Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

[Evelyn]

two things about Therin's torques:

1) none of them directly benefit rng, cor, or brd (I think). so on those, people would be complaining "ZOMG why no RATK ; ;"

2) as a RDM, I'd still take +skill torques over the mage torque you listed. I can get enough INT/MND on other pieces when I need them (mahatma slops/hpl. and rings already get me +28). MAcc isn't an issue since I don't really need it outside HNM, even then I can usually land with staves unless its impossible to do so (slow on ouryu etc.) or otherwise broken. MAB sucks on RDM, +MP is a waste without +HP on my current setup, and -enmity can be found on other pieces, and merits are usually enough.

I can also see people complaining about that melee torque making /nin wars even more broken, since they wouldn't have to choose which weapons to puff like with sea torques. And some jobs, especially RNG and SAM, wouldn't (I don't think) see much benefit for that over sea torque.

Never been a tank, so I don't know about the sexiness of the tank torque.

[Jeryhn]

What I'd really like to see is a permanent runic portal pass. That would be amazing.

This should be a reward for completing all Assault missions, rather than ToAU storyline missions.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Valhalla Necklace (named after Odin): Lv75 Neck, All Jobs
Raises all native weapon skills by 10, Adds Regen effect.

Judgment Necklace (named after Alexander): Lv75 Neck, All Jobs
Raises all native magic skills by 10, Adds Refresh effect.

I think it would make more sense if Alexander's was the physical one, and Odin's was the magical one. The game seems to treat HP stuff as light, MP stuff as dark, BLM gets more MP than WHM, DRK has higher magic skills than PLD, etc. However, Odin is animated a lot like a fighter, but we don't really know what Alex's powers will be.

...Or maybe I'm just pissed that us SMNs were grouped with the 2 hippie casters for Salvage gear. RDM should've been there!

Rather than gear, I would really like to see some new character ability opened up with the completion of ToAU. Whether it be more merits available in already existing categories, more merits in new categories (+ movement speed, anyone?), one added special ability for your job (i.e. BLM casting Ultima, SMN being able to summon Alexander), whatever.

They would probably have to start small to test how people would react to that. Something like (not I don't mean all of these, I'm just giving an example of working their way up): INT Boost (Bland thing you see on lv1 gear) -> Extra Magic Atk. Bonus (your job's "bonus" trait) -> Conserve MP upgrade (More unique, but old techniques) -> lolMagic Boost + (Some trait you rarely see) -> New Job Ability (pet commands/job traits for certain jobs I guess)-> Meteor (or weapon skill for melees or another job ability for tanks). If they just started by giving people new spells, you'd probably get a whole bunch of whiners. But other than that, new stuff that don't take up space or merits would be great.

On a side-note (focusing more on what should be in the update), they should give BST a mid-level (or high-level) ability called "Possess" which charms "greater" monsters (manticores, rocs, maybe even some undead like hounds) and a high-level (or merit) ability called "Hypnotize" which charms sentient beings (particularly beastmen, as stuff like mandragora and flan would be covered in Possess), or simply add them as job traits.

As for PUP, I think SE wanted them to be backline jobs (hence why they got mage gear) and to use their H2H skill when their automaton is down. But now they see that people are treating it more like the link between BST and DRG they are going to start to give them far eastern gear and other light melee gear.

[Evelyn]

Permenant pass would be great, but even a bulk pass like manaclipper would be nice.

[Tordall]

What I'd really like to see is a permanent runic portal pass. That would be amazing.

This should be a reward for completing all Assault missions, rather than ToAU storyline missions.

Yar, there needs to be a reason to complete all Assault missions. As we've seen a bunch of times no one does anything vaguely hard unless there's a nice reward at the end of it.

[Therin]

1) none of them directly benefit rng, cor, or brd (I think). so on those, people would be complaining "ZOMG why no RATK ; ;"

This is a good point. Didn't think of that. =/

[miokomioko]

I just wish there was questable job-specific abilities/spells/traits. Meriting is boring, quests are fun and usually interesting.

ie: like a beefier AF-style quest for a new JA.

There are questable spells and all, but they are never ex. So having learned it does not mean you earned it. Just bought it. Imagine there was a whole new catagory of merit-style JAs/BPs/Spells/Traits, but they each required a gnarly and drawn out quest to obtain and requirement was 75 in said job.

Waking the Beast lv.75 ally fights against the 6 elemental avatars would be a good example of what I'm thinking, but if each those fights granted that avatar's catagory 2 Blood Pact.

[Eddie]

Mobs should zone.

[Jeryhn]

Mobs should zone.

Vrtra into East Ronfaure?

:D

[divisortheory]

I could see them doing waist or back items for ToAU. Doubt they'll do ranged, ammo, or neck though. An ammo with +5% haste would be nice though :D

[Ayn]

Mobs should zone.

On the way back from helping a friend unlock his Sapara of trials, the Mamool were preparing to invade the city. The BRD (Vile) who was with us decided to stay behind with me, while we attempted to pick off besieged mobs.

They took a few hits. Then they ran to the zone.

Yes that's right.

In Soviet Whitegate, MOB ZONES YOU.

[Eddie]

+3 for the Fam Guy ref.

[Tajin]

Mobs should zone.

Vrtra into Batallia Downs?

:D

8)

[Khamsin]

mandragora and flan would be covered in Possess), or simply add them as job traits.

Mandragora can be charmed already.

As for PUP, I think SE wanted them to be backline jobs (hence why they got mage gear) and to use their H2H skill when their automaton is down.

There's really no reason for a PUP to ever be on the back line. It's not as if they can rest while their automaton fights, so its pointless to go /WHM or any mage sub. Even if you do, what are you going to do, stand around doing nothing during the fight? Unlike mage jobs, who can rest mid-fight and for whom meleeing would interfere with their performance, PUPs don't have anything holding them back from fighting along side their automaton.

In fact, I believe the intent was for PUP to fight alongside with their automaton and be a significant portion of the damage. Some people who don't seem to understand PUP suggest the automaton should do all the damage, while the PUP stands back, but you're cutting out 2/3 of your damage output by doing that. The PUP should not eclipse his automaton, nor should the automaton eclipse the PUP. It's not DRG (where master >>> pet), its not SMN (where pet >>> master), it's somewhere in between, where the master = pet.

As it is, I have the best gear a PUP can use short of usukane (which I am actively farming for), and all the attachments except some of the 4 newest ones (Schurzen, etc.), and in an average Greater Colibri merit PT I parse about twice the damage as my Sharpshot. You make me into a back line job and how does that help me? Now, if my automaton did twice the damage as me, then there might be something to it. But even then you're cutting a significant portion of your damage output without adding anything in return since you can't rest and deploy your automaton at the same time.

[Bardlet]

Jeryhn's idea would pretty much make all Sea Torques useless, though. <_< Well, aside from the +stats which could be useful for macroing in (Fortitude for VIT, Justice for STR, and Prudence for INT).

But yeah, I like the idea of neckpieces.

Maybe something along these lines:

Melee Torque:

STR +5, Accuracy +5, Attack +5, Store TP +5, Haste +3%

Tank Torque:

HP +20, VIT +5, Shield Skill +10, Parrying Skill +10, Enmity +3

Mage Torque:

MP +20, INT +5, MND +5, M. Atk Bonus +5, M. Acc +5, Enmity -3

In all likelihood, however, they won't give us any of this, and instead will let use our Glory Crowns, which will give some sort of base stat and skill increase depending on your main job.

And it'll be so potent that EVERYONE will wear it, so that we have Walahra Turban v2.0 everywhere.

GAH put some freaking CHR on it for chrissakes! BRD got boned on CoP ring, that was enough. ;-;

[Eddie]

They need to added a new drink called, Beer.

Raises fishing skill by +10 for an hour duration.

[Damane]

I would like to see more enhancing skill+ gear with addition barspell points/potency + equipment. my whm is sitting on 252 enhancing skill maximum (missing the sea cape for additional 5 enhancing skill) and I would realy like to enhance my barspell points further. 120 barpoints in elemental resistence isnt enough :/. I could merit enhancing skill, but I rather have the points on enfeebling magic. 150 barpoints would be nice :D.

There is only 4 pieces of equip for whm that give you + enhancing skill. And one of them with +10 is the WHM AF2 feets ¬.¬. Give me more magical resistance/magic defense to my spells . as a note I think RDM have a cap of 256 enhancing skill... god why do whms get a C+ on enhancing magic skill, this makes no sense to me, since we are the only job with the AoE barspells. A whm with no merits and no AF2 legs has lesser barpoints on his barspells then a RDM, assumeing both have capped enhancing magic. I dont see the logic in this.

[Kenai]

I imagine that ToAU will have a nice set of capes of some sort available if the Glory Crown has nothing to do with it. Then of course, I would be happy with Birdman Cape...

And ya, no point in calling a PUP a backline job when there's no point other than avoiding AoE. In fact, usually a back line PUP is very detrimental, vs one who is meleeing. There is absolutely no benefit to hanging back ither than avoiding AoE, so why push the idea? Just let me sub NIN like everyone else.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Mandragora can be charmed already.

lmao... Can't believe I forgot from when I leveled BST 1-5 and made bees and mandies fight each other and then had some guy stalk me. Anyway, the point I was trying to get across was sentient non-beastmen.

There's really no reason for a PUP to ever be on the back line. It's not as if they can rest while their automaton fights, so its pointless to go /WHM or any mage sub. Even if you do, what are you going to do, stand around doing nothing during the fight? Unlike mage jobs, who can rest mid-fight and for whom meleeing would interfere with their performance, PUPs don't have anything holding them back from fighting along side their automaton.

In fact, I believe the intent was for PUP to fight alongside with their automaton and be a significant portion of the damage. Some people who don't seem to understand PUP suggest the automaton should do all the damage, while the PUP stands back, but you're cutting out 2/3 of your damage output by doing that. The PUP should not eclipse his automaton, nor should the automaton eclipse the PUP. It's not DRG (where master >>> pet), its not SMN (where pet >>> master), it's somewhere in between, where the master = pet.

As it is, I have the best gear a PUP can use short of usukane (which I am actively farming for), and all the attachments except some of the 4 newest ones (Schurzen, etc.), and in an average Greater Colibri merit PT I parse about twice the damage as my Sharpshot. You make me into a back line job and how does that help me? Now, if my automaton did twice the damage as me, then there might be something to it. But even then you're cutting a significant portion of your damage output without adding anything in return since you can't rest and deploy your automaton at the same time.

Remember, SE gave a job 2 spells that would allow one to significantly nullify damage, yet did not intend for them to be a defender job. But still, why did PUP get so much mage gear?... What, did they change it from Necro. (its original form, but then day/night stuff came into play so they decided to change it, which makes no sense since SMNs can have thunder elementals during a sandstorm) to maybe doll mages (as seen in SMN AF quests and other Windy-related content) to PUP but they forgot to change the gear they had?

I do agree with you on it being closer to 50/50, but I'm not so sure that's what SE had in mind...

Also, where would you consider BST to be pet/master wise? Obviously not at either end (Pet>Master or Master>Pet). BST can be considered more pet-reliant since it can use pets more frequently (after one is defeated or released), yet they have more melee gear and higher combat skills.

[Khamsin]

Mandragora can be charmed already.

lmao... Can't believe I forgot from when I leveled BST 1-5 and made bees and mandies fight each other and then had some guy stalk me. Anyway, the point I was trying to get across was sentient non-beastmen.


[quote:04aa9]There's really no reason for a PUP to ever be on the back line. It's not as if they can rest while their automaton fights, so its pointless to go /WHM or any mage sub. Even if you do, what are you going to do, stand around doing nothing during the fight? Unlike mage jobs, who can rest mid-fight and for whom meleeing would interfere with their performance, PUPs don't have anything holding them back from fighting along side their automaton.

In fact, I believe the intent was for PUP to fight alongside with their automaton and be a significant portion of the damage. Some people who don't seem to understand PUP suggest the automaton should do all the damage, while the PUP stands back, but you're cutting out 2/3 of your damage output by doing that. The PUP should not eclipse his automaton, nor should the automaton eclipse the PUP. It's not DRG (where master >>> pet), its not SMN (where pet >>> master), it's somewhere in between, where the master = pet.

As it is, I have the best gear a PUP can use short of usukane (which I am actively farming for), and all the attachments except some of the 4 newest ones (Schurzen, etc.), and in an average Greater Colibri merit PT I parse about twice the damage as my Sharpshot. You make me into a back line job and how does that help me? Now, if my automaton did twice the damage as me, then there might be something to it. But even then you're cutting a significant portion of your damage output without adding anything in return since you can't rest and deploy your automaton at the same time.

Remember, SE gave a job 2 spells that would allow one to significantly nullify damage, yet did not intend for them to be a defender job. But still, why did PUP get so much mage gear?... What, did they change it from Necro. (its original form, but then day/night stuff came into play so they decided to change it, which makes no sense since SMNs can have thunder elementals during a sandstorm) to maybe doll mages (as seen in SMN AF quests and other Windy-related content) to PUP but they forgot to change the gear they had?

I do agree with you on it being closer to 50/50, but I'm not so sure that's what SE had in mind...

Also, where would you consider BST to be pet/master wise? Obviously not at either end (Pet>Master or Master>Pet). BST can be considered more pet-reliant since it can use pets more frequently (after one is defeated or released), yet they have more melee gear and higher combat skills.[/quote:04aa9]

My guess on the mage gear was not so much that it was mage gear, but rather that it wasn't melee gear. MNK also didn't have any good melee gear to choose from at first, being forced into doublets and tunics until the "gi" style armor was introduced later. The reason I think PUP is ultimately intended to be a melee is due to their armor progression. Low levels all they get is doublets, tunics, mage gear, etc. That doesn't necessarily make them a mage, afterall RNGs can wear Vermillion Cloaks, too, if they wanted. However, at upper levels they get access to Pahluwan and Usukane, which are undoubtedly melee oriented. They do not progress into Marduk or Morrigan, nor Yigit.

I think in the future, there will be low-mid level PUP armor introduced like there was for MNK (SAM already had access to heavier armor, and NIN had chainmail) and there is still plenty of room for melee adjustments.

I do not believe for a moment, though, that SE's vision of PUP upon release was as a backline job. Maybe early in development, if the rumors are true about them simply "forgetting" to change their armor class upon a last minute switch from Necro to Puppetmaster, but as it stands they are most definitely aiming PUP in the melee direction.