Relic 3x damage formula

[Sidanoir]

Ya the TP gain definitely is slower /WAR..

And I can imagine a few times you are ready to WS and mob is at high hp and you being hesistant with just SA up...some things like that can throw off parse, but clearly for your play style and gear etc. THF/NIN > THF/WAR..

Its funny how this is the case for thief when most jobs its opposite..

MNK/WAR damage > MNK/NIN

DRK/WAR damage > DRK/NIN

etc. etc.

[Blackice]

It's because dual wield is broken, DRK/NIN and MNK/NIN don't benefit from /NIN. THF on the other hand is getting a second weapon and then on top of that if they have good haste gear and Suppa, their delay is damn near a single dagger anyways.

[Sidanoir]

It's because dual wield is broken, DRK/NIN and MNK/NIN don't benefit from /NIN. THF on the other hand is getting a second weapon and then on top of that if they have good haste gear and Suppa, their delay is damn near a single dagger anyways.

What do you mean broken! SE fixed Dual Wield by reducing TP per hit for THF and NIN <.< Didnt they!

[Wizerd]

It's because dual wield is broken, DRK/NIN and MNK/NIN don't benefit from /NIN. THF on the other hand is getting a second weapon and then on top of that if they have good haste gear and Suppa, their delay is damn near a single dagger anyways.

What do you mean broken! SE fixed Dual Wield by reducing TP per hit for THF and NIN <.< Didnt they!

Ehh we still get too much TP.

[divisortheory]

Thats a close parse and can be that you win for a couple of stupid reasons like..
Was Archain slow to engage compared to you? Did he get cure locked while engaging a lot? Did he have any deaths in parser? Were you using Mercy Stroke at 1%? :O Was he lolVoking!
Just curious as to how confident you are that it was the Subjob which made the difference in the parse and not other factors like the ones mentioned above..it might be more beneficial as Nynja said to /WAR yourself and compare to /NIN in same PT

There could indeed have been a lot of factors. If nothing else, this demonstrates that /WAR wont' "demolish" /NIN as others have said. As for slow to engage, cure locked, etc sure he did. But so did I. There were times I saw him saying in PT that he didn't have Haste, or that he was slowed, but a few tiems I'd gotten those same effects. In the end, I think it was on pretty fair terms.

[NynJa]

personally I think trolls are a bad mob to guage dmage on, simply due to diamondhide which can skew averages (ie: Archain's low crit being a 4).

[divisortheory]

personally I think trolls are a bad mob to guage dmage on, simply due to diamondhide which can skew averages (ie: Archain's low crit being a 4).

We wanted to do Colibri, but as usual at JP prime, camps were occupied. I got Diamondhide'd a few times as well, I'm just assuming in the end we both got equally screwed by Diamondhide and that shit that knocks you back and makes you petrified.

[Tdizzle]

Thats pretty much what I expected to be honest. Parsing against myself I always felt that thf/nin did more dot because of swinging faster. Double attk just doesnt proc enough with all the triples going off more often anyway. And the attack bonus war gets (pre zerk of course) can easily be negated by poping a dagger with attk bonuses in offhand (see blau or BK+1)

My only concern is that 2 thieves in a party together arent a good indication of which actually does more dmg. This is because of the gayness that is required to be in posistion to fire off TA and SA. I partied with some thieves before and even though it showed me a bit higher on the total dmg, the parse didnt show the fact that I was raping the mobs more than the other one. THis is due to the fact that I was holding tp to 200 or more because I had the mobs attention the whole time from attacking constantly and hitting harder than the others.

It's jsut hard to compare thf vs thf in the same party because you're both jockying for positioning all the time.

Just a thought. It confirms what I always felt from parsing myself using /nin and /war on trolls before.

Side point: No disrespect to your war friend but judgeing from his numbers he seems to be a 'normal' ridill war. 700 avg ws and 1400 high isn't what i'm used to seeing from my ls's "pimp" war. From our troll pts I see him knock off avg 1k rampages and highs of 2k without mighty strikes. His ws avg is usually very close to mine unless we're fighting weak to piercing mobs. My normal numbers mirror you guys as far as avg though, its the wars that I saw a big diff.

[Tdizzle]

Ya the TP gain definitely is slower /WAR..

And I can imagine a few times you are ready to WS and mob is at high hp and you being hesistant with just SA up...some things like that can throw off parse, but clearly for your play style and gear etc. THF/NIN > THF/WAR..

Its funny how this is the case for thief when most jobs its opposite..

MNK/WAR damage > MNK/NIN

DRK/WAR damage > DRK/NIN

etc. etc.

Both drk and mnk dont have natural triple attk or double attack so they actually benefit greatly from /war. The attk and str bonuses are very nice. Mnk gets no benefit from dual wield making /nin a def subjob only. Drk to make any use of /nin has to swap to axes which isn't their top skilled weapon. So both take big hits subbing /nin where as thf gets to use an extra A rated weapon and increase their already fast attacking. That trumps the bonuses war gives in attack and the double attack doesnt factor since triple is already there naturally.

[divisortheory]

Well I can't say I PT against Ridill WARs every day or anything, but I can say I've never seen anybody beat that person, including other Ridill WARs. The only thing he's missing is E. Body, aside from that I think he has pretty much everything, including capped merits.

As for the positioning, I personally never had a problem positioning when I wanted to fire a WS, or do a Sneak Attack. I missed more or less the same amount of SAs and/or TAs as I do when I'm the only THF in the PT.

[Slott]

eh, either way it doesn't matter too much for exp, however on HNMs /war makes a world of a difference. My ls started doing cerberus again, and I've been using sushi for it as /war since my acc seemed rather low even stacking a shitton of acc gear (seriously getting bothered by that fact). As /nin dmg was rather poor (Whether I used meat or sushi)

As /war, dmg was so high that I stole hate a couple times. I lived through 1 flail hit (since its single target - lol think after all the hits and flail i lived w/ 1 hp) - backed off, then a few mins later i stole hate again and flail ate me =)

Reason for sushi over meat was even with 292 dagger (have 8 dagger merits | +16), love torque, then +52 acc (if i'm calculating it right, doing it off the top of my head) still had a miss rate that was way too high for my liking.

[Tdizzle]

Well I can't say I PT against Ridill WARs every day or anything, but I can say I've never seen anybody beat that person, including other Ridill WARs. The only thing he's missing is E. Body, aside from that I think he has pretty much everything, including capped merits.

yea no doubt. THe one I'm speaking about is seriously ridiculous, I'd put him against any job on any server on any mob. He has absolutely everything and is a hell of a player. Hes the one I based myself against and it was quite the uphill climb I must admit.

[Sidanoir]

I would say 700 WS average sounds right for trolls....1000 sounds really high....maybe 2 bard double min meat pt? IDK

700 WS with sushi 1 bard pt on Trolls sounds reasonable to me..they are kinda high defense and not to mention diamondhide before WS will knock down average.

And Yes I understand the resaons THF benefits more from /NIN than /WAR for exp..I still find it funny if you will that its pretty much the only job that is that way, all other jobs I can think of benefit more from /WAR damage wise.....

And yes I am sure in the long run in a parse everyone gets "screwed" equally you would hope...but as you said it clearly was not a blow up by any means...

[Toth]

Both drk and mnk dont have natural triple attk or double attack so they actually benefit greatly from /war.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but aren't Kick Attacks an occasional double attack?

[Blackice]

Can't be compared honestly, because you can both double attack and still kick. Kick attacks also do not proc at anytime on a WS.

[Toth]

Gotcha

[divisortheory]

Kick attacks also do not proc at anytime on a WS.

Even Dragon Kick? (sorry for the noob question, I'm serious though lol)

[SamanosukeShiva]

I don't think so

IMO if dragon kick categorized as kick attack, the ws dmg would double with dune boot, and it doesn't.

[draxyl]

Kick attacks also do not proc at anytime on a WS.

Even Dragon Kick? (sorry for the noob question, I'm serious though lol)

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/image...sa_naughty.gif Nope, no kick attacks in DK.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

didnt someone on bahamut do 2k+ on KB with steel cyclone once?

A WAR in my old linkshell did a 2250 Steel Cyclone to the KS99 KB before he got his ridill. (He had 8 G. Axe merits before getting a ridill.)