Relic 3x damage formula

[divisortheory]

How many hits is Mercy Stroke? And which relic WSs are multihit, and which are single hit?

Mercy Stroke with /WAR - 1 hit
Mercy Stroke with /WAR + Double Attack - 2 hit
Mercy Stroke with /WAR + Triple Attack - 3 hit

Mercy Stroke with /NIN - 2 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Double Attack - 3 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Triple Attack - 4 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Double/Double - 4 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Double/Triple - 5 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Triple/Triple - 6 hits.

[aurik]

How many hits is Mercy Stroke? And which relic WSs are multihit, and which are single hit?

All are single-hit. Info @ wiki.

[Sidanoir]

How many hits is Mercy Stroke? And which relic WSs are multihit, and which are single hit?

Mercy Stroke with /WAR - 1 hit
Mercy Stroke with /WAR + Double Attack - 2 hit
Mercy Stroke with /WAR + Triple Attack - 3 hit

Mercy Stroke with /NIN - 2 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Double Attack - 3 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Triple Attack - 4 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Double/Double - 4 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Double/Triple - 5 hits
Mercy Stroke with /NIN + Triple/Triple - 6 hits.

Isn't the offhand hit with /NIN pretty weak compared to a normal WS hit in that it gets reduced mods or something?

[divisortheory]

Isn't the offhand hit with /NIN pretty weak compared to a normal WS hit in that it gets reduced mods or something?

Something like that, I forget the details. It still makes a huge difference in the final DMG amount though.

[draxyl]

The offhand also helps in the overall average for MS.

[Slott]

Well for the /nin hit, a) its not mandau hitting - the offhand is, so one step weaker there, and B) it's not stacked with SA or TA (since the main hand hit will get that).

To be fair, Mercy stroke unstacked with SA or TA blows for the most part and is relatively weak - which is what your offhand, double and triple attacks will experience. However, each additional hit will still consist of several hundred damage.

Plus if you're after epeen, a 6 hit mercy stroke (/nin triple/triple) will demolish a 3 hit /war berserk one... at least it has for me when with a bard... then again ive only gotten a triple/triple mercy to happen like...5 times? at least that i've noticed it, and a triple attack hit /war happens alot more often than a triple/triple /nin.

[Sidanoir]

Well for the /nin hit, a) its not mandau hitting - the offhand is, so one step weaker there, and B) it's not stacked with SA or TA (since the main hand hit will get that).

To be fair, Mercy stroke unstacked with SA or TA blows for the most part and is relatively weak - which is what your offhand, double and triple attacks will experience. However, each additional hit will still consist of several hundred damage.

Plus if you're after epeen, a 6 hit mercy stroke (/nin triple/triple) will demolish a 3 hit /war berserk one... at least it has for me when with a bard... then again ive only gotten a triple/triple mercy to happen like...5 times? at least that i've noticed it, and a triple attack hit /war happens alot more often than a triple/triple /nin.

Most single hit WS blow horse cock without SA...

Spinning Slash is /cry without SA (although i guess its still kind of "decent")
Ground Strike is /cry
Spiral Hell

Those are 3 WS that do really well stacked with SA and the right TP for spiral hell and ground strike but suck without SA (relatively speaking)

[Khamsin]

Well for the /nin hit, a) its not mandau hitting - the offhand is, so one step weaker there, and B) it's not stacked with SA or TA (since the main hand hit will get that).

To be fair, Mercy stroke unstacked with SA or TA blows for the most part and is relatively weak - which is what your offhand, double and triple attacks will experience. However, each additional hit will still consist of several hundred damage.

Plus if you're after epeen, a 6 hit mercy stroke (/nin triple/triple) will demolish a 3 hit /war berserk one... at least it has for me when with a bard... then again ive only gotten a triple/triple mercy to happen like...5 times? at least that i've noticed it, and a triple attack hit /war happens alot more often than a triple/triple /nin.

Most single hit WS blow horse cock without SA...

Spinning Slash is /cry without SA (although i guess its still kind of "decent")
Ground Strike is /cry
Spiral Hell

Those are 3 WS that do really well stacked with SA and the right TP for spiral hell and ground strike but suck without SA (relatively speaking)

Steel Cyclone and Full Swing do fairly well, too.

Steel Cyclone is nice since its easy to load up on VIT for it, in addition to some STR. e.g. Genbu's Kabuto (VIT+15) instead of Hecatomb Cap (only STR+11).

[NynJa]

Well for the /nin hit, a) its not mandau hitting - the offhand is, so one step weaker there, and B) it's not stacked with SA or TA (since the main hand hit will get that).

To be fair, Mercy stroke unstacked with SA or TA blows for the most part and is relatively weak - which is what your offhand, double and triple attacks will experience. However, each additional hit will still consist of several hundred damage.

Plus if you're after epeen, a 6 hit mercy stroke (/nin triple/triple) will demolish a 3 hit /war berserk one... at least it has for me when with a bard... then again ive only gotten a triple/triple mercy to happen like...5 times? at least that i've noticed it, and a triple attack hit /war happens alot more often than a triple/triple /nin.

Most single hit WS blow horse cock without SA...

Spinning Slash is /cry without SA (although i guess its still kind of "decent")
Ground Strike is /cry
Spiral Hell

Those are 3 WS that do really well stacked with SA and the right TP for spiral hell and ground strike but suck without SA (relatively speaking)

Steel Cyclone and Full Swing do fairly well, too.

Steel Cyclone is nice since its easy to load up on VIT for it, in addition to some STR.

I cant speak about Steel Cyclone, but Full Swing blows when not stacked.

[Khamsin]

Well for the /nin hit, a) its not mandau hitting - the offhand is, so one step weaker there, and B) it's not stacked with SA or TA (since the main hand hit will get that).

To be fair, Mercy stroke unstacked with SA or TA blows for the most part and is relatively weak - which is what your offhand, double and triple attacks will experience. However, each additional hit will still consist of several hundred damage.

Plus if you're after epeen, a 6 hit mercy stroke (/nin triple/triple) will demolish a 3 hit /war berserk one... at least it has for me when with a bard... then again ive only gotten a triple/triple mercy to happen like...5 times? at least that i've noticed it, and a triple attack hit /war happens alot more often than a triple/triple /nin.

Most single hit WS blow horse cock without SA...

Spinning Slash is /cry without SA (although i guess its still kind of "decent")
Ground Strike is /cry
Spiral Hell

Those are 3 WS that do really well stacked with SA and the right TP for spiral hell and ground strike but suck without SA (relatively speaking)

Steel Cyclone and Full Swing do fairly well, too.

Steel Cyclone is nice since its easy to load up on VIT for it, in addition to some STR.

I cant speak about Steel Cyclone, but Full Swing blows when not stacked.

I meant, with SA and 300%TP.

[Ryko]

Spinning Slash is /cry without SA (although i guess its still kind of "decent")

Spinning slash is a truck wtf are you talking about <_<

[Tdizzle]

But saying "I did 98 more damage then you with full relic hahahahahaha" Is pretty retarted.

It's a totally different mob, so not even a valid comparison. What if you did 2399 on Abraxas and I did 2497 on Tiamat? Could I gloat then?

I'll try to make a point to go out and get an epeen screenshot on an Abraxas one of these days for the sake of comparison. Was talking to Archain last night and apparently he got like 2100 on a troll. All 3 of us probably have the same gear so if he can get 2100 on a troll, I'm sure we can get 2.6k-3k on an Abraxas with a killer food like Red Curry combined with double Minuets and some luck with a double/triple offhand.

I did over 2k on a NM trol with TA+DE onry (in sig). Does that make me cool?

[Sidanoir]

Spinning Slash is /cry without SA (although i guess its still kind of "decent")

Spinning slash is a truck wtf are you talking about <_<

It is a good WS, but if sub WAR i far prefer scythe >.> Guillotine > Spinning Slash..
Spinning Slash for 700ish average without /THF and SA or 1250+ with SA .. pretty big to me (although I admit I havent used it in a long time so numbers are probably off)

But with SA Spinning Slash >.> Guillotine (generally)..
Hope that makes more sense now..

Steel Cyclone is in same boat as spinning slash imho...pretty good without SA but a MONSTER with SA

[divisortheory]

I did over 2k on a NM trol with TA+DE onry (in sig). Does that make me cool?

Possibly, but I'm only familiar with the trolls that you merit on, I've never actually fought that thing.

[NynJa]

I did over 2k on a NM trol with TA+DE onry (in sig). Does that make me cool?

Possibly, but I'm only familiar with the trolls that you merit on, I've never actually fought that thing.

its 3 NM's that spawn together, when they're all up they're buff as fuck (hitting 0 w/ meat and a minuet isnt uncommon), but when one dies, the other two get hella weak.

[Khamsin]

I did over 2k on a NM trol with TA+DE onry (in sig). Does that make me cool?

Possibly, but I'm only familiar with the trolls that you merit on, I've never actually fought that thing.

its 3 NM's that spawn together, when they're all up they're buff as fuck (hitting 0 w/ meat and a minuet isnt uncommon), but when one dies, the other two get hella weak.

So, Tdizzle, was that number from when all three NMs were up?

[divisortheory]

I'll parse against Archain one of these days with him on /WAR to settle it once and for all. He beats me by about 1% when we're both on /NIN

I predict he will outparse you by at least 10%.

10% as in 40-30? Or 10% as in 33-30? I could believe the latter; I remember guaging Wafik's damage output change when he went /nin to /war in the same camps (same other DDs, same bards, same rdms...pickup pts ftl) and it was somewhere around a 2-3% jump on the parser.

I was thinking 40-30. Could be less. It is still Mandau vs. Mandau.

I was remembering how my performace got boosted from THF/NIN to THF/WAR. As a Mandau THF/NIN I was happy to keep up with WAR/NIN in a parse. As THF/WAR my last parse against WAR/NIN was 50% me, 25%,25% them.

Berserk makes a huge difference. Archain will be getting full Mandau hits instead of having to average those hits with a lesser dagger. More Mandau hits, means more of those 3x damage attacks. He will also get a lot more double attacks.

Read it and weep folks. First time I've ever beat him.

http://kalia.ultimals.com/mandau/THFNINvsTHFWAR.jpg

The fact that trolls have pretty high defense means Berserk was actually giving him a lot of bang for his buck. This leads me to believe the gap would only get wider were we parsing on Colibri, where I'm closer to reaching the Attack cap without Berserk. I usually take March/Min, but in a Double Minuet setting on colibri seems to me like THF/NIN would destroy THF/WAR, because not only would berserk be more or less wasted, THF/NIN would be hitting a lot faster.

Feel free to ask about gear setups, but we both have pretty much everything the best you can get with only a few minor differences on each side.

[NynJa]

I was gonna do something like this actually. xp for 1hr as thf/nin, then warp out, change to thf/war, and do an hour like that.

I'm waiting for someone to go "THER R GEAR/MERIT DIFFERENCES".

[Sidanoir]

Thats a close parse and can be that you win for a couple of stupid reasons like..
Was Archain slow to engage compared to you? Did he get cure locked while engaging a lot? Did he have any deaths in parser? Were you using Mercy Stroke at 1%? :O Was he lolVoking!
Just curious as to how confident you are that it was the Subjob which made the difference in the parse and not other factors like the ones mentioned above..it might be more beneficial as Nynja said to /WAR yourself and compare to /NIN in same PT

[Archain]

In XP I think I do better with a NIN subjob, it's very hard to tell though because I'm slightly wary of doing SA+MS when subbing WAR, lol.

4% ACC difference over the two parties I've parsed due to both a difference in the length of the party (shorter party usually shows me at higher ACC) and the lack of +5ACC from an offhand Blau Dolch. Here's two shots below to compare against myself (there's a slight error due to party length, but it would have smoothed out to something fairly close anyway).

http://www.infieldpress.com/parser/8...N%20Subjob.JPG

The real killer on /WAR was the TP gain, regular single strikes (without TA or DA proc) mean it takes a while for me to build the TP to WS. Many times I'd either get stopped by an enemy transition (peace/attack mode change), Warcry/Minuet/Haste/Heal freeze, or a Diamondhide would deadend hits into stoneskin preventing TP gain.