Relic 3x damage formula

[Lordwafik]

BTW, Counter% of 41% is fairly ridiculous, lol. I'm guessing that's because of the Spharai.

Counterstance, not Spharai.

Counterstance and spharai work hand in hand, the Enhanced Counter on the Spharai boosts it too.

[draxyl]

Aurik, you use AFv2 to boost counter as well?

Nynja...

[divisortheory]

BTW, Counter% of 41% is fairly ridiculous, lol. I'm guessing that's because of the Spharai.

Counterstance, not Spharai.

Yea, but Counterstance is way below 40%. Spharai "Enhances the Effect of" Counterstance.

[othellojr]

BTW, Counter% of 41% is fairly ridiculous, lol. I'm guessing that's because of the Spharai.

Counterstance, not Spharai.

Spharai adds to counter... My highest counter % in that camp was 35% but I had a second brd each time I was on mnk (mnk/nin though), to have over 40% is insane actually, lol.

[divisortheory]

BTW, Counter% of 41% is fairly ridiculous, lol. I'm guessing that's because of the Spharai.

Counterstance, not Spharai.

My highest counter % in that camp was 35% but I had a second brd each time

Wait, are you saying having a second BRD increased your Counter%? How so?

[Khamsin]

So relic 3x damage formula is the same as for a normal critical hit?

So, in essence, it may as well say "Enhances Rate of Critical Hits" on the weapon?

Unless an actual +% crit rate would be treated differently.

No, it's essentially the opposite of a critical hit. Critical hits enhance the pDIF range of the damage function - 3x damage from relic doesn't touch pDIF, it triples the other half - the "DMG" part (WDMG+fSTR). You can have 3x hits without crits and vice-versa - they are completely independent of each other.

For those who aren't savvy at FFXI math, the maximum possible crit is equal to (D + fSTR) * 3, where D is the base damage of your weapon, and fSTR changes depending on the mob you're fighting.

He said the maximum possible normal crit was (D + fSTR) * 3, and he also said the formula for triple damage proc is (D + fSTR) * 3.

[aurik]

BTW, Counter% of 41% is fairly ridiculous, lol. I'm guessing that's because of the Spharai.

Counterstance, not Spharai.

My highest counter % in that camp was 35% but I had a second brd each time

Wait, are you saying having a second BRD increased your Counter%? How so?

Madrigal -> higher accuracy, higher accuracy -> higher counter rate

[Lordwafik]

BTW, Counter% of 41% is fairly ridiculous, lol. I'm guessing that's because of the Spharai.

Counterstance, not Spharai.

My highest counter % in that camp was 35% but I had a second brd each time

Wait, are you saying having a second BRD increased your Counter%? How so?

Counter is based on accuracy. BRD madrigal affects rate. A trick mnks can do to completely counter tank while solo is use some shitty sushi and put up CS.

Another weird thing of this game Kinda like being blinded lets you miss some gaze attacks.

[divisortheory]

So relic 3x damage formula is the same as for a normal critical hit?

So, in essence, it may as well say "Enhances Rate of Critical Hits" on the weapon?

Unless an actual +% crit rate would be treated differently.

No, it's essentially the opposite of a critical hit. Critical hits enhance the pDIF range of the damage function - 3x damage from relic doesn't touch pDIF, it triples the other half - the "DMG" part (WDMG+fSTR). You can have 3x hits without crits and vice-versa - they are completely independent of each other.

For those who aren't savvy at FFXI math, the maximum possible crit is equal to (D + fSTR) * 3, where D is the base damage of your weapon, and fSTR changes depending on the mob you're fighting.

He said the maximum possible normal crit was (D + fSTR) * 3, and he also said the formula for triple damage proc is (D + fSTR) * 3.

Yea, so if a crit and a 3x proc at the same time, you're essentially getting (D + fSTR) * 9, assuming Sneak Attack or Trick Attack wasn't used. The more general formula explains it better.

[Floor[(D + fSTR)*k] + p*DEX + q*AGI] * pDIF

where k=2.5 or 3 depending on the relic weapon, p = 1 if using Sneak Attack and 0 otherwise, and q = 1 if using Trick Attack and 0 otherwise.

With a 3x relic, and no SA or TA, this boils down to

[(D + fSTR)*3] * 3

for the max possible crit

[Croaker]

I'll parse against Archain one of these days with him on /WAR to settle it once and for all. He beats me by about 1% when we're both on /NIN

I predict he will outparse you by at least 10%.

[aurik]

I'll parse against Archain one of these days with him on /WAR to settle it once and for all. He beats me by about 1% when we're both on /NIN

I predict he will outparse you by at least 10%.

10% as in 40-30? Or 10% as in 33-30? I could believe the latter; I remember guaging Wafik's damage output change when he went /nin to /war in the same camps (same other DDs, same bards, same rdms...pickup pts ftl) and it was somewhere around a 2-3% jump on the parser.

[VZX]

Hmm... I got few interesting things I found lately, but haven't been put in my doc. Mind if I take your conclusion ITT? (of course, will have your name attached to it)

[divisortheory]

Hmm... I got few interesting things I found lately, but haven't been put in my doc. Mind if I take your conclusion ITT? (of course, will have your name attached to it)

What's ITT mean? And sure

[aurik]

Hmm... I got few interesting things I found lately, but haven't been put in my doc. Mind if I take your conclusion ITT? (of course, will have your name attached to it)

What's ITT mean? And sure

In This Thread

[Archain]

I'm kinda glad I'm seeing this now, I had no idea where the 3x was adding itself in. I was trying to do some of the standard gorget tests on the enemies right outside of Bastok when I noticed an increased ATT still allowed me the ability to do more.

I was looking for a static number and couldn't seem to hit it as easily as I thought I'd be able to. I was under the effect of a Food Sanction bonus on Red Curry I'd eaten earlier, so I didn't know how much time I still had left on it. My tests stopped when my food ran out, I was only able to get maybe 4 or 5 WS down before finally hitting the same number twice. Building TP in a starter area takes a little time when each enemy is only giving 4-5%, lol (not to mention I look like an utter cock to the new jobs trying to level there).

http://www.infieldpress.com/parser/8...%20THF-WAR.JPG



I was going to record it all into screenshots later in order to prove to myself that MS was actually modified by the Soil Gorget. I had always assumed it was, but never took the time to verify it for myself. I'd only really followed what I had heard by ear.

I was trying to use the same method Rukenshin had used in his Livejournal for the other tests. I've tried with Culverin Slugshots before on my THF and was hitting the WS DMG cap on every use, I had always just assumed it was that easy with a melee WS. I was able verify to myself that the bonus from Berserk wasn't having any effect on the final ranged WS damage on something I severly outlevelled.

I go to try with the setup I had shown above and the +30ATT I'd taken in from Warcry seemed to be what took me to what I considered a cap of 1777, a number I'd hit twice before my test stopped. A previous WS with the same setup that did not use Warcry (682ATT) was only allowing me to hit 1700. I was trying to ask Kalia if he was seeing the same thing

I know that I don't require the ACC Bonus that a Gorget provides for a 1x like MS because either TA or SA use will force a 100% connect, my concern is mainly with the modification of the fTP for that WS. Mercy Stroke's fTP is a fixed 3.0, what type of fTP modification am I looking at when under the effect of a Soil Gorget? Is it an fTP of 3.1 vice 3.0?

• 1. Does a Triple/Double Attack occurring on a WS hit modified by SA or TA have a chance at missing?
  
  [list:ee014]I'm wondering if I can miss a forced triple attack if using a 1x WS with SA or TA. I know mainhand and offhand strikes link together as 100% ACC when something like SA is used and a Kraken Club is offhanded. Since it's WS internal, I've only got the single DMG number and a TP percentage after the WS to key off of.
  
  I'm assuming that a Triple Proc on a 1x WS will be 100% ACC due to the behavior of WS like True Strike. It seems that even with a 200 Club skill that a triple ATT on a SA+TS will always return a fairly tight number. I don't remember a time where True Strike missed one of it's TA procs.

2. Does a continued increase of ATT raise my DMG cap further or have I not hit the cap yet?

• I know it didn't have any effect if I was using ranged attacks, but I know they're calculated differently than melee ones. The increase from 1700 to 1777 with a boost in +30ATT when I thought I was capped raised this question to me.

3. If at the DMG cap, is an increase in terms of a main driver on MS (STR) going to increase my output more than the fTP increase provided by the gorget?

• On any enemy that I'm normally fighting, I'm not going to be at the DMG cap and probably would still like to be under the effect of a gorget for the fTP increase. If I'm at or near that cap though, would it be more beneficial to start moving in STR or even +7 Weapon Skill into that slot?

[/list:u:ee014]

I've been wary about posting anything because I've never had a 1x WS as THF with dagger before. The 3x DMG proc was something that I didn't totally understand in terms of what was being increased in the overall formula. I understand the skillchain properties of the WS, but did not know if the same gorget I had been using previously for the position it filled (Evisceration) was working in the same manner I thought it was.

Kalia's ATT boosting was done to see if he could replicate the same concern that I had in terms of DMG cap on something that I seriously thought I was already well over in terms of level.

[Khamsin]

So relic 3x damage formula is the same as for a normal critical hit?

So, in essence, it may as well say "Enhances Rate of Critical Hits" on the weapon?

Unless an actual +% crit rate would be treated differently.

No, it's essentially the opposite of a critical hit. Critical hits enhance the pDIF range of the damage function - 3x damage from relic doesn't touch pDIF, it triples the other half - the "DMG" part (WDMG+fSTR). You can have 3x hits without crits and vice-versa - they are completely independent of each other.

For those who aren't savvy at FFXI math, the maximum possible crit is equal to (D + fSTR) * 3, where D is the base damage of your weapon, and fSTR changes depending on the mob you're fighting.

He said the maximum possible normal crit was (D + fSTR) * 3, and he also said the formula for triple damage proc is (D + fSTR) * 3.

Yea, so if a crit and a 3x proc at the same time, you're essentially getting (D + fSTR) * 9, assuming Sneak Attack or Trick Attack wasn't used. The more general formula explains it better.

[Floor[(D + fSTR)*k] + p*DEX + q*AGI] * pDIF

where k=2.5 or 3 depending on the relic weapon, p = 1 if using Sneak Attack and 0 otherwise, and q = 1 if using Trick Attack and 0 otherwise.

With a 3x relic, and no SA or TA, this boils down to

[(D + fSTR)*3] * 3

for the max possible crit

That should be pretty nice for the 3x 2-handed relics. Not too bad for the 2.5x 2-handers either. I just feel sorry for the 2.5x 1-handers, though at least Mandau and probably a couple others are 3x.

E-peen as far as single hits and WS are concerned, at least. I've seen WARs with Bravura still use double axe. lol

[Lordwafik]

1. Does a Triple/Double Attack occurring on a WS hit modified by SA or TA have a chance at missing?

I'm wondering if I can miss a forced triple attack if using a 1x WS with SA or TA. I know mainhand and offhand strikes link together as 100% ACC when something like SA is used and a Kraken Club is offhanded. Since it's WS internal, I've only got the single DMG number and a TP percentage after the WS to key off of.

I'm assuming that a Triple Proc on a 1x WS will be 100% ACC due to the behavior of WS like True Strike. It seems that even with a 200 Club skill that a triple ATT on a SA+TS will always return a fairly tight number. I don't remember a time where True Strike missed one of it's TA procs.

I've used AC > MS and had only a 9% TP return before, SA causes the attack round to land, not necessarily the double/triple attack.

[Archain]

I've used AC > MS and had only a 9% TP return before, SA causes the attack round to land, not necessarily the double/triple attack.

Aye, I'm still so new with it that I'm not sure if I've ever seen it. It'd be hard for me to tell on a regular setup because I'm honestly not sure if it was DA (Brutal Earring or /WAR) or TA going off on a non AC weaponskill.

Feel free to shoot down the other ones too, I'm asking because I honestly don't know one way or the other yet, lol. I know questions from 4 or 5 WS is barely enough to get any real good reads from.

[aurik]

Unlike ranged attacks, under capped attack condition, melee damage on a crit still has a variable pdif (like 2.5-3.0, but high chance of 3.0).

[Croaker]

I'll parse against Archain one of these days with him on /WAR to settle it once and for all. He beats me by about 1% when we're both on /NIN

I predict he will outparse you by at least 10%.

10% as in 40-30? Or 10% as in 33-30? I could believe the latter; I remember guaging Wafik's damage output change when he went /nin to /war in the same camps (same other DDs, same bards, same rdms...pickup pts ftl) and it was somewhere around a 2-3% jump on the parser.

I was thinking 40-30. Could be less. It is still Mandau vs. Mandau.

I was remembering how my performace got boosted from THF/NIN to THF/WAR. As a Mandau THF/NIN I was happy to keep up with WAR/NIN in a parse. As THF/WAR my last parse against WAR/NIN was 50% me, 25%,25% them.

Berserk makes a huge difference. Archain will be getting full Mandau hits instead of having to average those hits with a lesser dagger. More Mandau hits, means more of those 3x damage attacks. He will also get a lot more double attacks.

Hate without shadows is an issue, but add in a WAR/NIN to the party who can voke at the start and follow with a trick attack and Archain should never take hate.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am very much looking forward to seeing it.