA and give them some pointers. Brilliant arguement.

Small hint: Damage dealing in FFXI isn't a hard concept to grasp if you're remotely intelligent, the problem is that most of the typical people you run into in pickups are not.

We're not the typical people you run into in pickups.

It's not anonymous pride, there's little to be had when the concept is so painstakingly simple and you think people need a fuckdamn resume to disagree with you.

Get off it, you're not gonna get a PhD in sidewinders.

[MF Perm]

Oh right, because someone who doesn't have experience with something they can know it all just by reading. I'm glad I read a paragraph on astrophysics on CNN, now I can call NASA and give them some pointers. Brilliant arguement.

Small hint: Damage dealing in FFXI isn't a hard concept to grasp if you're remotely intelligent, the problem is that most of the typical people you run into in pickups are not.

We're not the typical people you run into in pickups.

It's not anonymous pride, there's little to be had when the concept is so painstakingly simple and you think people need a fuckdamn resume to disagree with you.

Get off it, you're not gonna get a PhD in sidewinders.

Apparently you missed the dripping sarcasm in that quote. But we do agree on something finally - it's not brain surgery to figure this stuff out, and that's exactly my point. Hence the "blanket statement" comment a few posts back.

And "we" doesn't include everyone who posts on this board. "We" may define your clique, or longtime posters - but you as well as I know anyone that anyone that makes an ignorant comment on this board is going to be pointed out. But gg sidestepping the argument to make a critique on my presentation. But go ahead and lump my observation on one person into me vs. everyone. CRIPZ ON DA WESSIDE, BLUE BANGA ON THA LEFSIDE.

And as much as I'd like to achieve an even higher education, I'll stick to my MA in tittyfucking hairy bitchtits. CHAFEYTIME!

[Beckwin]

If a rng/nin pulls hate, there's a couple things to consider:

1. tank might suck
2. you don't just "blink a few hits" until the tank gets hate back and pretend shit is fine and dandy again. If you pull hate once and don't die/logout and keep doing the same damage, you're going to pull hate again.
3. yes, you can shoot in melee range, but a big advantage rng has going for it over other melee DDs is the fact that they can do dmg while staying out of shitty AoE range. See Cerberus and Khimaira. And back to point 2; if you pull hate once you'll pull it again unless you die/log and its not smart to have Cerberus and Khimaira running around, and you're sponging mp by being in AoE range otherwise.

[MF Perm]

If a rng/nin pulls hate, there's a couple things to consider:

1. tank might suck
2. you don't just "blink a few hits" until the tank gets hate back and pretend shit is fine and dandy again. If you pull hate once and don't die/logout and keep doing the same damage, you're going to pull hate again.
3. yes, you can shoot in melee range, but a big advantage rng has going for it over other melee DDs is the fact that they can do dmg while staying out of shitty AoE range. See Cerberus and Khimaira. And back to point 2; if you pull hate once you'll pull it again unless you die/log and its not smart to have Cerberus and Khimaira running around, and you're sponging mp by being in AoE range otherwise.

I don't think that taking AoE damage for a pln/nin with 5-8 mp a tick refresh to cure for hate is a bad thing.

Remember the enmity loss through losing shadows update?

Last time I checked, waiting 1 minute to do damage after pulling hate is less time than 5 minutes rez and another 10 to rest HP ( that is if you aren't being an MP sponge by asking to be topped off after unweak )

And if a tank sucks, you have hate gaining JA and damage to keep the mob off of the mages.


Go ahead and come back with another one, it's a slow Friday at work.