Relic 3x damage formula

[epigram]

I did a 1200 Onslaught once! Yay for crit + DA with /nin >.>;

[hotpiercedguy]

lol i luv sucking divisortheory's dick

Think 2099 isn't good on a bird? Ok then go beat it.

Like I said my current record is 2399.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4488/lulzds7.jpg
start sucking bitch.

oh, /nin again.

Oh wow. You beat Dancing Edge with Mercy stroke.

After that did you go punch a 5 year old in the face and say "OMG I M SO STRONG!"



I did 2399 with Dancing Edge. With a Blau Dolch.

I'll go ahead and unzip my pants now. It's your turn.


Edit: After thinking about it, I realized you did 98 more damage to a mob that was probably Tough.

With a Mandau.

With Mercy Stroke.

Yeah.........

[Sidanoir]

Ballista go! Nynja v Hotpiercedguy (lol)

Greater Colibri are VT
Abraxas are VT to IT

Greater Colibri are mushy wussy semi high evasion mobs

Abraxas are made of pwnage and have penalties for every weapon under the sun besides piercing...

You really can't compare WS damage...unless its same mob (at the same level) with same amount of hits (TP return) I mean is that a forced Triple Mercy Stroke vs a Non triple DE? Did off hand hits land?..
Only high level mob I know of without level variations is Hogoblin Angler (@80 flat)..although you can always go by exp and see what level that mob was..

Level is going to make a difference in damage, in addition to types of mobs..and actual TP return...

If you are going to get ZOMG soul voice buffs with 2-3 bards, and eat the best Meat, and proc guaranteed triple + all of this other unrealistic stuff then it doesnt seem like a proper fair comparison

Anyways I think average WS is more important than that one e peen shot...
Unless its D lord or something

I am pretty sure Mercy Stroke will out do dancing edge..

[divisortheory]

Edit: After thinking about it, I realized you did 98 more damage to a mob that was probably Tough.

lol get out of CoP and actually go party in ToAU areas before you say stupid shit like this. Greater Colibri are all VT/IT.

If you're trying to say that Dancing Edge can do more than Mercy Stroke, please get the weapon skill before you make that kind of assertion.

If you're trying to say that you personally can do more damage than someone with a mandau, full heca, and otherwise top of the line gear, I think you need your head checked.

If you're trying to say that a 2399 Dancing Edge is "pretty good", then congratulations you're right. I'm not sure why we're supposed to care though, since this thread has nothing to do with Dancing Edge.

Anyway, what kind of food were you using for that 2399?

[hotpiercedguy]

Edit: After thinking about it, I realized you did 98 more damage to a mob that was probably Tough.

lol get out of CoP and actually go party in ToAU areas before you say stupid shit like this. Greater Colibri are all VT/IT

Anyway, what kind of food were you using for that 2399?

I do XP in TaU a lot. I will admit I may be wrong on them being tough. I do not usually kill colibris (I just seem to remember them being tough) And like I said that 2399 was a long time ago. Before TaU existed when people used to xp in LOLufiese Meadows. I was probably using a courel sub or hedgehog pie. And yes a know food makes a big difference and some people do not eat food on colibri. But saying "I did 98 more damage then you with full relic hahahahahaha" Is pretty retarted.

[divisortheory]

But saying "I did 98 more damage then you with full relic hahahahahaha" Is pretty retarted.

It's a totally different mob, so not even a valid comparison. What if you did 2399 on Abraxas and I did 2497 on Tiamat? Could I gloat then?

I'll try to make a point to go out and get an epeen screenshot on an Abraxas one of these days for the sake of comparison. Was talking to Archain last night and apparently he got like 2100 on a troll. All 3 of us probably have the same gear so if he can get 2100 on a troll, I'm sure we can get 2.6k-3k on an Abraxas with a killer food like Red Curry combined with double Minuets and some luck with a double/triple offhand.

[Rocl]

But saying "I did 98 more damage then you with full relic hahahahahaha" Is pretty retarted.

It's a totally different mob, so not even a valid comparison. What if you did 2399 on Abraxas and I did 2497 on Tiamat? Could I gloat then?

If I was a melee I would never gloat about damage on EXP mobs, and only gloat about damage on HNMs.

So I'd be impressed if you did 2500dmg to Tiamat.

[Shuemue]

If I was a melee I would never gloat about damage on EXP mobs, and only gloat about damage on HNMs.

So I'd be impressed if you did 2500dmg to Tiamat.

Oh man, that's totally a pet peeve of mine, blm's who think they're the shit because they did a big nuke on a pudding. Big fucking whoop. Now go blow up a mob that matters.

[divisortheory]

Also, IT Abraxas Lv. 83 has 366 defense, you need 878 Attack to be capped on an IT Abraxas. If Dia III is used, you need 746.

My WS setup has like 420 base or something, add double minuets and I get 532. Add a Red Curry on top of that and I get 654. Pick a Lv. 80 Abraxas instead of a Lv. 83 Abraxas, and if the defense is 290 or lower (compared to 366 for the Lv. 83 version) my attack is capped. If Dia III is used, then the defense can be 341 (compared to 366 for the Lv. 83 version) and my attack will be capped. I'd put money on there being a greater than 25 defense difference between the Lv. 83 and Lv. 80 versions, so one could easily cap attack there with /NIN, making Berserk useless.

[suji]

If that were the case, then there wouldnt be any variance in most DE's from the same person, excluding double/triple procs.

Other folks said the same thing but the test has 99 weaponskills and not a single one of them have had a critical hit (takes a while to get TP on rabbits). The assumption is that the variance is coming from the normal pdif fluctuation and missed hits.

[NynJa]

Ballista go! Nynja v Hotpiercedguy (lol)

Greater Colibri are VT
Abraxas are VT to IT

Greater Colibri are mushy wussy semi high evasion mobs

Abraxas are made of pwnage and have penalties for every weapon under the sun besides piercing...

You really can't compare WS damage...unless its same mob (at the same level) with same amount of hits (TP return) I mean is that a forced Triple Mercy Stroke vs a Non triple DE? Did off hand hits land?..
Only high level mob I know of without level variations is Hogoblin Angler (@80 flat)..although you can always go by exp and see what level that mob was..

Level is going to make a difference in damage, in addition to types of mobs..and actual TP return...

If you are going to get ZOMG soul voice buffs with 2-3 bards, and eat the best Meat, and proc guaranteed triple + all of this other unrealistic stuff then it doesnt seem like a proper fair comparison

Anyways I think average WS is more important than that one e peen shot...
Unless its D lord or something

I am pretty sure Mercy Stroke will out do dancing edge..

his DE is probably his e-peen shot, fully buffed etc, and his averages are around 1100-1200. Like I said, he probably tripled on it, and got a bunch of crits.

My honest average on colibris, since I usually use SA or TA MS, is around 1400-1600.

Other folks said the same thing but the test has 99 weaponskills and not a single one of them have had a critical hit (takes a while to get TP on rabbits). The assumption is that the variance is coming from the normal pdif fluctuation and missed hits.

Well the lolBST a couple posts up with a lolGuttler says he's gotten a crit on Onslaught...

Maybe the first hit of a WS cant crit unless its TP mod states TP affects crit hit rate, but the other hits can crit. Its not like the extra hits in a multi hit WS follow the same formula as the first hit (ie: Rampage 0.5 mod on first hit).

If you seriously think crits cant happen in WS's unless you force em (MS, SA), you're on crack. Guillotines, DE's, and other multi hit WS's (and maybe even blu spells o.o) wolduld have a SMALL variance in damage on the same player w/ the same mob, but instead those WS's without any double/triple procs can vary in damage greatly. And don't tell me thats pDIF coming into play.

[shihei]

didnt someone on bahamut do 2k+ on KB with steel cyclone once?

[Naramaska]

[quote:c290d]
Other folks said the same thing but the test has 99 weaponskills and not a single one of them have had a critical hit (takes a while to get TP on rabbits). The assumption is that the variance is coming from the normal pdif fluctuation and missed hits.

Well the lolBST a couple posts up with a lolGuttler says he's gotten a crit on Onslaught...

Maybe the first hit of a WS cant crit unless its TP mod states TP affects crit hit rate, but the other hits can crit. Its not like the extra hits in a multi hit WS follow the same formula as the first hit (ie: Rampage 0.5 mod on first hit).

If you seriously think crits cant happen in WS's unless you force em (MS, SA), you're on crack. Guillotines, DE's, and other multi hit WS's (and maybe even blu spells o.o) wolduld have a SMALL variance in damage on the same player w/ the same mob, but instead those WS's without any double/triple procs can vary in damage greatly. And don't tell me thats pDIF coming into play.[/quote:c290d]

Maybe i'm thinking of a different post, but I was under the impression that the test was about BLU spells, whether or not they can crit, and whether or not Dissector's +crit% was affecting them.

[suji]

If you seriously think crits cant happen in WS's unless you force em (MS, SA), you're on crack. Guillotines, DE's, and other multi hit WS's (and maybe even blu spells o.o) wolduld have a SMALL variance in damage on the same player w/ the same mob, but instead those WS's without any double/triple procs can vary in damage greatly. And don't tell me thats pDIF coming into play.

I don't particularly believe one thing or another until I've seen enough evidence. I had considered your point that maybe the first hit is special and if that's true, all of the tests are pretty meaningless. That said, pdif fluctuation is pretty significant and shouldn't be underestimated. The gap between the possible minimum and maximum grows with each additional hit of a WS, so a 6 hit WS like DE has pretty significant variance.

Since you said this, I was curious and ran some numbers through the equations with these stats, which are loosely based on my gear:

fstr = 4 #blau fstr cap is 10. I'm mithra with 2/5 str, no n.head.
attack = 600
mobdef = 350
dex = 80+43
chr = 46 # lol

So the average DE ends up being around 1000~1300 assuming 100% accuracy. But if I locked in the pdif to test the min and max scenarios, we get DE min = 896 and DE max = 1390. And again, that's ignoring the variance that we see from missing hits and triples and what not.

So I'm not really convinced either way with respect to the crit test, but it definitely seems like pdif and accuracy variance can make a pretty huge impact on DE performance.

[Sidanoir]

Im pretty sure all WS can Critical hit...don't see why they wouldn't be able to..since they can Miss or hit...why not crit hit? We all know Sneak Attack (which technically is a beefed up crit) transers to a WS...

I think WS like Rampage simply INCREASE the chance at crit...by how much TP u have...

For instance most MNK parse around 15% crit....if they had a crit hit ws

at 100% tp it might add another 5%..

120%tp it might add another 10%..

IDK im just guessing but would seem strange that crits are removed during ws....

Not sure how to test this other than logging TP return for every single WS ...and I would think a DCish or EP mob would be better since you would crit them more

[Lordender]

meh WS damage are all about how lucky you get with a DA or TA. I mean here is one thats pretty insane, the name was cut off in the SS but it is old.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11.../fullswing.jpg

all i remember about that thread was he was a mnk that boosted up and SA'ed tiamat when it came down from a landing, pretty sure he had a brutal earring.

[Khamsin]

meh WS damage are all about how lucky you get with a DA or TA. I mean here is one thats pretty insane, the name was cut off in the SS but it is as old as when tiamat first came out.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11.../fullswing.jpg

all i remember about that thread was he was a mnk that boosted up and SA'ed tiamat when it came down from a landing.

Full Swing has a 5.0 modifier anyway, so with 300% TP and SA, and as MNK I assume he had ample STR gear, it's easy to do a lot of damage with it. Given that its a single hit WS he can afford more STR and Attack and less Accuracy, too.

[suji]

Im pretty sure all WS can Critical hit...don't see why they wouldn't be able to..since they can Miss or hit...why not crit hit? We all know Sneak Attack (which technically is a beefed up crit) transers to a WS...

I think most people would intuitively say the same thing, but SE isn't necessarily known for doing things intuitively.

Not sure how to test this other than logging TP return for every single WS ...and I would think a DCish or EP mob would be better since you would crit them more

The current test is to go to a newbie zone and bare DE the mobs. Disregard any TP returns of 1% and now you have a pretty solid crit test to see if the first hit of DE is going to critical. With a 10% or more critical hit rate and 99 weaponskills, the probability of not having a single crit on all of those is .9^99 = .0000295126 so it seems pretty likely that at *the very least*, the first hit is special in more ways than just ftp > 1.

Now if the first hit isn't treated specially, then you have your proof but the only idea I have other than blinding potions is to onlyl keep the 1% TP ones instead of the 5% TP ones. In the last 70 tests, there were 7 hits of TP 1%, none of which were critical (.9^7 = 47%) so maybe if they do about 700 WS or so we can get a better approximation. Who's bored?

btw, I'm not taking credit for this work at all. Just relaying the info.

[Croaker]

his DE is probably his e-peen shot, fully buffed etc, and his averages are around 1100-1200. Like I said, he probably tripled on it, and got a bunch of crits.

My honest average on colibris, since I usually use SA or TA MS, is around 1400-1600.

I agree. DE thf must be very lucky with all hits, crits.

My last parse with another THF in party. Fighting G. Colibri.

Me using Mercy. Average/High. 1451/2423
Other THF using DE. Average/High. 848/1575

Other THF got a DE that beat my average MS. I hope he got a screenshot.

[Khamsin]

How many hits is Mercy Stroke? And which relic WSs are multihit, and which are single hit?